GTA City v2

[SpyShadow]

I started a forum post long time ago about this. I had learned a lot of ways to improve rendering of a huge city with less performance impact.

Below is a small example scene on using things I learned.

Recent Changes....

I made the fake house to where you can enter it. The interior of the house is out in the void but you will feel like you are at that particular house. I also got the garage door working too. If you want to test this out, click the link below.

[URL="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/garrysmod/maps/residental_low_PAK.bsp"]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/garrysmod/maps/residental_low_PAK.bsp[/URL]

[IMG]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/preview.jpg[/IMG]

Each house in this scene is 1,000 polygons each, grand total of 8,000 polygons in scene.

1 Alyx model - 8,323 Polygons

If the scene was made entirely out of brush's, expect the polygon count to be higher!

The city will contain both buildings that you can enter and not enter. The fake buildings that you can't enter are prop_static models. They will have LODs. The example scene above has one house I managed to compile out. It does not have its LODs yet but it will.

The objective in this new project I am starting up is to use less brush's, more models. The only things that need to be a brush is buildings that you can enter.

I do need to test and see if its possible to match a exterior static prop model of a building to a interior of brush's.

Now I do need help on some things. That's if the community would like to help out.

- City planning (Planning Residential, Industrial, Lot layout, ect...)
One major importance of the city planning would be spacing out the buildings you enter. We can't have a ton of brush buildings next to each other for example.
VBSP cuts up brush faces into more segments, this is bad. It means more polygons per face, while if it was made in a modeling program like 3D Max, it be only 2 polygons per side.
Now you know why the levels of hl2 don't have much detail.

- Models (Props, exterior and interior props, fake buildings)
These static / physics models need to have LODs and less polygons as possible

- Making Brush building interiors (Buildings we can walk in)
This area be something that is hard to accomplish. Some buildings interiors will be in the map while others will be out in the void where the player be teleported.

Deciding what buildings should be able to see through a window for example vs buildings that be out in the void. What buildings should we enter?

Finally, a cool name for the city, so I can name the bank I made.

anyone interested?

I plan on hosting the demo scene above once it gets a bit more bigger.

If ya interested in running it on gmod, download link for demo map below.
[URL="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/garrysmod/maps/residental_low_PAK.bsp[/URL]

[Oskutin]

Remember that props can't receive good shadows.
Also, lower the lightmap scale on the ground.

[HT20]

Make the houses and apartments out in the void and the "public" buildings in the world area.
And the shadows are really ugly at the moment...

[SpyShadow]

yes, the lightmap scale will be lowered. Right now it's at default values.

So houses you enter, the interiors and apartments interiors should be out in the void?

Edit:

I will also fix the shadows on the props

[ExplosiveCheese]

Good old San Andreas

[killer89]

[QUOTE=oskutin;38051314]Remember that props can't receive good shadows.
Also, lower the lightmap scale on the ground.[/QUOTE]

static props (with decent collision meshes) + low lightmap scale value = win

[SpyShadow]

I need some help on making a model. I do not know how to make a prop_static to have the ability to choice a different style of geometry for one model.

Is this possible?

If so how?

I managed to get the model to compile out with submodels but then how do I tell prop_static to change to another submodel?

I am this trying to make a picket white fence have different styles of wood placement. I prefer to not compile out 5 styles of the same model.

[killer89]

[QUOTE=SpyShadow;38057273]I need some help on making a model. I do not know how to make a prop_static to have the ability to choice a different style of geometry for one model.

Is this possible?

If so how?

I managed to get the model to compile out with submodels but then how do I tell prop_static to change to another submodel?

I am this trying to make a picket white fence have different styles of wood placement. I prefer to not compile out 5 styles of the same model.[/QUOTE]

its called a skin.

[url]https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Multiple_Skins_for_a_Single_Model[/url]

[SpyShadow]

[QUOTE=killer89;38057296]its called a skin.

