Hey there facepunchers, I'm coming here to announce our new Roleplaying map and server that's being set up but mainly to ask for help from the talented Gmod mapping community.
We are creating a brand new map called Civitas Bervis (translates to City Shore) for our new server and are planning on making it the largest and most detailed roleplaying map to date.
Some of the features we are planning on incorporating are:
- Docks with trainyard
- Complex train based public transport (over/underground)
- Day/night system
- NPC Citizens
- Advanced Nexus for Civil Protection with features such as a training course
- Central Rebel headquarters with underground tunnel system linking into the subway and sewers
- Design is mainly industrial based with natural areas in and surrounding the city
- Faceposed NPCs
The server will support 50 players at the start, with potential to upgrade to 64 later on. The server will also run off a heavily modified version of Tacoscript which will be developed specifically for this map and server.
If you're interested in contributing to the map as a mapper, modeller, texturer or lua coder then please let us know! The more talent we can recruit, the better this map will be for everyone.
Some previous examples of your work would be appreciated first.
50 players? in the most detailed rp map ever? Good luck...
It would be hard to gather 50 players in one game without anyone of them want to fuck it up.
Even if you do get 50 players. It would be a lagfest unless the server is some kind of superserver.
[QUOTE=Mystfit27]
Some previous examples of your work would be appreciated first.[/QUOTE]
How about some of [I]your[/I] work?
Amen to that.
[QUOTE=Maloof?]Amen to that.[/QUOTE]
Indeed...
Just so you know, people don't really like it when you come in here and start assuming that people want to help you when you can't produce any material yourself.
Mystfit27, PMd you. I want to contribute. :dance:
[QUOTE=Maloof?]Just so you know, people don't really like it when you come in here and start assuming that people want to help you when you can't produce any material yourself.[/QUOTE]
Ever seen the GLaDOS vs. Blackbird Machinima for the Blackbird film contest? Mystfit did all the entities and such for that. He won a 8000 dollar computer because of it. He knows what he's doing.
Oh.
Well letting us know that he isn't a complete newbie would've saved alot of general confusion.
I'd be keen to do some of the entity work/brushwork for this.
The only proof I want to see if a project of this size ever succeeded.
It hasn't.
No matter what precautions you took, it would still lag like a 90-year-old woman running up Everest.
Anything's possible. I've seen up to 42 players on moderately large maps (City 45), and although it's on a different engine, Red Orchestra was once limited to 32 to a server on maps rarely larger than a square kilometre. Now we have maps about 5-6 times as large (one is actually 24 sq. km., actually) and server support for 50 players, and it's perfectly stable. I'd expect Source could handle the same in terms of numbers, so long as it's done well.
[QUOTE=rossmum]Anything's possible. I've seen up to 42 players on moderately large maps (City 45), and although it's on a different engine, Red Orchestra was once limited to 32 to a server on maps rarely larger than a square kilometre. Now we have maps about 5-6 times as large (one is actually 24 sq. km., actually) and server support for 50 players, and it's perfectly stable. I'd expect Source could handle the same in terms of numbers, so long as it's done well.[/QUOTE]
If it's on another engiene, you can't compare maps/max players
True, but I have seen a number of games pushed farther than people thought was possible. It's worth a try, at the very least.
[QUOTE=Zyx]If it's on another engiene, you can't compare maps/max players[/QUOTE]
City 45 is still a fairly large map, and I've been on a server when its full and I had a pretty decent ping. It depends on what server you're running off of, but if you have a nice server, I think it could work.
It's probably possible, but you will need to optimize the map to the extreme.
I just think that this could have one of the biggest potentials to completely flop.
When you are making something you want it is crucial to consider everything. Even the tiny things that are important but you don't even need to care about on regular maps.
People have the ability to completely "fool" hammer and make huge things like this, but I have a much bigger concern.
I just wonder how your server would handle 64 players all interacting with the map and tying in a script over it.
Also have you considered limits anywhere in this? Like how you really think you can make the largest most detailed map with all this stuff in it and all the regular stuff under 8200 brushes? I've made a small skyscraper with half those brushes. Forgive the possibility of sarcasm, this is a serious question.
Also how do you think you can contain entdata to an acceptable percentage? I don't even need to repeat the things in your list to try and explain how much this would push it.
I hope for serious answers because I am actually possibly interested, but I not only want to know the above questions, I would also like to know how you expect the map to look and play like?
[QUOTE=Pj The Dj]I just think that this could have one of the biggest potentials to completely flop.
When you are making something you want it is crucial to consider everything. Even the tiny things that are important but you don't even need to care about on regular maps.
People have the ability to completely "fool" hammer and make huge things like this, but I have a much bigger concern.
I just wonder how your server would handle 64 players all interacting with the map and tying in a script over it.
Also have you considered limits anywhere in this? Like how you really think you can make the largest most detailed map with all this stuff in it and all the regular stuff under 8200 brushes? I've made a small skyscraper with half those brushes. Forgive the possibility of sarcasm, this is a serious question.
Also how do you think you can contain entdata to an acceptable percentage? I don't even need to repeat the things in your list to try and explain how much this would push it.
I hope for serious answers because I am actually possibly interested, but I not only want to know the above questions, I would also like to know how you expect the map to look and play like?[/QUOTE]
Another problem to consider is file size.
You're going to want a massive internet tube to allow downloads from server unless you release the .bsp for download elsewhere, in which case odds are some other servers will use it.
Almost all of the best and detailed maps are made by one mapper, so not a team. The only way you can make a good map with more players is when you see them every day, the best would be people that live in your house.
The 50 player is too big I say around 42 like hl2land does and when I play taco i feel like I am a loser so I say 42 and dark RP.
Dark RP is so weird though. I mean when you get one minge on a server it can ruin everything without an admin. Tacoscript, not so much.
