The game finally saw it fit to grant me the Gunboats several days ago, and I've been having good fun with them whenever I feel like using them. Of course, every time I do, every bigot in the server feels the need to inform me that they're useless. That's great, but I think I'll be fine, thanks. And now that PandaPooPs has updated his [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYC0zYUUB_A]Soldier tutorial[/url], I wondered what he had to say on the Gunboats. As expected, he considers them useless since they just aren't as viable an option as the shotgun or the Buff Banner. His recommended loadouts are exactly what I used before I had the Gunboats.
The worst part of all this, though, is that now that I'm looking at it I'm tending to agree to an extent. They're very fun to use, but a situation that calls for choosing them as a serious replacement for the shotgun or Buff Banner is VERY rarely manifested. They're good for pretty much Badwater Basin and only on defense...and that's only if your team is small or spread out, i.e. not too receptive to a Buff Banner.
So to sum the situation up: most Soldiers think the Gunboats are useless. I don't entirely agree, but I definitely see where they're coming from. The shotgun is very important for defending yourself and the Buff Banner is like an entirely new kind of UberCharge and is now essential in pushes for both offense and defense. I've been reminded, however, of what the Gunboats were before we got them in the update. They were also a Demoman item. I've started thinking about their use as a Demoman item, and they are decidedly far more useful for a defensive Demoman on a map with a high ceiling.
Think about it. They would replace the grenade launcher, which really isn't much for a lot of Demomen anyway since they like to battle with just stickybombs. I don't necessarily condone abandoning the grenade launcher, but think of what heights you could get to if you could triple-sticky-jump and still have plenty of health for survival. That or multiple double-sticky-jumps. You'd pretty much be an airborne Demoman and you could choose any spot on any map to camp out on and rain death from. All those high-up perches that cost a dear amount of health to get to would become routine for the Gunboat-ing Demoman. You could easily launch far behind enemy lines and shower them in stickybombs. Provided you aren't shot up that much, you could also launch back to your team to recharge and have another go. The possibilities sound really great when you think about it.
And that's why I'm sad. The Soldiers who participated in the war were so persistent and triumphant, yet now that they finally have their reward, they're tossing it off to the side. It feels like a huge waste. Prior to the update, Dario Casali, a Valve mapper, said that the secret fourth item would far better complement the Demoman's playstyle than the Soldier's. It turns out he was right, and it's making me sad that the community worked so hard to create this fate for the Gunboats.
I'm not whining or trying to say we need to get it changed or anything, I'm just making a retrospective observation and sharing my opinion on it. What do you guys think? I'd like to see the agree/disagree ratio on this one, especially given that very early "Gunboats are useless" threads that cropped up just after the update came out were met with large amounts of disagrees.
Not saying this is a "Gunboats are useless" thread, though. :P Think of it more as a "Gunboats would be more useful if the Demoman had them".
Don't say that we didn't tell you so.
All of the people with inside sources said that it would be cooler on the Demoman.
You already mentioned Dario, but people on tf2maps like Youme (the faggot he is) have said this.
But no, because lolsoldiers.
You were warned.
You chose your fate.
Now don't cry about it.
I agree.
Hey, people on the Soldier side didn't know what they were fighting for. I think it's safe to say we were all pretty disappointed with the Gunboats and WAR update conclusion.
Oh stop your whining[img]http://candy.roalviro.com/Images/sarcMark.png[/img]
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;19816195]Don't say that we didn't tell you so.
All of the people with inside sources said that it would be cooler on the Demoman.
You already mentioned Dario, but people on tf2maps like Youme (the faggot he is) have said this.
But no, because lolsoldiers.
You were warned.
You chose your fate.
Now don't cry about it.[/QUOTE]
how were we supposed to know what was the unlock before the war ended
The update page even lampshades it.
[quote=Soldier]Gentlemen, I have NO IDEA what this weapon is. I don’t even know if I’ll WANT it. But BY GOD, I know what’s IMPORTANT, and it’s that WE get it and the DEMOMAN DOES NOT.[/quote]
Turns out that he didn't want them after all.
[QUOTE=Crazy_Farmer;19816262]how were we supposed to know what was the unlock before the war ended[/QUOTE]
[quote]Prior to the update, Dario Casali, a Valve mapper, said that the secret fourth item would far better complement the Demoman's playstyle than the Soldier's.[/quote]
:eng101:
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;19816195]
You were warned.
You chose your fate.
