The Sandman needs it's old stats back. - Games

I'm so sick of everyone bitching about the Scout, and the Sandman is the worst area of the complaint department. The worst part is, they bitch because the Sandman stops them from getting a kill. Did you ever wonder that this was the purpose of the Sandman? Picture this: You're running down a tight corridor as a scout, with a pyro behind you. He's close, and he's flaming the fuck out of you. Try and kill him, but it'll all depend on luck. You'll never outrun him, since you'll be dead by the time you reach your destination anyway. So what option is there? If you only you could stop him, by stunning him for a short enough time for you to get away. This is where the Sandman comes in. The scout is weak as fuck, he can die easily from almost anything. The Sandman was meant to stop this by allowing him to slow you down and get away from your attacks, and sometimes even get a kill in to stop them completely. Not to mention the support capabilities, the Sandman could stop a heavy, or medic, so your team could advance and push through without the firepower from the enemy. To me, the reason why everyone bitches is because when they get stunned they die, or they can't get a free kill from a scout. Honestly, Valve should have reduced the stun time, not removing it completely so you can walk, pretty much eliminating the entire purpose of the weapon. Even if they don't attack, they can still follow you at the same speed and wound/kill you anyway. I have no idea if this will make sense, I'm pissed off so whatever. tl;dr The Sandman needs to get nerfed even more

I suggest bringing back the original stun, but removing the uber stun, since that basically makes Medics worthless in pushing, if the enemy team has even a single scout who hangs back at points and Engineer nests.

Yeah, the uber stun was dumb, but removing the stun completely was utterly stupid.

No, the sandman needs to be removed/replaced entirely. At least, the stunning mechanic does. Valve should realise that after implementing it, tweaking it over and over, and still not having a decent balanced weapon, that the idea doesn't work. It's one of those things that's always going to be unbalanced, unfun and undesirable. Just make it do something else entirely, or replace the entire weapon. As it stands, it's in the same league as the Force of Nature and Bonk. Not overpowered, and no decent player will ever use it.

[QUOTE=Jebus;20039217]As it stands, it's in the same league as the [b]Force of Nature[/b] and Bonk. [b]Not overpowered[/b], and no decent player will ever use it.[/QUOTE] Ahahahahahahahahahahaa... No.

[QUOTE=Jebus;20039217]No, the sandman needs to be removed/replaced entirely. At least, the stunning mechanic does. Valve should realise that after implementing it, tweaking it over and over, and still not having a decent balanced weapon, that the idea doesn't work. It's one of those things that's always going to be unbalanced, unfun and undesirable. Just make it do something else entirely, or replace the entire weapon. As it stands, it's in the same league as the Force of Nature and Bonk. Not overpowered, and no decent player will ever use it.[/QUOTE] The idea of it is so the Scout doesn't get fucking owned. Honestly, have you played Scout? You get all sorts of opportunities in which you could have escaped if you had just a few seconds longer. The sandman is perfect for this, delaying the enemy so you can get away, or enough to get a final shot in and kill him. The only reason anyone would hate it is because they don't play Scout, and want a kill out of it because "OMG I GOT STUNNED AND I COULD HAVE KILLED HIM WTF NERF THIS"

[QUOTE=Lijitsu;20039291]Ahahahahahahahahahahaa... No.[/QUOTE] Scattergun is more powerful than FaN, but lacks force/triple jump and knockback.

i agree, they should revert it to the way it used to be, when it was at it's best, 95 HP and a stunball that actually stuns instead of making them go into "humiliation mode"

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;20039333]i agree, they should revert it to the way it used to be, when it was at it's best, 95 HP and a stunball that actually stuns instead of making them go into "humiliation mode"[/QUOTE] 95 HP was a great blend, because you depend on getting that stunball out if you want to live. If you didn't, you'd die instantly.

Strangely I've only now started to like the Sandman. It has many times saved me from getting killed by the only enemy that has an opportunity to stop me from escaping with the intel.

[QUOTE=Talishmar;20039323]Scattergun is more powerful than FaN, but lacks force/triple jump and knockback.[/QUOTE] The knockback is what kills you. Against a Scattergun Scout, they're going to be a bit out of melee range and blasting away, but you're still able to move around and attempt to avoid his shots. Now against a FaN, if you take 40 damage from his first shot,(Which you're pretty much going to take) he's got a clear killshot since you can't do anything to avoid his fire. It's not as bad as it used to be, but it's still overpowered.

[QUOTE=Lijitsu;20039384]The knockback is what kills you. Against a Scattergun Scout, they're going to be a bit out of melee range and blasting away, but you're still able to move around and attempt to avoid his shots. Now against a FaN, if you take 40 damage from his first shot,(Which you're pretty much going to take) he's got a clear killshot since you can't do anything to avoid his fire. It's not as bad as it used to be, but it's still overpowered.[/QUOTE] i play scout alot, FaN scouts are easy as fuck to take out with the scattergun unless they jump around like some kind of epeleptic.

