gm_zombiewall, Near Release - Developers

[i]Low on ammunitions, hiding behind a makeshift wall that may as well be falling apart, with help nowhere in sight. You look down the short road, at the open garage door. The sounds of your killers resonate through the husk of the old building, who knows what it used to be. You look towards your simple gate. Probably the strongest part of this shabby wall you've put together. You dare not open it, because you know something is wrong with the generator. You may never be able to close it again. Your head is drawn to the table of weapons. This is all you have to fight off the horde, unless you go out into the field to scavenge for more... will you risk it? [b]Will you survive this apocalypse?[/b][/i] -What you see here is a result of me having to nmuch time on my hands. Heyo. Today I will be showing some work of a map that I am making, it is nearly finished, but I'd like to know how people think of it, so I don't release a map everyone thinks looks absolutely horrible. Though in my eyes, it is the best map I've made so far. So, without further aoudew, however you spell that, here's some pics of gm_zombiewall, (I'm thinking of a better name.) But wait! Yes, these pictures are dark, they are all ingame. The final product may be slightly brighter. [IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/350m4yb.jpg[/IMG] Early picture of the wall, behind it is where you spawn. [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/k2bj9i.jpg[/IMG] This is one of the button to open the gate... more info on it later. [IMG]http://i51.tinypic.com/15zggwn.jpg[/IMG] The side of the gate after pressing the button. The button creates sparks after the gate is opened. [IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/2954sax.jpg[/IMG] A corpse in the zombie spawn. You CANNOT enter the zombie spawn, only NPCs can. But that corpse is a nice touch, don't you think? [IMG]http://i51.tinypic.com/2m6vajr.jpg[/IMG] This is a very hard-to-see image, I forgot to turn my flashlight on. [b]LARGER PICTURE LINKS[/b] [url]http://i51.tinypic.com/ofd01.jpg[/url] - This goes to a fullbright picture of the wall. [url]http://i55.tinypic.com/2mpz8qx.jpg[/url] - Shows the wall at night, part of it anyways, with the door open. So, many things are subject to change. I may completely renew that old building with the holes in it, because it doesn't look to appealing at the moment. So, all I ask for is early feedback, and maybe ideas. Also, ask any questions if you want. This map will most likely be completed in the next 1-2 weeks. Also, sooner or later, I'll add a 3D skybox. Better than just simple old brick walls, eh? [b]NOTE, THIS MAP REQUIRES EP. 2[/b]

is this for a gamemode?

No. Its just a zombie survival map on its own. Not part of any gamemode.

Looks blocky and lacks detail

[QUOTE=GameDev;29360383]Looks blocky and lacks detail[/QUOTE] The wall is heavily detailed, and not blocky, really. Though the building is blocky and lacks detail, its not done, I very recently added it. And the open area is not done either. I'm still adding props, decals, and possibly another small building. Though, its my fault I didn't take better pics of the wall. What exactly do you say is blocky? The whole thing? [editline]22nd April 2011[/editline] Here's a fullbright picture of the wall, so you can see it better... No, the map will not be fullbright when released, this was just so you can see the wall. [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2a6wiet.jpg[/IMG] There will be a larger pic in the OP.

I need bigger pictures, can't really see that map too well.

Alright, I'll make links to larger pics. I used small ones so it would be too cluttery. A note to the people rating it dumb: Will you actually say WHY you rated it dumb instead of clicking the button and leaving? You really don't help by not telling why you think its dumb.

It's being rated dumb because it's poorly made. I'm wondering if you're a Quid Pro Troll, reminiscent of the famous Kyras. Whatever, in summary it's bad. Bad texturing, small, no 3d skybox (which for a map this small you should already have in, no excuses), bad lighting, bad everything. This is the kind of thing you ask for criticism on to learn what you should be doing, not something you release. Don't release it. Please don't. Please.

