I've been working on a sandbox map slowly over the last few months. It's not a work of art, but I was aiming for a pragmatic map that could be used for sandbox and ACF combat. I am looking for general input from you guys since you have a good fix between bullshit and brilliancy. This is the first map I have touched in 2012 and I used some stock vmfs for a majority of the structures.
[IMG]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/110732988919605881/AC2C423CB13A33D04C8D58BAD83D113D01D4EC80/[/IMG]
[IMG]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/110732988919618415/0F12B678BBF830100A666C76175D413E53ED63B5/[/IMG]
The workshop link is [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=815824352[/url] if you want to quickly look through the photos and my description. Still at the stage with 'fast' compile settings. Hopefully, it's a worthy concept at the minimum.
I like the map, looks quite professional. I like the concept, it actually reminds me of rp_tnb_coast in the style that you made it.
Downloading now, editing this once I looked around a bit
By the screenshots alone, you should look into some custom road textures, I think there are some road packs and ported textures from GTA floating around here somewhere, maybe someone else has an exact link?
Also, try [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1413669"]this excellent method by 03C0 for creating smooth and dynamic roads[/URL], when done right, it can look miles better than simply working on a tightly-locked 90 degree grid
[editline].[/editline]
Alright, here we go
[t]http://i.imgur.com/vZs0Kdn.jpg[/t]
I like the idea of teleports to different parts of the map, although the symbol for the harbour one on the right is a bit unclear
A problem I've seen prevalent across the whole map is the issue of incorrect dimensions in combination with the object or material they're trying to replicate.
For a small, separated room in a warehouse, the company wouldn't spend millions of dollars to make a solid metal bunker wall 2 feet thick - especially when it's then covered with corrugated metal sheets.
They're actually quite thin, and when you look at similar warehouses in HL2 and other maps, you see that most of them replicate this - the brushes are usually not more than 4, at most 8 units thick.
[t]http://www.smalltowndjs.com/images/sheet-metal-roofing-1769-corrugated-tin-roofing-sheets-700-x-437.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/667C636.jpg[/t]<-- my own example of this
As for the general interior of warehouses, when there's sheet metal on the outside, it's usually on the inside, too. And since sheetmetal is almost completely useless when it comes to bearing the weight and structure of the walls and roof of the things, there's a steel beam skeleton on the inside that does all the heavy lifting, like the image below illustrates.
[IMG]http://www.steelstructureschina.com/images-steelstructure/steel-structure-warehouse001-1.jpg[/IMG]
The sheet metal is pretty much just an outer shell slapped onto the steelbeam skeleton to protect the stuff you want stored from weather and fluctuating temperatures - there will most likely never be a flat ceiling or narrow walkways built into the structure, both of which you should probably look into fixing for your map.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/m8xpXu7.jpg[/t] Walkways like this could exist within solid stone structures, but most likely never within sheetmetal constructs, since you'de be wasting a lot of space
[t]http://i.imgur.com/7qfoNqt.jpg[/t] See the real-world-example above: The walls are both way too thick (remember, a single sheet of sheetmetal bolted to a steelbeam skeleton), and the flat ceiling wastes even more storage space. I can understand the issue of optimization, since you turned the slanted roof into a func_detail, but in terms of realism, that's highly unusual.
I'd advise you to look at real-world warehouses to see how they're constructed; you don't have to completely replicate the look since source has its limits with opimization etc in mind, but compare your interior to this one:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/2AHgfEL.jpg[/t]
Both in terms of 'feel' and the actual lighting, since you can incorporate the hanging neon lights much better than just plopping them into a flat surface, it much closer resembles the real-world counterpart rather than the polygonal box of textures polygons it really is.
Also, HL2 has textures for illuminated windows, with a bit of brushwork, you can replicate the effect of light falling through them so they're illuminated from the inside (like you see in the screenshot), and even use them to light the warehouse (i.e. a 2 unit wide func_brush with the illuminated glass texture, and behind that a solid brush textured with tools_skybox (like the image below:)
[t]http://i.imgur.com/AQeVuWp.jpg[/t](removed the brush on the right for visibility purposes)
From the outside the whole thing still forms a smooth surface so that no visleafs get cut up, but from the inside, the lit windows both serve an aesthetic and functional purpose now.
Another thing I have noticed all over the place is the occurence of misaligned or simply misplaced textures.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/oOSbNZt.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/0pyVjYj.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/r6WuIAd.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/13StCyR.jpg[/t]
Adjust the building sizes accordingly; while this is simply an aesthetic issue most of the time, it's the thing that separates low-to-medium quality maps from high-quality maps. Also, it just kind of looks bad.
If you want your map to stand out from all the others, you have to present it in a way that'll make it look interesting and makes players want to download and explore it.