I reckon bring back the Uber stun, BUT make it a "scared" stun. So if you bonk the Medic, his Uber-man will beat the living hell out of you.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;20039403]i play scout alot, FaN scouts are easy as fuck to take out with the scattergun unless they jump around like some kind of epeleptic.[/QUOTE] Yeah, FaN cannot be fired from mid air but with scattergun you can circle your enemy and jump everywhere around him.

[QUOTE=Talishmar;20039432]Yeah, FaN cannot be fired from mid air but with scattergun you can circle your enemy and jump everywhere around him.[/QUOTE] I actually prefer the FaN, you can force jump with it, not to mention in unison with the pistol it's deadly.

Valve butchered the Sandman so much.

I think the sandman should no uber stuns and no double jump, instead of -30 health or what not

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;20039333]i agree, they should revert it to the way it used to be, when it was at it's best, 95 HP and a stunball that actually stuns instead of making them go into "humiliation mode"[/QUOTE] It dosent even do this anymore. Now it just hits them like a normal projectile. I can only stun with it when i get a headshot with it. anything else and they just take some damage. EIDT: [QUOTE=ComboTroop;20039912]I think the sandman should no uber stuns and no double jump, instead of -30 health or what not[/QUOTE] Im not even going to say have you lost your mind. Im going to say HAVE YOU EVER HAD A MIND? Scout is useless without his double jump. It makes him un able to treverse the map in a way that a scout does. Sure the health minus was already a factor that made most scouts not use it, But taking away waht makes the scout class unique? THEN YOU WONT HAVE ANY SCOUTS USING THE SANDMAN AT ALL AND IT MIGHT AS WELL JUST BE REMOVED.

[QUOTE=link123175;20039950]THEN YOU WONT HAVE ANY SCOUTS USING THE SANDMAN AT ALL AND IT MIGHT AS WELL JUST BE REMOVED.[/QUOTE] Wow, you're a dumbass. I used it. Most of my buddies used it. I saw a fuck load of Scouts using it. We all used the FaN to get our double jump back. I would use it again even if I lost my double jump, but I wouldn't like it as much since I wouldn't be using the FaN. I'd say if we lost our double-jump, we should get our Uber stun ability back, but a reduced overall stun time.

How about this, for Ubers there is a reduced stun time. Also, I entirely agree, the sandman was good in stopping people where it needed most, and have the option to either get the fuck away or turn and shoot them. Now-a-days if you bop a pyro following you he'll just continue since the stun time isn't really a good thing, lasting only a second and then you're dead anyways.

Annoying =\= unbalanced. When will people learn this. After removing the ability to stun ubers the Sandman was perfectly fine. The annoyance would be limited by simply removing the ball's respawn. You either pick the thrown one up, or you get your ass back to resupply. Using it would have to be a strategical choice.

it's like making the sandman not be made out of wood anymore :C

A lot of Scouts used the stun offensively rather than for their own personal defense. [editline]02:28PM[/editline] But I agree the original Sandman was way better.

[QUOTE=Talishmar;20039323]Scattergun is more powerful than FaN, but lacks force/triple jump and knockback.[/QUOTE] Still trying to figure out what the triple jump is useful for.

It could just pause the uber meter, you know when the uber's about to run out, you start flashing, when stunned you could just do that,

[QUOTE=link123175;20039950]It dosent even do this anymore. Now it just hits them like a normal projectile. I can only stun with it when i get a headshot with it. anything else and they just take some damage. EIDT: Im not even going to say have you lost your mind. Im going to say HAVE YOU EVER HAD A MIND? Scout is useless without his double jump. It makes him un able to treverse the map in a way that a scout does. Sure the health minus was already a factor that made most scouts not use it, But taking away waht makes the scout class unique? THEN YOU WONT HAVE ANY SCOUTS USING THE SANDMAN AT ALL AND IT MIGHT AS WELL JUST BE REMOVED.[/QUOTE] The scout is ment to be the fastest class and even without his double jump, he can still be quite effective, it also helps in a way, cause then you can keep jumping like bunnyhopping and now with the addition of the direct hit, you have to be careful for those sharpshooters that can get you in midair

Before they fucked the stun it was perfect.

dude, valve cares too much with the nerfy bitches, that they fuck the only weapon scout shouldn't have been nerf'd. FaN is the one they should nerf, or just STFU and learn to lose. since you don't win every time.

The new stun (ghost disarm animation) is just lame. So much bitching about stuns ruined a useful and fun weapon I solely blame the Steam forums, they consist of nothing but idiotic kids and autistic man-children

I think they should have added something else, but well, they didn't, so we have to live with the Sandman there. I bet people are still going to bitch about it even after TF3 is released.