[QUOTE=Zanarias;29362103]It's being rated dumb because it's poorly made. I'm wondering if you're a Quid Pro Troll, reminiscent of the famous Kyras. Whatever, in summary it's bad. Bad texturing, small, no 3d skybox (which for a map this small you should already have in, no excuses), bad lighting, bad everything. This is the kind of thing you ask for criticism on to learn what you should be doing, not something you release. Don't release it. Please don't. Please.[/QUOTE] And your telling me I'm the troll. Here, let me tell you why you need to learn how to read. 1.) IN THE OP IT SAYS I WILL BE ADDING A 3D SKYBOX SOON 2.) ITS SMALL BECAUSE ITS A SINGLEPLAYER SEEHOWLONGYOUCANSURVIVE TYPE GAME 3.) Yes, I know parts are badly textures, especially the ramshackle little building, which I'M DELETING, also in the OP. 4.) As for the lighting, its dark, its bad, its not SUPPOSED TO LOOK UBER COOL, Its supposed to suck, one of the lights flickers, the other goes out at random, all on purpose. Three lights in the level, lack of light, in my opinion, is good for, you know, NIGHT TIME ZOMBIE MAPS. And the don't release it, please don't, please, if you took okk the last two parts, and just said don't release it, then I would view you a little less as an ass hole. THE MAP ISN'T EVEN DONE, so its not going to look the like Mona Lisa. 2-3 weeks before its ready to be released. Do you look at all maps that aren't released yet, and aren't done, and expect a masterpiece? In fact, some mappers don't texture at all until they have all there building done, they just simply use dev textures. Though I can't name them. I do not know what a Quid Pro Troll is, and I don't know who Kyras is. Criticism is nice, but when you come out, and don't tell me what I should improve, just that everything is horrible, thats being an ass, not a critic. But fine, I won't release it. My friends said it looked nice, I should see how Facepunch reacted. Well I guess that was a bad idea, eh?

It lacks realism. Add details around the area as well as in it. Make it larger. Give the player a choice where to set up. Make it different to every other map you see like yours. Right. You won't listen to the people above you, so lets break it down shall we. If you don't like honesty, don't post here. We are not going to be nice, we are going to say what we think. That's where we differ from friends. Friends will be kind, or they will think it is good because it's better than what they can do. You said this is near release, yet you are apparently changing everything. What is the point of posting this here? You also won't take criticism. What is the point of posting this here?

[QUOTE=IronPhoenix;29362284]It lacks realism. Add details around the area as well as in it. Make it larger. Give the player a choice where to set up. Make it different to every other map you see like yours.[/QUOTE] See, that was nice. Details are going in right now, aswell as said 3D skybox. I was working on the general structure. Alright, I'll make it larger. I'll make options. I'll make a few different places you can defend. I build up the base of the map first, i.e. structures and such, then displacements, if there are any, then props and other details, and then make revisions, thats the reason it lacks realism right now. The only props are the weapons, parts of the wall, and a truck with some supplies in it, because I'm not done with the base of it.

Expand it a bit and add a couple small areas of a hideout or standoff area like the Antlion Guard boss fight hiding bit. Add these, also; -Couple of random cars, maybe a car crashed, on fire with a corpse inside or beside it -A way for zombies to spawn without just popping up (i.e. an alleyway that you can't enter (playerclip)) and they spawn round a corner) -Burning buildings in the skybox, it adds to the genericism (I know that sounds bad, but hey, it's better than nothing!) -Fog! Not too much but not too bare -A way that looks like a reasonable explanation for your arrival in the location

[QUOTE=Jrose14;29362475]See, that was nice. Details are going in right now, aswell as said 3D skybox. I was working on the general structure. Alright, I'll make it larger. I'll make options. I'll make a few different places you can defend. I build up the base of the map first, i.e. structures and such, then displacements, if there are any, then props and other details, and then make revisions, thats the reason it lacks realism right now. The only props are the weapons, parts of the wall, and a truck with some supplies in it, because I'm not done with the base of it.[/QUOTE] Then it probably wasn't a good idea to show anything until you were past the stage where you were still changing things. As an example, no one is going to see a glimmer of my portal 2 campaign till it's good and ready.