Now don't cry about it.[/QUOTE]
Cool be an ass gj
I regret this too, ever since the update came out I've been playing waaay more demoman
[QUOTE=Crazy_Farmer;19816262]how were we supposed to know what was the unlock before the war ended[/QUOTE]
You weren't.
But when Valve employees and some other people say "The Demoman's version is better, trust us.", then it's your fault for not listening.
[editline]01:03AM[/editline]
On the Bright side, by winning you denied the Demoman a useful weapon, so that is a victory in itself, right?
I have to agree with you on this, they would be a much better demoman item.
Maybe they will be fwends again and Soldier will share them...?
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;19816290]You weren't.
But when Valve employees and some other people say "The Demoman's version is better, trust us.", then it's your fault for not listening[/QUOTE]
I assumed it was propaganda!
[QUOTE=NeoDement;19816334]I assumed it was propaganda![/QUOTE]
Well hindsight is always 20/20, now isn't it?
Maybe as a misc weapon it would be a bit too mad.
As a Demoman WHAT WOULD IT REPLACE?
Since I now have all of Solly's new weapons I may as well see how they fare in a game.
[QUOTE=xpod1;19816345]As a Demoman WHAT WOULD IT REPLACE?[/QUOTE]
Can you read?
Apparently not, but having an Eyelander with jumping boots is silly.
Silly, but able to press Medieval wars.
Gunboats would be more useful if they traded off for his melee. If the Demo got them they'd remove his grenade launcher, leaving stickies or Chargelander
Stickies+boats would be easy to counter as he has no close-range defense. Chargelander+boats would be absolutely pointless as he wouldn't have the ability to jump (or even be a demo at that point) Stickies+Eyelander+boats would be almost viable, but weapons don't complement each other at all
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;19816290]You weren't.
But when Valve employees and some other people say "The Demoman's version is better, trust us.", then it's your fault for not listening.
[editline]01:03AM[/editline]
On the Bright side, by winning you denied the Demoman a useful weapon, so that is a victory in itself, right?[/QUOTE]
I really don't recall that but I didn't play much during the war anyways
I agree with you, since the update, i didnt find the gunboats quite practical to use. I also agree with what you say about the sticky jumps, as i like to sticky jump, but the explosions just chew up too much health.
If you are good with 'Nade jumping, then the Targe's damage reduction could be a pseudo-Gunboat.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oxmfPvN1aA[/media]
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;19816472]If you are good with 'Nade jumping, then the Targe's damage reduction could be a pseudo-Gunboat.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but he probably would not have his "'nades". Gunboats replace the Soldier's secondary, so they probably would for the Demo
[QUOTE=Helelos;19816492]Yes, but he probably would not have his "'nades". Gunboats replace the Soldier's secondary, so they probably would for the Demo[/QUOTE]
Sounds fair.
The gunboats would replace his Grenade Launcher, of course.
But he doesn't have gunboats.
This is an alternative.
[QUOTE=Helelos;19816439]Gunboats would be more useful if they traded off for his melee. If the Demo got them they'd remove his grenade launcher, leaving stickies or Chargelander
Stickies+boats would be easy to counter as he has no close-range defense. Chargelander+boats would be absolutely pointless as he wouldn't have the ability to jump (or even be a demo at that point) Stickies+Eyelander+boats would be almost viable, but weapons don't complement each other at all[/QUOTE]
boats = melee
eyelander = melee
boats + eyelander loadout is impossible.
It would never happen, though.
There will always be a melee weapon available, this way the player isn't totally screwed when he's out of ammo.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;19816681]It would never happen, though.
There will always be a melee weapon available, this way the player isn't totally screwed when he's out of ammo.[/QUOTE]
If that's directed at me, I'm just pointing out a flaw in his example, not saying the 'boats should replace melee. >_>
Wasn't directed at anyone, really. I was just pointing out one of Valve's philosophies.
If anything, I was supporting your point.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;19816733]Wasn't directed at anyone, really. I was just pointing out one of Valve's philosophies.
If anything, I was supporting your point.[/QUOTE]
Oh, alright.
Thanks, I guess? :v:
I really think the Gunboats should have been made in a way that both sides could use it. Like, Valve would have started to rig the numbers near the end, and it'd end in an eventual tie. Therefore, both classes would have benefitted through a cool little TF2 comic and bring the War! update to a satisfying conclusion.
It seems retarded for making such a good unlock that was made for both classes and just restricting it to one.
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