For the novice mapper: A little bit of encouragement and what 5 years looks like... - Developers

After reading another thread where yet another novice mapmaker was frustrated with the constructive criticism, I had an idea. This thread is for any novice mapper who has just entered the world of mapping and figured out how some of the tools he/she has at hand work, but hasn't really produced anything of quality. I've been mapping for over 5 years now. I started out on HL1 making stupid basic linear worlds where you grab a big gun and run through some blocky, leaking hallway with zombies and scientists placed in no particular order. The rooms make no sense and the textures are just randomly placed. The lighting (never fullbright) was toned either way too high or way too low and the end of the level was just a wall in your way. I wish I had that map still. Everyone starts at the bottom, producing crap nobody wants to play on. Trust me. I was there. I thought my map was awesome where in fact it was just a lump of unoptimized garbage. The only way you will improve and get better at mapping is by failing. I know that sounds terrible but it's the truth. Just like any other art like drawing, modeling, painting, dancing, you're work is going to be shit for the first little while, no matter how hard you try. You need to work on your skills and improve them with time and effort. Lots of people ask me "man how did you learn to map so well?" and my answer to that? Time and effort. I could go on and on explaining but I have a better idea. I'll just list off as much work I've done as I can find in the order I've produced it, and share that work with you guys. You can even play on the maps if you want as I'll try to provide a download link. Just look at the really basic geometry and layouts/atmosphere from the start and how it improves as time goes on: [I]I've made a number of maps before this but this is the start of my record of maps.[/I] [B][I]SB Extinction[/I][/B] This is one of the earliest maps I can find that I've made. [url]http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=65146[/url] __________________________________________________ ____________________________ [I]Learning from that last map, I looked a little bit at other maps and how things could look better.[/I] [B][I]WIRE Map 2[/I][/B] I dont know if I've ever made a version one. Was so long ago. Earliest version i could find was 2. Look at dat FPS. Shit computer was shit. It was designed for my first ever community (and first ever admin position) W.I.R.E which stood for Wire Institute of Recreational Education. There were no teachers. Or education. Just sandbox. [url]http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=72779[/url] Here's the latest version: wire_map2-3 [url]http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=87824[/url] __________________________________________________ ____________________________ [B][I]WIRE Desert[/I][/B] We all had a really weird thing for desert apocalypse building so I made us a displacement desert. [url]http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=76098[/url] I taught myself how to work with complex displacements and made a huge update: [url]http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=78080[/url] __________________________________________________ ____________________________ [I]After a bit of time making several plans and getting a few brushes in, I stopped working on wire maps. I switched communities and moved on to mapping for a new community. I got better at displacements, a very important tool in nature mapping and designed some really nice ocean floors.[/I] [B][I]Nodex Arctic Ocean[/I][/B] This map was also designed for a community. It was a more serious build community then WIRE. Nodex was the home of Wenli who made wenli's tools (precision alignment, ballsocket center, and physgun buildmode) and Wenli really liked arctic maps. This map was intended for boats, submarines, land vehicles, and aircraft. As well as everything else. [url]http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=96096[/url] There's a version 2 to this map. [url]http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=98473[/url] __________________________________________________ ____________________________ [I]Keep in mind, these map took me a few weeks to make. If I tried to remake them today, they'd be done in a few hours.[/I] [B][I]Nodex Island[/I][/B] This was another map for Nodex. After everyone was tired of the arctic, we moved to a more tropical island. Notice the v1q? It took me 17 compiles to get it at the stage it's at here. I could still have this done in a day if I did it today. [url]http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=103814[/url] __________________________________________________ ____________________________ [I]I got into RP, particularly PERP after trying out PERP1 at my cousins place in the summer of 2009. I really liked evocity2 and made it my goal to one day make a RLRP map like evocity. That goal is almost complete with Rockford.[/I] [B][I]RP Acreditara[/I][/B] This was my first attempt at a RP map for Garry's Mod. (I tried making one in my HL1 days. Made an apartment complex in like a month and gave up after I went to 12fps. HL1 has terrible optimization) I think I based it kind of off Evocity in regard to the big hill. I was working on this map when Pulsar Effect released PERP2 in 2010. No download unfortunately. The map is lost forever. But there are a couple videos. [video=youtube;8Og-RVfhpUg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Og-RVfhpUg[/video] [video=youtube;5g2t3CnYAHk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g2t3CnYAHk[/video] __________________________________________________ ____________________________ [I]I gave up on Acreditara after seeing it going almost nowhere and being too open/poorly planned. I had helped out with cosmoscity on OCRP in the OC community and after Frosty and Kazuo, the other mappers, left the community, I started work on a map called cosmoscity2. It eventually turned into a new map and after some random guy who had 2 posts that nobody knew made the suggestion for the name, Rockford was born.[/I] [B][I]RP Rockford[/I][/B] (original version) The original Rockford started out around the end of summer of 2010. This map really shows that sometimes, you need to put a lot of time and effort into something to make it nice. Here's a video of it during development. [video=youtube;veCX22ZnF4Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veCX22ZnF4Q[/video] [url]http://www.mediafire.com/download/ffantgay97kvtv0/rp_rockford_v1b.zip[/url] (probably wont be able to see anything due to content) __________________________________________________ ____________________________ [I]Not much happened between Orange Cosmos and Catalyst Gaming in regards to mapmaking. I spent most of my time on rockford up to this point. I have a livestream which might still have footage of me working on Rockford. I had spent several months, maybe even a year on it before realizing it was out of my league.