[QUOTE=Jrose14;29362274]And your telling me I'm the troll. Here, let me tell you why you need to learn how to read. 1.) IN THE OP IT SAYS I WILL BE ADDING A 3D SKYBOX SOON 2.) ITS SMALL BECAUSE ITS A SINGLEPLAYER SEEHOWLONGYOUCANSURVIVE TYPE GAME 3.) Yes, I know parts are badly textures, especially the ramshackle little building, which I'M DELETING, also in the OP. 4.) As for the lighting, its dark, its bad, its not SUPPOSED TO LOOK UBER COOL, Its supposed to suck, one of the lights flickers, the other goes out at random, all on purpose. Three lights in the level, lack of light, in my opinion, is good for, you know, NIGHT TIME ZOMBIE MAPS. And the don't release it, please don't, please, if you took okk the last two parts, and just said don't release it, then I would view you a little less as an ass hole. THE MAP ISN'T EVEN DONE, so its not going to look the like Mona Lisa. 2-3 weeks before its ready to be released. Do you look at all maps that aren't released yet, and aren't done, and expect a masterpiece? In fact, some mappers don't texture at all until they have all there building done, they just simply use dev textures. Though I can't name them. I do not know what a Quid Pro Troll is, and I don't know who Kyras is. Criticism is nice, but when you come out, and don't tell me what I should improve, just that everything is horrible, thats being an ass, not a critic. But fine, I won't release it. My friends said it looked nice, I should see how Facepunch reacted. Well I guess that was a bad idea, eh?[/QUOTE] I'll go ahead and expand further on why your map is bad, and why you need to learn to read. 1.) I said there's no excuse in a map this small to not already have a 3d skybox. You are clearly releasing information and photos too early if you don't have this 3d skybox. I implied that I read your comment about the skybox, but apparently that implication was not powerful enough for you. 2.) There's a difference between SEEHOWLONGYOUCANSURVIVE TYPE GAME and claustrophobic. Yours is the latter, and that's not fun. 3.) If you know they are badly textured and you haven't fixed them yet you shouldn't be releasing photos of those exact textures. Twah? 4.) There's a difference between straight out -bad lighting- (which is what yours is) to purposely dark, yet strategically placed and powerful "dark" lighting (where you aren't required to use your flashlight 24/7). If your lighting was proper, you'd have a sense of ominousness, a sense of foreboding. With your lighting I feel like I should puke. Your problem is that you suggested this was very close to release. If you are close to release, you should at that point have proper lighting, proper textures, be very close to the finalization of structures and buildings and generally be only changing small details. Since instead you're doing all of those things, and you are over 2-3 weeks away(!?, that's not 1-2 weeks) from release, then why do you say it's "near release?" I told you how to improve, but because I put it bluntly yet truthfully you chose to ignore it. And regarding your last portion, if you aren't willing to take proper criticism, then don't post these threads. You and generally everyone has to be willing to take honest criticism in order to improve. If you can't handle the heat, then release anyway and take the hateful comments and trash talk later, and finish off with a bad map. I'd rather help you out now than berate you later. EDIT: I'll even go into specifics, since I realized that I really didn't point out direct issues. Your brick texture is repetitive and not representative of the area. Why would there be a random brick fence (basically what it is) in the middle of nowhere? Is it part of a larger facility? It's an unfitting texture because you haven't elaborated in the map enough of what that area really is. Your wall is not heavily detailed. It IS the most detailed portion of your map, but it doesn't tell a story. Who built it? Since it's so sporadic, where are left over materials that couldn't be incorporated into the defense? Why is this advanced button keypad on a really weird wooden gate? Where does that gate lead? There's no suggestion of where it would open up to because your area is badly defined. And additionally, why are awkward light emplacements embedded in the brick? Why is there a special force stopping me from entering the zombie spawn in this SEEHOWLONGYOUCANSURVIVE TYPE GAME map? You want your map to be good, you need to tell a story. And that's through proper detail.

It's a wall. .....Which could be expanded upon. You could: 1. Place some foliage, perhaps turn the ground brushes into displacements, anything to help clutter the area and make things seem less repetitive. 2. Learn about 3D skyboxes, turn that bland brick enclosure into a nice perdy wall, get some buildings/foliage in the 3D skybox (outside of the player-accessible area). That's all I've really got. There isn't much to work with here I'm sorry to say.