[QUOTE=WalrusAttack]Dark RP is so weird though. I mean when you get one minge on a server it can ruin everything without an admin. Tacoscript, not so much.[/QUOTE]
Taco you can spend all day raiseing money to buy a gun to defend your self then a abuseing cop kills you. Your broke and wasted a day
Well he said its going to be modified :P. Who knows, maybe it will be better.
The map will probably be posted and a link will be provided. I'm not going to say that I'm the best mapper out there, as a matter of fact I'm still relatively new at it but I want to try and see how far we can take this as far as scale.
As far as optimizing and hammer limits, we're starting off by designing the layout of the city as simply as possible, using the smallest amount of brushes possible then working our way up from there designing individual buildings. To make this map work, optimization has to happen from the get go, otherwise as you all say, a lagfest will ensue
Design wise, we're looking at having a combination of close quarter buildings with narrow accessways between them but expanding upwards by including multiple skyways and bridges. Natural environments will probably include various small parks with the beach being backed with dunes and a possible forest bordering part of the city.
What kind of limits would we expect to see in something of this scale? Mainly engine and editor limits, I haven't hit these limits yet so it would be good to know what you can and can't do with Hammer number wise. Design wise, I'm sure we can get around that, games are all about illusion after all.
Here is a list of a few limits.
[code]models 1024
brushes 8192
brushsides 65536
planes 65536
vertexes 65536
nodes 65536
texinfos 12288
texdata 2048
faces 65536
hdr faces 65536
origfaces 65536
leaves 65536
leaffaces 65536
leafbrushes 65536
areas 256
surfedges 512000
edges 256000
LDR worldlights 8192
HDR worldlights 8192
waterstrips 32768
waterverts 65536
waterindices 65536
cubemapsamples 1024
overlays 512
LDR leaf ambient 65536
HDR leaf ambient 65536
[/code]
Awesome, thanks for that. That'll come in handy.
Ouch, skyways. The idea of optimisation is to hide as much of the map as possible, skyways are probably not a clever thing, unless you get some heavy fog in there.
I'd contribute but I don't see how you can make a 64 player map with the level of detail I would be willing to compromise to.
Not being unfreindly or anything, but, in it's current state, personally, I think this map will never see the light of day.
Your wanting to much from it.
He may have "Won a $8000 computer because of entity work", but he didn't win a $8000 computer for optimization.
Cut in the half the features you want, and you might [i]just[/i] have a chance of completing.
Just because you have a team, doesn't mean it will make life easy.
Look at mod teams for example, a lot of mod teams are disorginized and usually fail.
Mainly due to lack of communication.
Also I think that your choice of making an RP map is a not a good idea. In the end, yes you might of made one of the best RP maps out there, but what % of the GMod community plays RP?
It may of been best if you researched the Source Engine's limits a little before starting the thread...
Well you are being unfriendly. Not only do you assume winning a competition for entity work means he can't use the rest of hammer, you talk about disorganised mod teams which is the most irrelevant and anal thing you could hate about this map at it's current state. Then you go onto bashing upon opinion and preference, something that is also irrelevant.
I can't honestly see how you can justify this post by saying "not being unfriendly or anything".
[QUOTE=Mystfit27]The map will probably be posted and a link will be provided. I'm not going to say that I'm the best mapper out there, as a matter of fact I'm still relatively new at it but I want to try and see how far we can take this as far as scale. [/quote]
As you are new I can understand the naivety of such a large project, so i'll try to explain my best why it might be anybodys hardest ever project, let alone your first.
[QUOTE=Mystfit27]As far as optimizing and hammer limits, we're starting off by designing the layout of the city as simply as possible, using the smallest amount of brushes possible then working our way up from there designing individual buildings. To make this map work, optimization has to happen from the get go, otherwise as you all say, a lagfest will ensue[/QUOTE]
I completely agree with this. It is easily possible to create detailed areas without lag if you consider optimisation and visleafs from the start by seperating areas in a discreet way. I am more worried about fitting in so many detailed areas within brush limits. I couldn't be more serious when I say that if this is ever finished, you will have to cut back things and you will probably end up compiling with every single 8192 brushes taken.
[QUOTE=Mystfit27]Design wise, we're looking at having a combination of close quarter buildings with narrow accessways between them but expanding upwards by including multiple skyways and bridges. Natural environments will probably include various small parks with the beach being backed with dunes and a possible forest bordering part of the city. [/QUOTE]
I don't know what you mean by skyways, but like other guys that have posted I immediately think this is going to be bad.
It would be interesting to see some pictures (even if only rough) of plans or concepts of what you actually want. Your description sounds odd to me without further explanation.
[QUOTE=Mystfit27]What kind of limits would we expect to see in something of this scale? Mainly engine and editor limits, I haven't hit these limits yet so it would be good to know what you can and can't do with Hammer number wise. Design wise, I'm sure we can get around that, games are all about illusion after all.[/QUOTE]
I have a feeling a lot of the map could be faked by a 3d skybox. Not only do I mean the surrounding areas, but actually parts of areas you are walking around. What I mean is having areas sectioned off by whatever seems appropriate for the area and have the areas in the skybox. It may seem silly to have an explanation but I personally felt 3d skyboxes were designed for backgrounds, not having more of a role in the actual map so I just thought i'd say.
[b]Edit:[/b]
I also don't begin to tap into having npcs romping around the map either.
With this, train systems, your nexus thing, whatever else you listed and the rest of the entities for the map, I see your entdata being rediculously high. F.Kalkman's seemingly smallish rp map pushes it at 200% I believe he said. He doesn't begin to have any more 'advanced' stuff.
The only way I can see this working [b]would[/b] be to use fog with the z-clip (or whatever it's called) right behind the fog.
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