[/I] [B][I]RP Ineu Pass[/I][/B] It's been over 2 years since this maps release. I have to say Ineu Pass was my turning point in hammer. It's where I learned the most things. You see, sometimes you need to look at how things are done and replicate them to learn how to do it by yourself. This is how ineu_pass was done. 600+ hours went into that map before first release. [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=143547520[/url] __________________________________________________ ____________________________ [I]Ineu Pass sparked a huge interest in other people in regards to my mapping. I had started getting requests for edits, new maps, Ineu edits. I only had a few people where I accepted their offers and started work.[/I] [B][I]RP Mountain Castle[/I][/B] A map someone was going to commission me into doing but got cold feet. Obviously incomplete but nonetheless, here's a little peak at what could have been a decent castle rp map. [img]https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x500q90/109/rpmountaincastlev00010.jpg[/img][img]https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x500q90/836/rpmountaincastlev00012.jpg[/img] No download. Sorry. ______________________________________________________________________________ [I]I felt slight remorse for taking valves map and adding my own work, then getting all that credit for it so I had to do something that was completely all my own work.[/I] [B][I]RP Ineu Valley[/I][/B] My first attempt with release at a detailed RP map without taking parts from other maps. [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129218683[/url] ______________________________________________________________________________ [I]People had complained about my lack of trees and natural appearance of Ineu Valley. I told them the map was simply too big to put that much detail into (I learned this was a false statement in the future) and wanted to sharpen my skills in detailing.[/I] [B][I]GM Mountain Road[/I][/B] Something I whipped up for shits n gigs and to mess around with nature mapping. [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129744627[/url] ______________________________________________________________________________ [I]All this map making and people noticing me started getting me profit. RoflWaffle and TOMASAS (owner and ex co-owner of CG) asked me to give the HRP map a touch up to make it more appealing. I decided to make an entirely new map to give the gamemode a fresh atmosphere.[/I] [B][I]RP Catalyst Harbor[/I][/B] People didn't like it though. Red Harbor was way too big and the cliffs made the map feel less open. A good example of taking criticism and not giving up after spending a long time on something. [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52871438/Photos/hrp/2013-03-10_00005.jpg[/img][img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52871438/Photos/hrp/2013-03-14_00001.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.mediafire.com/download/80o005i2dvt5nd0/rp_catalyst_harbor_v1b.zip[/url] ______________________________________________________________________________ [I]I had a few good ideas while bored at work and straight up screwing around in gmod.[/I] [B][I]GM Longest Bridge[/I][/B] I was at work one day, bored as fuck playing with tdm cars and thought "man i wish there was a map that used as much space as possible on the map so I can drive really fast" [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=165351734[/url] ______________________________________________________________________________ [B][I]GM Coasterpark[/I][/B] Again, I was at work, bored as fuck and playing with lua rolelrcoasters and wanted a map with a grid for building rollercoasters. Ended up making this. [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=196795304[/url] ______________________________________________________________________________ [I]Constructive criticism is quality control for independent mappers/any other developer. If you can learn to take the criticism and use it positively, you are on the right track.[/I] [B][I]RP Harbor2Ocean Catalyst 2[/I][/B] Still being used on the HRP server today and on version 3, this is the product of constructive criticism put to good use. [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52871438/Photos/hrp2/2013-09-11_00009.jpg[/img][img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52871438/Photos/hrp2/2013-09-11_00016.jpg[/img] Download from CG at: 192.169.82.14:27016 ______________________________________________________________________________ [B][I]RP Ineu Valley 2[/I][/B] This is the product of trial and error. Seeing what works and what doesn't. And lots of experience. One of my best maps released yet. [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=232486601[/url] ______________________________________________________________________________ [B][I]RP Ineu Apocalypse[/I][/B] When you make maps, you are the author so there's no regrets when you edit your own maps on a large scale. Here's Ineu Valley intended for fallout or terminator style rp gamemodes. [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=278571728[/url] ______________________________________________________________________________ [I]And now we are on today. The amount of work done really does show. I actually like to see the progress I've made and enjoyed making this thread.[/I] RP Rockford (current WIP) After 5 years of hard work, time, effort, and lots of experience, this is where I am at in regards to mapping. I have come a long way but there is still lots to improve on. [img]http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/595914029808286154/0B9D505B4E3B247F18FD85CE5023466563667DA7/[/img][img]http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/595914029806352415/CC6B0A0C970E7B47B89A43231D1559E7FD8B3D2F/[/img] Sorry. Alpha is currently private. ______________________________________________________________________________ [B]Here's a list of other maps just to give you an idea of how many maps I've made/worked on to come this far:[/B] [quote] daynighttest dev_forestgolf dev_forgottencity frag_chickenballrun gm_npc_stadium gm_overgrown gmr_cg gmr_deathrace2013 gmr_derby8 gmr_dollar gmr_drag2 gmr_rainbowroad_n64 gmr2_downtown rp_c32 rp_cosmoscity rp_forgottencity rp_mountainvillage rp_city8_catalyst teleportertest ttd_destroyedcity [/quote] All in all, never give up and never turn down criticism. Mapping is an art. It's not something you just do. It's something you learn.

