Backburner Buff Suggestion - Games

I suddenly had an epiphany yesterday. If you've read Douglass Adams's Hitchhiker's Guide series, ou may remember a peculiar cloaking device that blocks people from seeing the ship it's equipped on except in their perefrial (sp?) vision. How about adapting this concept to the BB? The Backburner +100% Crits from behind +While standing still, enemies can't see you if directly aiming at you -No airblast So a sort of psuedo-cloak to help in ambushes. They may notice you, but if you keep your cool and don't move they might keep walking. OR Make it so that while holding still they can ONLY see you if directly aiming at you. Anyway, I think the BB just needs some help being stealthy.

Maybe you are a bit transparent, but not a full cloak. That would be cheap.

"Directly aiming" would make it totally useless. Maybe the pyro's visibility would adjust related on how close it is to the observer's crosshair (further = less visible), and have it active not when standing still, but when ducking at any time?

This could work if the Backburner's lighter emitted a slightly more distinct sound: would encourage people to pay attention to what they're hearing, could make the Pyro more of a "support" class as he could be more effective if teammates are around and distracting the enemies.

The Backburner should somehow increase the Pyro's mobility. I figure that this would be the best way to go about buffing it. You would be sacrificing a useful ability for enhanced mobility. It would make the Backburner a more specialized offensive weapon, and the regular flamer more specialized for area defense. I'm not sure how this should be done, though. Should the Pyro have increased speed? Should he be able to jump higher? Should he be able to use the flamer as a makeshift jet pack? Whatever it should be, it should be a great enough change to choose it over the immensely useful airblast. Also, it should support the ambush play style that it already has going for it. Ultimately it should allow the Pyro to get into an ambush position quickly and should allow him to pull them off and get out quickly. All these things considered, I think that a speed buff would be the best course of action. Also, giving the Pyro a sort of cloak in any fashion is a terrible idea in my opinion. That ability should belong to the Spy and the Spy only. Just like how when someone suggests a weapon for another class that can set people on fire, I say it's a bad idea. The Pyro should be the only class to be able to set people on fire.

it's already annoying as fuck, i think it should be removed because it encourages w+m1ing (its my opinion)

Just make the Pyro hold the backburner upwards while standing still, then it'd be useful. (Either automatically or Mouse 2 while standing still.) (OR just Mouse 2 whenever you want to, but this'd obviously disable the flamethrower until you press Mouse 2 again to make the Pyro hold it properly again.)

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;19975058]it's already annoying as fuck, i think it should be removed because it encourages w+m1ing (its my opinion)[/QUOTE] it encourages the opposite when you're GUARANTEED no crits (except against retards who turn around)

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;19975058]it's already annoying as fuck, i think it should be removed because it encourages w+m1ing (its my opinion)[/QUOTE] It encourages [U]smart[/U] w+m1ing. It encourages smartly ambushing the enemy by getting behind their lines and ambushing them from behind. Think of it as being a Spy, but without the luxury of a cloak and disguise kit. What is the best way to get from a hiding spot to your enemy's back? By pressing the forward button. By saying that this is noobish is asinine because it is actually pretty tough to correctly pull off an ambush. I don't think that the Backburner is a rubbish weapon, not at all. I think it's an excellent weapon. The only problem is is that the normal flamer is all around better. Again, it's not that the BB is bad, it's just that the normal flamer is better. There are some select situations where the BB is in fact the better weapon. It's great for the defensive-offensive role, where you are roaming away from the area that you are defending. I sometimes use it on Dustbowl to cut off reinforcements before they get to the point. It's good for attacking en-masse, as it cuts through even over-healed Heavies before they have time to react. It's not good for defensive defense where you are staying with the area you are defending, though.

