There should be a way of non-engineers to be able to unsap buildables. - Games

I feel so bad watching an innocent engineers sentry die because of a stab n sap, even if I kill the spy. I think pyro's airblast, heavys fists, or spy's anything should be able to. Just a little idea.

I agree with the first sentence, but this implantation would diminish the Sappers practicallity to a bare minimum, far too less to be acceptable.

That would be pretty good, as long as other classes do less damage to the sapper than engineers, It could easilly be balanced.

It would make the job of the spy horribly hard and the job of the engi horribly easy

That would make destroying buildings as a spy hard as hell

Only Engineers can remove Sappers because otherwise a Spy would never be able to destroy a well-guarded Sentry.

The success of the sapper is in the respawn time of the Engineer, so whilst I would find this idea useful, it really serves to make the sapper less effective.

How about it could lower the destruction speed by 25% or something like that?

A Sapper nerf is unjustified. Level 3 Sentries are nearly invulnerable with an Engie at the helm, and are one of the most powerful defensive weapons in the entire game when placed in the right location. Not to mention, two to three Engies repairing the same Sentry is effectively a mechanical Ubercharge. If anything needs a nerf (but I disdain the notion), the Sentry probably does, but it's power is so great that a nerf would be an insult to Engie's potency. All in all, Sapper is perfectly fine: it is the skill, reaction time and awareness of the Engie at the helm that is the defining edge. If you aren't fast, you will feel cold steel perforate your spinal column, and watch in horror as your child slowly dies. If you ARE fast, you can pin the Spy against the wall with your Wrench at his throat after you smash the Sapper. In other words, it's not the Sapper that's OP, it is your skill as an Engie, and your mandatory paranoia and awareness that needs brushing up on.

Like the Engie doesn't get enough kills, we don't need to make it any easier.

[QUOTE=Smirnoff Joe;17551897]A Sapper nerf is unjustified. Level 3 Sentries are nearly invulnerable with an Engie at the helm, and are one of the most powerful defensive weapons in the entire game when placed in the right location. Not to mention, two to three Engies repairing the same Sentry is effectively a mechanical Ubercharge. If anything needs a nerf (but I disdain the notion), the Sentry probably does, but it's power is so great that a nerf would be an insult to Engie's potency. All in all, Sapper is perfectly fine: it is the skill, reaction time and awareness of the Engie at the helm that is the defining edge. If you aren't fast, you will feel cold steel perforate your spinal column, and watch in horror as your child slowly dies. If you ARE fast, you can pin the Spy against the wall with your Wrench at his throat after you smash the Sapper. In other words, it's not the Sapper that's OP, it is your skill as an Engie, and your mandatory paranoia and awareness that needs brushing up on.[/QUOTE]I lol'd