Excellent thread, and maps. Mapping certainly is an exercise in patience.

I always end up setting the bar too high and losing interest after a focussed period. I have a bhop map I still need to just finish detailing after having done all the layout, but I feel it will never happen. I'm scared to go back to it now incase I end up hating it. :X Any advice for coming back to big projects/keeping them going?

[QUOTE=Ntag;45346397]I always end up setting the bar too high and losing interest after a focussed period. I have a bhop map I still need to just finish detailing after having done all the layout, but I feel it will never happen. I'm scared to go back to it now incase I end up hating it. :X Any advice for coming back to big projects/keeping them going?[/QUOTE] To add onto that, do you have any advice for when you realise your map isn't as original as you thought it might be, and you feel like there isn't any point in working on said map anymore? Would you continue working on it, changing it to make it more original, or would you scrap the idea entirely and just move onto other projects?

Great post, I remember how much fun I had on the Longest Bridge map.

[QUOTE=Dr. Tower;45346649]To add onto that, do you have any advice for when you realise your map isn't as original as you thought it might be, and you feel like there isn't any point in working on said map anymore? Would you continue working on it, changing it to make it more original, or would you scrap the idea entirely and just move onto other projects?[/QUOTE] Move on. You could've done something original by the time you were trying to fix up the mess.

Nice post from a veteran. Make me think about my beginning ^^

Hey, I think I played that harbour map at some point. Solid thread.

[QUOTE=Ntag;45346397]I always end up setting the bar too high and losing interest after a focussed period. I have a bhop map I still need to just finish detailing after having done all the layout, but I feel it will never happen. I'm scared to go back to it now incase I end up hating it. :X Any advice for coming back to big projects/keeping them going?[/QUOTE] Sometimes you'll have a big project that you just cant complete. Look at acreditara and my first version of rockford. Those maps were large projects. They both however were not completed. Rockford I ended up making another design entirely, taking a few buildings and other elements from the original, then using them as a base. So either load up the map, look at it, and see what can be done, or start something new and take parts from the old map and use them as your base. It's your map so there's no shame in using your own work from other projects. [quote=Dr. Tower]To add onto that, do you have any advice for when you realise your map isn't as original as you thought it might be, and you feel like there isn't any point in working on said map anymore? Would you continue working on it, changing it to make it more original, or would you scrap the idea entirely and just move onto other projects?[/quote] If you find yourself making a map that looks like all other maps, there's nothing wrong with releasing it. It could be the best map out of them all. However if you don't feel that way then it might not and you need to make a decision. Sometimes its right back to the drawing board. Use the map you previously worked on as a guide and place elements in to in in your own unique way.