[QUOTE=NeoDement;19975083]it encourages the opposite when you're GUARANTEED no crits (except against retards who turn around)[/QUOTE] Except every pyro I see with it simply charges at you head-on regardless of how hard you're hitting them. EVERY backburner pyro does this. [editline]10:52AM[/editline] [QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;19975151]It encourages [U]smart[/U] w+m1ing. It encourages smartly ambushing the enemy by getting behind their lines and ambushing them from behind. Think of it as being a Spy, but without the luxury of a cloak and disguise kit. What is the best way to get from a hiding spot to your enemy's back? By pressing the forward button. By saying that this is noobish is asinine because it is actually pretty tough to correctly pull off an ambush. I don't think that the Backburner is a rubbish weapon, not at all. I think it's an excellent weapon. The only problem is is that the normal flamer is all around better. Again, it's not that the BB is bad, it's just that the normal flamer is better. There are some select situations where the BB is in fact the better weapon. It's great for the defensive-offensive role, where you are roaming away from the area that you are defending. I sometimes use it on Dustbowl to cut off reinforcements before they get to the point. It's good for attacking en-masse, as it cuts through even over-healed Heavies before they have time to react. It's not good for defensive defense where you are staying with the area you are defending, though.[/QUOTE] Actually, it's the opposite. The backburner is an ambushing weapon. You're supposed to stay off to the side when the other team rushes, then wheel in behind them burning their backs, keeping your finger off the fire button until you know they'll get hit. [editline]10:53AM[/editline] It's a defensive-defensive, as you would call it. You're supposed to stick around the area you're defending, and then destroy anyone who is in that area.

[QUOTE=FunnyGamer;19975303]Actually, it's the opposite. The backburner is an ambushing weapon. You're supposed to stay off to the side when the other team rushes, then wheel in behind them burning their backs, keeping your finger off the fire button until you know they'll get hit.[/QUOTE] Except that's not what people use it for. And that pisses me off.

Maybe to activate the cloak you right click?

You know, what does the cloak have to do with the Pyro concept. You're supposed to be attacking, even more if you have the Backburner, and you don't stand still while attacking.

Pyro is not a Spy Or is he?? [img]http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww277/DemonDog_13/nf31gp.gif[/img]

Perhaps only if the Pyro's pseudo-cloak was the cloak effect caused by running out of charge when cloaked with the Cloak and Dagger, and it slowly drained his Backburner ammo supply whilst doing so. Or maybe it could simply silence his footsteps and Backburner. And an unrelated note, the SEP field caused by the [I]Bistromath[/I] causes humans to simply ignore it as someone would an ant on the sidewalk, because the ship isn't the humans' problem. The Pyro, on the other hand, IS the enemy team's problem and so the SEP field wouldn't work.

You know what I immediately thought when I saw the Backburner for the first time? I thought it was a backwards flamethrower, because of the name, and also because the dragon head vaguely looked like the flamethrower's handle when looked at from far away. So yeah, here's the idea, instead of removing the airblast altogether, why not make it into a backwards airblast? Instead of pushing players and projectiles, it would propel you forwards instead. Not upwards because an airblast jumping Pyro would absolutely piss everyone off, just forwards to give you some extra speed, so you can run after a weakened fleeing enemy. Additionally, nerf the non-crit damage to hell, so no beginner ever uses it anymore, because it makes mindless W+M1ing utterly useless. This would make it into a much more technical weapon, which has pretty much the same use as the Chargin' Targe, except it doesn't regenerate and costs ammo instead. A really massive problem I keep encountering when trying to get a fleeing enemy from behind is that they usually turn around at the last moment and blow the shit out of me. This is a problem you don't have when playing Demoman because the Targe makes you get into melee range before your foe can even react. Plus, much like when using the Targe, you can use it to flee after an ambush, provided you have enough fuel left for that. The airblast boost shouldn't be really as noticeable as a Targe charge, it's more like a third of a rocket jump, except forwards, and it works only when you are jumping. If it's still too overpowered, lower the max fuel capacity, this encourages players even more to stop spamming and choose the right moment to jump in.

Make the Backburner short and stubby, the fucker sticks out like a massive flare.