[url]https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Multiple_Skins_for_a_Single_Model[/url][/QUOTE]

Not a skin, not talking about the material / texture that is applied. I'm talking about the geometry. I will post a image of what I am talking about in a few.

EDIT: Trying to compile out a single model with multiple geometry styles. But can be set in hammer. The preview below was from submodels. But there is no option in hammer to set a submodel under prop_static or prop_physics. So either we figure out how to set a submodel in hammer or figure out another way on QC code.

[IMG]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/help1.jpg[/IMG]

[Oskutin]

Justcompile those into 5 different props.

[SpyShadow]

[QUOTE=oskutin;38057499]Justcompile those into 5 different props.[/QUOTE]

yah, looks that way. Out of all the things valve thinks of. They miss something like this. They should have added the ability to select a submodel as well as the body model in the entities.

well, going to this compile them out into 5 different props then.

35 files output. It could of been this only 6 if valve added in the feature in hammer.

[FunnyStarRunner]

Oh wow, this looks like a winner to me.

If I may make a suggestion, you should give the house multiple skins for different colored sidings.

[Shirky]

I know its possible, as if you look at the doors in L4D when they break they switch models. There is a qc command that allows extra geometry to be added.

[SpyShadow]

[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;38057945]Oh wow, this looks like a winner to me.

If I may make a suggestion, you should give the house multiple skins for different colored sidings.[/QUOTE]

I probably will do that to different houses and buildings.

[QUOTE=Shirky;38057975]I know its possible, as if you look at the doors in L4D when they break they switch models. There is a qc command that allows extra geometry to be added.[/QUOTE]

going to look into that. Not only am I looking into ways to improve the map but also shrink the file size of files too.

I added another update image above. All I did tonight was added LOD to the 1 house. Keep in mind, there will be more different houses, I am this using the one house to see how it would look like with lots of them. Added a garbage can and those white fences. I also made the intersection with corner walkways.

Later I got to make the detail sprites more like grass.

[Fishke]

[QUOTE=SpyShadow;38057584]yah, looks that way. Out of all the things valve thinks of. They miss something like this. They should have added the ability to select a submodel as well as the body model in the entities.

well, going to this compile them out into 5 different props then.

35 files output. It could of been this only 6 if valve added in the feature in hammer.[/QUOTE]
pretty sure bodygroup is what you're looking for

[url]https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Bodygroup[/url]

[SpyShadow]

[QUOTE=cameleot;38058032]pretty sure bodygroup is what you're looking for

[url]https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Bodygroup[/url][/QUOTE]

yah I found that too, I got the 1 model to have submodels, but the problem arose when I went into hammer as well. There is no option in hammer to select a subgroup/submodel for prop_static, prop_physics, prop_dynamic. Only body under prop_dynamic.

And I am new to compiling models with subgroups, never done that before.

[FunnyStarRunner]

This map's starting to remind me more of Saint's Row 2. Specifically of Stilwater's suburbs district.

[SpyShadow]

[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;38063199]This map's starting to remind me more of Saint's Row 2. Specifically of Stilwater's suburbs district.[/QUOTE]

what ya looking at is the "low residential" areas. I also need to make medium and high residential. Then commercial and industrial areas. I plan on adding a river in the middle of the map so people can go and drive the boat.

I made the interior designs of a police station. The interior be put in the void. But need a good police station model. I also have the interior of a bank almost done. The big question I got is...

Should the police station or bank be in the void or in the map it self? In other words, if its in the map, people can be on the outside of the building and do a shoot out or something.

I don't know. if its in the map tho, it means for a good radius amount I can't add any other brush buildings

[Shirky]

You cant compile a map if you have anything in the void (Outside of hammers limits)

[SpyShadow]

[QUOTE=Shirky;38066229]You cant compile a map if you have anything in the void (Outside of hammers limits)[/QUOTE]

Anything I reference for out in the void be within hammer limits. It be on the sides, above, or below the main world map.

But I won't allow anything to go out pass the grid. I've tested this out and it does work for helping out on FPS unless you noclip out and look at everything.