Adding on to the originality topic, usually you'll only feel like your map isn't original if you haven't imported any custom content. With most maps though, most players won't see it as unoriginal because of the assets, like one of my maps uses the original assets and kind of blends the styles of cs_assault, cs_office and de_nuke in to one map. It's how you use 'em

I started map making a little while ago and while I've made a few small maps I personally like, my main issue is that I just lack ideas. I really want more practice and to get better, but never know what to make to accomplish that. One thing I would like advice on is how do people go about creating maps/rooms in the right size? Like, I'm making a map that's not just dev textures and has props. At first I was worried it'd be too small for players but when it came to put props in the rooms, everything just felt way too spaced out!

Understand the units you're working with and standard room sizes. For one, the units in source are equal to about one inch. That being said, most walls should be about 8 units thick. I don't know why but all the details like window frames are 8 units thick and it just looks normal. As for actual floor size, I'd say make normal hallways 128 and base off that for the rest of your building. Tight hallways like those in a house should be no less then 64 units and wide hallways like those in an office should be about 256 units. As for the rooms, well that just comes with practice. If a room feels too open, throw a wall through it. Even if there's no door and it just sticks out of the middle, just do it. It makes the room feel less open.

Rockford on the last screen is damn beautiful,i hope that it will finish! You are a good mapper,i love it. Continue making maps. I wish that you improve your RP map for made them accessible with vehicle and aircraft because rp_ineupass have a large skybox but the mountain doesnt have texture it's just a hole =) Good works! Continue.

For me its the problem that I lack inspiration every now and then, and sometimes I don't have the willpower to push myself through the basics in a map because I don't know how to do it. Here is my current work (At this point I already made the walls for the main house and I'm working on the details) [T]http://i.imgur.com/w67wRbu.png[/T] [t]http://i.imgur.com/0IZefGZ.png[/t] To my idea, I can make decent scenery, but I never got around to make a proper map looking good and having a lot of functionality.

That brushwork is pretty nice. If you toss that in a rp map however, you'll probably have issues with limits if you put that much detail into brushwork. I advise you learn how to use the program propper to convert those details into models. As for insipration, I always just look at things for reference. If I'm working on a mountain map, I look around on google images and google maps. If I'm working on a city, I look around on google maps or get in my car and go for a drive, looking at stuff IRL. Just pay attention to the little details like the gas meters, stains, grafiti, pipes, telephone wires, etc. Its always good inspiration when you're looking at something you want to replicate. Sometimes when working on large projects, I take like an hour break every 3 hours or so and either look at reference images to motivate myself or do something completely off topic, maybe even off the computer to let my mind chill for a bit.

[QUOTE=Statua;45382563]That brushwork is pretty nice. If you toss that in a rp map however, you'll probably have issues with limits if you put that much detail into brushwork. I advise you learn how to use the program propper to convert those details into models. As for insipration, I always just look at things for reference. If I'm working on a mountain map, I look around on google images and google maps. If I'm working on a city, I look around on google maps or get in my car and go for a drive, looking at stuff IRL. Just pay attention to the little details like the gas meters, stains, grafiti, pipes, telephone wires, etc. Its always good inspiration when you're looking at something you want to replicate. Sometimes when working on large projects, I take like an hour break every 3 hours or so and either look at reference images to motivate myself or do something completely off topic, maybe even off the computer to let my mind chill for a bit.[/QUOTE] That sounds good, as for the inspiration, I finally got a good start with this map: [T]http://upl.kittehcat.org/2014-07-14_12-44-20.jpg[/T] Got a pretty good furnishing for the porch, and in another sudden surge of inspiration I decided to make brush-based trimwork: [T]http://upl.kittehcat.org/2014-07-14_12-45-28.jpg[/T] I still have a long way to go, but I certainly made a good start here.

After roughly 3 years of mapping I am not in full understanding of most hammer tools and their functions. I can easily create complex brushwork and prop placement, and I possess a vast amount of ideas that can be exploited in maps. Most of what I lack is willpower, usually being incapable of building anything from scratch without some serious encouragement. That and my obsession with making perfect maps, to the point I will recompile an entire map if a texture on a wall is even an inch off. I also practically never use nodraw. Anyway keep up the good work, your maps have made beautiful progress. Niandra: I used to have the same problem and I simply resorted to "borrowing" doorways, windows and room walls from valve maps and such, and using them with info_player_start as measuring tools for appropriate room size.