[QUOTE=_Kilburn;19976030]You know what I immediately thought when I saw the Backburner for the first time? I thought it was a backwards flamethrower, because of the name, and also because the dragon head vaguely looked like the flamethrower's handle when looked at from far away. So yeah, here's the idea, instead of removing the airblast altogether, why not make it into a backwards airblast? Instead of pushing players and projectiles, it would propel you forwards instead. Not upwards because an airblast jumping Pyro would absolutely piss everyone off, just forwards to give you some extra speed, so you can run after a weakened fleeing enemy. Additionally, nerf the non-crit damage to hell, so no beginner ever uses it anymore, because it makes mindless W+M1ing utterly useless. This would make it into a much more technical weapon, which has pretty much the same use as the Chargin' Targe, except it doesn't regenerate and costs ammo instead. A really massive problem I keep encountering when trying to get a fleeing enemy from behind is that they usually turn around at the last moment and blow the shit out of me. This is a problem you don't have when playing Demoman because the Targe makes you get into melee range before your foe can even react. Plus, much like when using the Targe, you can use it to flee after an ambush, provided you have enough fuel left for that. The airblast boost shouldn't be really as noticeable as a Targe charge, it's more like a third of a rocket jump, except forwards, and it works only when you are jumping. If it's still too overpowered, lower the max fuel capacity, this encourages players even more to stop spamming and choose the right moment to jump in.[/QUOTE] This is a good idea that goes with the mobility suggestion I gave earlier, and I think that it should be explored. (Maybe you could code a concept using your TF2 Gamemode as a base?) However, I disagree with a bit of it. I disagree with the lowered ammo count as it is [U]supposed[/U] to be spammed. That's the nature of the weapon. If the count was halved, it would be useless. using at least 25 ammo to jump into position and 25 to jump out limits your ammo to 50, which is not a terribly large amount. Also, it would probably take more than 2 jumps to get to safety if it were to follow what you said in a typical situation. At it's current ammo level, the jumps would limit themselves. About nerfing frontal damage to hell, I thought about that for a bit. At first I rejected it, but now that I think about it it might not be a bad idea. If the current damage base is 6.8 per particle, then half of that, a substantial nerf, would be 3.4 per particle. At point blank that would be 225 DPS, as opposed to 450 DPS. That sounds reasonable. It would still do good damage in the middle of an ambush after you got initial crit damage in, and it would make frontal attacks completely useless, and would also make it useless for area defense, further specializing the regular flamer to the defensive roll that (I personally feel) it should have. Also, what do you feel about modified afterburn? What about having increased afterburn damage, or longer afterburn time? I believe the current afterburn rate is 3 damage per tick, giving 6 damage per second. What if it was increased to 3.5 damage per tick, giving 7 damage per second? Or what if afterburn length was increased to 1.5* it's current length? I'm not sure how long it currently lasts, though. However it would be done, I feel that it would encourage a "hit and run" style ambush, allowing the Pyro to use smaller amounts of time to do more damage. I'm not sure if altering the afterburn is a good idea, though. [editline]12:18PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Shibbey;19976031]Make the Backburner short and stubby, the fucker sticks out like a massive flare.[/QUOTE] Switch weapons to the axe while you are hiding.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;19976346] Switch weapons to the axe while you are hiding.[/QUOTE] Increase the weapon switch time for both flame throwers, and possibly other "heavy" weapons too.

Backburner needs a wider hitbox on the back (same as Spy), but any damage dealt in the front is much weaker and afterburn would deal as much as it does to a Chargelander demo

what about sentries would they be able to see him?

[QUOTE=Skidd;19975081]Just make the Pyro hold the backburner upwards while standing still, then it'd be useful. (Either automatically or Mouse 2 while standing still.) (OR just Mouse 2 whenever you want to, but this'd obviously disable the flamethrower until you press Mouse 2 again to make the Pyro hold it properly again.)[/QUOTE] Nobody has absolutely anything to say about this?

I played a server where crouch+right click with Backburner equipped made you disguise as a barrel Naruto-style, with the Pyro's occasional giggling the only thing distinguishing you from "just a prop..." I found it cute [i]and[/i] helpful.

[QUOTE=Skidd;19977137]Nobody has absolutely anything to say about this?[/QUOTE] Switch weapons to axe.

No.

I dunno about anyone else but whenever I jump over something as pyro I'm compelled to look down and shoot as if I were propelling myself.

I think a cool way to increase maneuverability with the back burner is if you give the back burner push back from the flames only on the user. For example you can jump from high places without taking fall damage but will burn through your ammo. It could also let you do longer or higher jumps. For higher jumps i think the height of a double jump would be good, but you can't do both at once.

make it airblast. that's all.

A cloaking Pyro? No thanks.

A cloaked spy could tell the cloaked pyro when the other team has passed by for optimum ambush efficiency. Pyro and spy buddies? Too good to be true.