Since you decided to create a small harbour city, what better way to do so by creating interesting locations and nice views, with many little details and spots to enjoy the view or something?
Also, how do your buildings look? Are they interesting to look at, do they reveal their purpose by simply looking at them?
Compare the screenshots below.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/hk3ZJoC.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/uyPDsPf.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/WnL7DVv.jpg[/t]
Now, which of these would most likely attract the interest of a player?
They utilize similar textures, are of similar size, and, judging by the textures, all serve either as residential buildings or an office complex.
What distinguishes them is the way they are laid out. Simply plopping down a 512x1024 cube is the most easy thing to do in hammer, and that's what 90% of novice do when creating a building.
But when you look at a real apartment complex, it's clearly a bit more sophisticated than that.
Architecture is all about combining functionality (people want to live in there) with aesthetic (i don't want to go home to my concrete bunker every evening).
I'd just recommend you to look up archicture, search streetview for inspiration or just walk through your nearest city with open eyes and see how the buildings are laid out in terms of shape and aesthetic. Can you easily distinguish the main entrance? Why? Why does a bank look different from your own house? What's the difference between a soviet apartment complex and british cottages?
Check out [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1390596"]oskutin's tutorial[/URL] on how to create some basic and nice-looking apartment complexes for a start, and simply work from there. It's always useful to look at how other mappers do stuff, so try to copy that at first, and then experiment a bit with how you would do it. It's very easy to distinguish between the buildings you simply ripped from HL2 and those you created yourself, but with a bit of training and time, that won't have to be the case!
Detailing is very important. You can't recreate a city 1:1 in gmod, but hat shouldn't stop you from replicating the most important details.
Add streetlights to your roads. There's usually one at every corner and evenly spaced inbetween for cities, and spaced a bit wider when travelling on roads outside the city. Again, reference helps wonders. Streetview, too.
Lower the street itself by a few units to separate it from the sidewalk. There's drains embedded into the concrete in regular intervalls, you have signals at intercrossings and pedestrian crossings, as well. Signs regulate traffic and where you can and cannot dump your dead cat in a plastic bag.
The difference between this
[t]http://i.imgur.com/SxHtOWr.jpg[/t]
and this
[t]http://i.imgur.com/DyXghTe.jpg[/t]
is just a good eye for detail and the mental fortitude to undo a bit of (sometimes a lot of) work and spend some time to improve on something you'll be proud of in the end.
Most of what I've listed by now are novice mistakes that'll iron out with some practice, so please don't be disheartened by how long this post is.
I've found some other various things you should look into, but by and large, this map seems quite nice, even more so when you spend some time improve on it.
One last lightning round:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/1wPaQ4q.jpg[/t]Maybe change the texture for the docks. By and large, you will find neither tiles nor fine stone bricks there, but instead concrete, standard concrete bricks or tracks embedded into concrete (sensing a theme here?, with the quayside being supported by wooden poles or steel beams.
[T]http://img.fotocommunity.com/hafenkai-7e72eb07-ec47-4fa2-b977-ec4116ae9e77.jpg?width=1000[/T][T]https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8536/8671383198_a7e978304c_c.jpg[/T][T]http://www.fuxpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/AEF_7512_2.jpg[/T]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/oOSbNZt.jpg[/t]
As already said, misaligned textures. Also, the roof. For large buildings like that, it's usually done in a zig-zag shape to both provide stability and sunlight.
[T]https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/old-factory-big-roof-facade-39955437.jpg[/T][T]http://www.vbsltd.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Factory-Rooflight-WM.jpg[/T]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/pn8owgS.jpg[/t]
the whole terrain is kind of sub-par. Displacements are a hassle to work with, but when you finally know what you're doing, you can produce beautiful results. Try to embed the tunnel within a mountain; otherwise there would be no reason to build it in the first place, the road would've just been built around it.
Also, such a large road leading to a huge steel door leading to a small tunnel leading to a tiny underground bunker? It's neither hidden nor effective.
Either place the entrance to the bunker within a tunnel so that traffic can pass unhindered (i.e. maybe in a sideroom like in [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6D4kHcSFYI"]HL2's Sandtrap zombie tunnel?[/URL]), or separate bunker entrance and tunnel entrance.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/3p8eoqv.jpg[/t]
This is both bad practice in terms of visual and optimization.
Default HL2 doors have dimensions of 48x108. Create doorways with this in mind, and add the appropiate frame around it - metaldoor035a matches here, for example:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/Vz9DVwh.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/pXz89eG.jpg[/t]
Bad texture for fences. If you really want sheetmetal fences, try a rustier, more worn texture, and add proper supports on the back:
[T]http://missukoai.xyz/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/fascinating-sheet-metal-fence-panels-ideas-metal-fencing-panels-design-idea-and-decor.jpg[/T][T]http://www.nishport.com/thumbnail/c/corrugated-sheet-metal-fence-13.jpeg[/T]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/i4ZsvnY.jpg[/t]
I really like this guard post. A bit rough on the detailing side, but besides that, looking really nice.