[QUOTE=Black-Ice;29362599]Expand it a bit and add a couple small areas of a hideout or standoff area like the Antlion Guard boss fight hiding bit. Add these, also; -Couple of random cars, maybe a car crashed, on fire with a corpse inside or beside it -A way for zombies to spawn without just popping up (i.e. an alleyway that you can't enter (playerclip)) and they spawn round a corner) -Burning buildings in the skybox, it adds to the genericism (I know that sounds bad, but hey, it's better than nothing!) -Fog! Not too much but not too bare -A way that looks like a reasonable explanation for your arrival in the location[/QUOTE] I don't understand the antlion guard part, its a zombie map. :P, but zombies do spawn without popping up. Fast Zombies spawn on high locations you can't see and jump down, torso's, which I'll add only a few, because they are boring enemies, spawn in low areas you can't reach by crouching, along with headcrabs. Normal Zombies spawn opposite of the wall, on the other side of the map, in a small area the player cannot reach. And... why would zombies burn buildings? xD Fogs a good idea, and a reasonable explanation I'll need to think of. [editline]22nd April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Zanarias;29363038]I'll go ahead and expand further on why your map is bad, and why you need to learn to read. 1.) I said there's no excuse in a map this small to not already have a 3d skybox. You are clearly releasing information and photos too early if you don't have this 3d skybox. I implied that I read your comment about the skybox, but apparently that implication was not powerful enough for you. 2.) There's a difference between SEEHOWLONGYOUCANSURVIVE TYPE GAME and claustrophobic. Yours is the latter, and that's not fun. 3.) If you know they are badly textured and you haven't fixed them yet you shouldn't be releasing photos of those exact textures. Twah? 4.) There's a difference between straight out -bad lighting- (which is what yours is) to purposely dark, yet strategically placed and powerful "dark" lighting (where you aren't required to use your flashlight 24/7). If your lighting was proper, you'd have a sense of ominousness, a sense of foreboding. With your lighting I feel like I should puke. Your problem is that you suggested this was very close to release. If you are close to release, you should at that point have proper lighting, proper textures, be very close to the finalization of structures and buildings and generally be only changing small details. Since instead you're doing all of those things, and you are over 2-3 weeks away(!?, that's not 1-2 weeks) from release, then why do you say it's "near release?" I told you how to improve, but because I put it bluntly yet truthfully you chose to ignore it. And regarding your last portion, if you aren't willing to take proper criticism, then don't post these threads. You and generally everyone has to be willing to take honest criticism in order to improve. If you can't handle the heat, then release anyway and take the hateful comments and trash talk later, and finish off with a bad map. I'd rather help you out now than berate you later. EDIT: I'll even go into specifics, since I realized that I really didn't point out direct issues. Your brick texture is repetitive and not representative of the area. Why would there be a random brick fence (basically what it is) in the middle of nowhere? Is it part of a larger facility? It's an unfitting texture because you haven't elaborated in the map enough of what that area really is. Your wall is not heavily detailed. It IS the most detailed portion of your map, but it doesn't tell a story. Who built it? Since it's so sporadic, where are left over materials that couldn't be incorporated into the defense? Why is this advanced button keypad on a really weird wooden gate? Where does that gate lead? There's no suggestion of where it would open up to because your area is badly defined. And additionally, why are awkward light emplacements embedded in the brick? Why is there a special force stopping me from entering the zombie spawn in this SEEHOWLONGYOUCANSURVIVE TYPE GAME map? You want your map to be good, you need to tell a story. And that's through proper detail.[/QUOTE] Firstly, again, I do take proper criticism. What yours is isn't proper criticism. What your saying is pretty much this: "I hate your map, its ugly, I want to throwup, you should probably stop mapping because your horrible at it." This is not criticism. You never told me how to improve. You directly insulted me, and even 'contemplated me being a troll because the map looks stupid.' But whatever, this is your opinion. Also, I'm upping release date (if I even release it), because someone gave proper suggestions, like more areas, instead of spewing out how bad the map is. The last part, your edit, is much better. When I finish the 3D skybox (which I've been working on today), this will be part of a 'larger facility,' what kind I shall not say yet, but the brickwall is a placeholder. The gate will be removed, it is also a placeholder now, and will lead to another area eventually. The zombie spawn is being changed. Thank you for actually pointing out and giving suggestions this time around, instead of just only insulting me, which you still did, but atleast you did something helpful. [editline]22nd April 2011[/editline] Also, I misread Black Ice. I thought you said add an antlion guard fight.