Think of it as stacking box's. And yes, it be sealed from leaks.

[editline]16th October 2012[/editline]

question. I am making the building blocks for hammer for the roads to be connected and created easily. This is a 90* corner below. Which one you guys think I should use. I say I should use the one with less turns for more FPS. Less polygons for the same turn.

[URL="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/corner1.jpg"]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/corner1.jpg[/URL]

[URL="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/corner2.jpg"]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/corner2.jpg[/URL]

Note: The corner in the images at the bottom has been split into convex pieces. Gives an idea on how the 90* turn be cut up into brush's.
Yah, I make complex brush designs in sketchup.

[Shirky]

Is it going to be model or brush based?

[SpyShadow]

roads and sidewalks be brush base. which means I have to chop it up into convex pieces for hammer to load them.

I think 6 turns be good. The scale I can go is from 12,6,3. 3 would look ugly. 6 looks good enough. 12 looks very good but could be a FPS problem. The good news is, I can swap the corners out with different version. Think of these as different resolution of detail.

[Shirky]

I really doubt the extra 6 brushes will be a problem at all.

[SpyShadow]

[QUOTE=Shirky;38068050]I really doubt the extra 6 brushes will be a problem at all.[/QUOTE]

well, here is what I calculated...

12 Turns vs 6 turns
36 brush's vs 18 brush's

think 36 is a high brush number for this one 90* corner?

either way, I this save the 2 corners as 2 different resolutions. I use the high detail one for now, later we can like lower it if needed.

In a bit, I post a image of it all chop up into convex pieces that hammer accepts. So the brush pieces will load.

Here is preview images of the 2 corners in game and hammer....

[URL="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/corner_color.jpg"]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/corner_color.jpg[/URL]

[URL="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/corner_hammer.jpg"]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/corner_hammer.jpg[/URL]

[URL="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/corner_wireframe.jpg"]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/corner_wireframe.jpg[/URL]

[Matsilagi]

Now that we got into the GTA maps thing again...

Would be possible to make a "full-sized" Liberty City from GTA III?

I miss the old times getting trough the old "Chinatown".

[notexactly]

I really doubt the Hammer grid is big enough

[Rammelslakje]

Thats funny I was just working on a gta map for gmod, thought it didn't excist yet :D

Cept for my hammer stopped working :(

[SpyShadow]

[QUOTE=Matsilagi;38088929]Now that we got into the GTA maps thing again...

Would be possible to make a "full-sized" Liberty City from GTA III?

I miss the old times getting trough the old "Chinatown".[/QUOTE]

I how much I would like make GTA 3 for gmod. The source engine map size is small. I wish it could be increase some how.

[QUOTE=Rammelslakje;38088987]Thats funny I was just working on a gta map for gmod, thought it didn't excist yet :D

Cept for my hammer stopped working :([/QUOTE]

Hammer all ways stops working or crash's on me, Usually during the times when I forget to save. So I make a habit of saving all the time. Hammer needs to be even more stable one day. Oh and the grid needs to be increased.

Here is what I done recently. The Street blocks are now complete and ready to be pieced together. I made these into prefabs so its easier to place in hammer.

Image...
[URL="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/end.jpg"]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/show/end.jpg[/URL]

EDIT:

I also made the house enterable. On top of that, I made the garage door openable. Try it out by downloading the map below and testing it in gmod.

[URL="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/garrysmod/maps/residental_low_PAK.bsp"]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/58614432/garrysmod/maps/residental_low_PAK.bsp[/URL]

[Plaster]

I wonder if it would be possible remaking the whole San Andreas game in the Source engine.

I expect tons of loading times.

[Sphinxa279]

[QUOTE=Plaster;38100007]I wonder if it would be possible remaking the whole San Andreas game in the Source engine.

I expect tons of loading times.[/QUOTE]

As opposed to one mass open area (Which is not possible in the current source engine) you have the world split into sections with map loads, believe the idea has been toyed with before but never executed.