Maybe a button to raise the barriers, and some sort of console for the guard on this side, as well?
[t]http://i.imgur.com/Pk37E4T.jpg[/t]
Textures can go a long way for detailing. Add trims on top and bottom of the buildings, the same stone texture repeated looks very bland. Also, doors. Easiest thing to keep out robbers. How about a porch step, and a porch light?
Turn the ground into a displacement (don't forget to seal the map!).
[t]http://i.imgur.com/eExNYMK.jpg[/t]
If this is the sea, where is the beach? There should be a blend texture with that grass texture and a sand texture.
Half Life 2 doesn't have much in the way of foliage etc, so create some diversity by making the ground a bit more uneven, maybe add some Episode 2 assets, or ported L4D2 foliage.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/LpwDM2Z.jpg[/t]
The roof tile texture is oriented the wrong way. Also, doors.
Compare this to your brick building two images up. See how much difference a trim and a different wall texture can make for details and a more interesting look?
[t]http://i.imgur.com/NjJQc6i.jpg[/t]
Is this mote done via brushes or displacements? If brushes, eew. Turn it into a single displacement and lower the middle. Displacements need to have the same length on adjoining edges to properly sew, or be exactly half as long.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/9TAJJjZ.jpg[/t]
[URL]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1413669[/URL]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/WPeNgZH.jpg[/t]
Containers all have a single, uniform length. in this case, that would be the one given by the models.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/7fAaRHV.jpg[/t]
The corresponding OSHA supervisor would tear out their hair at this. Containers are alway stacked perfectly on top of each other, since the have little pins on each edge that connect them to each other to prevent them from falling off.
[t]http://marsecreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/port-shipping-containers.jpg[/t]
Also, [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermodal_container[/URL]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/721N33e.jpg[/t]
compare to this:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/qNUKMEN.jpg[/t]
Both in shape and detailing.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/T8LAbNb.jpg[/t]
brushwork like this is kind of ugly. If you really want to keep it, lower the lightmap scale on those materials for a smoother look, or use propper to turn them into models.
Otherwise, search for a model that would fit your needs.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/edWQnmX.jpg[/t]
The scale of this thing is all over the place. Google for a building with similar function to what you have in mind and base yours of of that.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/Mhnv7VH.jpg[/t]
I actually really like this bridge. The map as a whole has a really nice layout to it, with the little islands and the outskirts of the city and all.
Maybe some concrete foundations to keep back the earth would help? Like this:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/MG0HEtv.jpg[/t]
I hope you can find some value in the tips and suggestions I gave you, and that I have not been too negative; that's not my intention at all. If you need any help with this map or mapping in general, feel free to send me a PM or hit me up on steam,
I'm curious to see how you'll improve this and potential other maps you might hopefully make in the future :)
Wow, Marble.That was excellent. I appreciate the thoroughness of your input.
I think I will go through with much of your advice, but lack the patience for fine tuning :cry:
Some of the buildings were taken from VMFs I found online since I am a lazy builder with urban scaping but I definitely want to go through and touch those up.
I plan on definitely:
-Redoing the bunker now, going to just get rid of the displacement.
-Adding to bridge abudments
-Brushwork on island work
-Redo a few buildings
-Container cleanup (Going into maritime industry so I should have made them neater, thought the angle was a break up from the squares!)
-Redo roads and lower them slightly
I changed the texture of the grass but will keep it simple.
Once again thanks!
You're welcome :)
Just had some spare time to fill, and useful criticism is something this subforum can always benefit of
[IMG]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/110733697251426359/242EAF4E8F2D82E186931A529DCA97A2295E80D1/[/IMG]
Starting to add some detail and a train station to it following your input.
Still running on fast compiling which is taking about 25 minutes.
[QUOTE=Mermit;51532093][IMG]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/110733697251426359/242EAF4E8F2D82E186931A529DCA97A2295E80D1/[/IMG]
Starting to add some detail and a train station to it following your input.
Still running on fast compiling which is taking about 25 minutes.[/QUOTE]
Use the Cordon tool and cut out major areas when you're fast testing areas you're working on. That way you're just testing sections at a time.
One thing to note: I can't help but notice that every building is separated from one another. Most cities will have buildings that press up against each other, and alleyways only existing when necessary. Look up "infill" for ideas.
[QUOTE=Marbledemon;51522291]-snip-
Bad texture for fences. If you really want sheetmetal fences, try a rustier, more worn texture, and add proper supports on the back:
[/QUOTE]
For a quick and dirty way of achieving this, Valve typically uses metal mesh fences and puts a brush covering on one side (whatever the "outside" of the fence is).
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