Improve mapping by not mapping, This map is blocky and just really ugly and small. To decide to post it on facepunch... Ask yourself... Would you enter this into a mapping contest?

[QUOTE=Best4bond;29364845]Improve mapping by not mapping, This map is blocky and just really ugly and small. To decide to post it on facepunch... Ask yourself... Would you enter this into a mapping contest?[/QUOTE] [i]Yes, because if you don't do something right at first, never do it again. That makes 100% sense.[/i]

I just told you what's wrong with it and I'm probably one of the nicer people here. Be glad a serious critic hasn't decided to enter your thread yet, because they would probably be even more brutally honest than I've already been. Instead of responding to this thread more, go back to your map and fix all of the problems that I've listed, since those are all of the problems you need to fix before you can start moving on with the map. Any sane person is going to basically agree with what I said, just do it and fix it and move along to other new features. Only post again if you have a serious question or serious update, otherwise you're purposely just stalling here. Continue to check for advice, but get to work on your map instead of wasting time. In addition, it's not my job to be nice to you. Deal.

[QUOTE=Jrose14;29365149][i]Yes, because if you don't do something right at first, never do it again. That makes 100% sense.[/i][/QUOTE] In case of you it does.

The partitioning wall possesses detail, yes. But what about the others surrounding the playing area? They are bland and featureless. Just remember that if everyone lied and said that its amazing, then you would never get better. Criticism makes you start thinking more, and gives you room for improvement. Just about everyone in the Mapping Section is honest, so you should be working on their criticism.

For the hell of it, add a treehouse that Fast Zombies can climb up (such as the pipes in Ravenholm)

Looks bland and ugly.

Never post your WIP maps on facepunch unless you definitely know it's really good, Everybody here who tries gets their maps slagged off because the people here get enjoyment out of it.

[QUOTE=thecakeisalie;29377426]Never post your WIP maps on facepunch unless you definitely know it's really good, Everybody here who tries gets their maps slagged off because the people here get enjoyment out of it.[/QUOTE] Wow, you're entirely wrong, we offer constructive criticism (Occasionally) which actually benefits mappers who are new to the whole Source SDK thing, you may have had one of your maps slagged in the past, according to you but everyone here was probably offering you advice and giving feedback, it may not have been in a friendly manner, but it was still advice. People should post their WIPs as that is how they learn, from others telling them what they done wrong, how they can improve stuff, get your facts right before you come in here telling people not to post WIPs.

[QUOTE=thecakeisalie;29377426]Never post your WIP maps on facepunch unless you definitely know it's really good, Everybody here who tries gets their maps slagged off because the people here get enjoyment out of it.[/QUOTE] No we don't get enjoyment out of it, we just hate shitty maps, you don't see firegod released or making maps that's just a block now do you, we're just trying to tell people to get a tad better and then post the maps.

It's not that they enjoy it, but it's usually true. You need to take criticism and not dismiss things people say with "It's not finished!" take their comment into consideration and do something about it.

[QUOTE=thecakeisalie;29377426]Never post your WIP maps on facepunch unless you definitely know it's really good, Everybody here who tries gets their maps slagged off because the people here get enjoyment out of it.[/QUOTE] As someone who has never posted a map here, how would you know that we slag maps off and that we get enjoyment out of it?

Anyways, I have been working over my random ban... I still don't understand why I got banned for asking whicch one of the Total Wars I should get... but yeah. I've removed the brick walls, I'm adding alleys, random props, hidding supply cashes, and the treehouse thing someone suggested... it would really fit in this setting... BTW, the setting is pretty much... warehousey, however you would describe it. Dirty, with warehouses, little open space... Y'know. [editline]24th April 2011[/editline] Oh yes, and... [QUOTE=thecakeisalie;29377426]Never post your WIP maps on facepunch unless you definitely know it's really good, Everybody here who tries gets their maps slagged off because the people here get enjoyment out of it.[/QUOTE] From my experience, not many people do. [i]You[/i] may feel all warm and tingly by saying someone's map sucks, but these people, despite some being complete assholes, have given me ideas and criticism, which I needed. Think before you speak[type] man.