[QUOTE=LetsGroove;17552137]Like the Engie doesn't get enough kills, we don't need to make it any easier.[/QUOTE] Did I hear that right? Did somebody just say that playing Engineer is [b]easy[/b]? Engineer is, in my opinion, the second hardest job in the game right now. Everybody and their brother these days can wipe out a sentry nest without batting an eye. Sure, an Engineer can excel and keep a base defended if he has team support, but that doesn't happen too often and lone Engineers are easily destroyed very soon after creating their nest. Without another teammate standing directly nearby to assist in fighting off attackers, Engineer nests can be taken out easily by just about any class. Scout - Pistol from afar can do it if the Engineer has his stuff spaced out enough. If not, then Sandman the Engineer/use Bonk! to run up to the sentry and the rest of the attacking team get a free ticket to send the sentry to the scrapyard. Soldier - This is easy. If you can stand just out of range or around the corner and spam rockets, the sentry is gone fairly quickly or at least heavily weakened. Soldiers are common UberCharge targets, so it's fairly common to have a single Soldier destroy multiple sentries due to being ubered. Pyro - If the Pyro can get at the right out-of-range angle, his constant burning will destroy the sentry easily, especially since the flames travel through the sentry and burn the Engineer at the same time. Level 1 setups stand NO chance against a Pyro. Demoman - Probably the easiest one. Find a safe spot to lob stickies and you're golden. Being ubered just makes it that much easier, like Soldier. Engineer - Okay, so it may be hard for Engineers to take out other Engineers' sentry nests, but how often do you even see that happen? Offensive Engineers have other things to worry about, like maintaining the team teleporter or setting up sentry ambush points to slow the flow of defenders. Heavy - The right angle, teammates attacking at the same time, or the common uber will allow the Heavy's Minigun to plow right through any sentry. Sniper - Huntsman Snipers can destroy any sentry in two shots if the Engineer isn't there to immediately heal the damage. Even then, one Huntsman shot can really ruin a sentry if another teammate is firing at it at the same time. Regular Snipers can take out the nest from afar by staying out of range and sniping the Engineer when he comes into view. Medic - Contrary to popular belief, the Syringe Gun is a force to be reckoned with and is very handy for dealing with sentries should the enemy team be too stupid to help the poor Engineer. Syringes can arc and thus can reach many places that the Medic can't see. A constant stream of syringes can be a dire threat to any Engineer's setup. Spy - Lastly, the master of disguise can take out a sentry very easily, even if it ends up in his death. Stab the Engineer, then quickly sap the sentry. Bam, the sentry's pretty much done for unless another Engineer notices it. The Spy can even shoot the sentry a few times to speed up the process and on top of that, the sapper disables the sentry. This means while it's being sapped, the rest of the Spy's team can charge right in and destroy everything themselves. Engineer is goddamn difficult to play anymore. They helped by letting us upgrade all three buildables, but it's still difficult given the time and metal it takes to upgrade all three. That's not to say the OP's idea is good...it's terrible. I mentioned that sappers can devastate a setup, but they can just as easily be countered by a smart Engineer. Both the idea that playing Engineer is easy and that sappers need a nerf are :downs:.

rage much?

[QUOTE=Shugo;17552838] Spy - Lastly, the master of disguise can take out a sentry very easily, even if it ends up in his death. Stab the Engineer, then quickly sap the sentry. Bam, the sentry's pretty much done for unless another Engineer notices it. The Spy can even shoot the sentry a few times to speed up the process and on top of that, the sapper disables the sentry. This means while it's being sapped, the rest of the Spy's team can charge right in and destroy everything themselves.[/QUOTE] All in all, I'd say that the Spy is probably the least threatening class to the Engineer, except perhaps the Scout and other Engineers. Stab & saps are incredibly easy to counter with two simple methods. A: Stand away from the Sentry (although a crafty Spy will wait until their team starts attacking and the Engy goes to repair his Sentry) B: Have two Sentries in the same spot And sappers take too damn long to destroy a Sentry IMO. One time, on Gravelpit C, I had an Engy fall off the point and I sapped his sentry. He got back just in time to save it. So, I decide to try again. He falls off yet again, so I sap and start shooting the Sentry. He makes it back up, crit wrenches me, and saves the sentry when it has 1 health left. :argh: Pretty much every other tactic a Spy can use is easily countered by having teammates even kind of sort of near your Sentry, by enlisting a hideous abomination against the very nature of humanity, or by using your gun/magical instakill wrench. The only thing you really have to worry about is getting Ambassador'd, and that shouldn't happen if you take cover like someone who's not a retard.

Every one knows the engieneers sappe removal speed is 50%, as he has to give 2 hits. If we do go through with this, shoulden't we have all other classes 5%? Wait thats only 10 hits. I good scout might get that done, and even 2-3 heavies. Hmmmm... I still think 5% is good enough. Most of the time you find a sapped friendly sentry its already sparking/burning, and no engie around. The only peole thats ever been there when I see it is probaly a scout, just staring at it, or a pyro going REALLY crazy, or a engie just missing his sentry as it blows up.

i got 1 word that describes how i feel about your idea Gentel manne: No

Maybe friendly sappers could sap sappers, and that'd sap the sapping length which shall not get shorter but longer. (Sssss time boy!)

But then sappers would be to weak, yet there should be a 1 second cool down before putting another on.

Engie is very weak at the moment, any Tom, Dick or Harry with a sticky launcher can take a sentry out, no problem.

[QUOTE=nrgata;17556251]But then sappers would be to weak, yet there should be a 1 second cool down before putting another on.[/QUOTE] A thousand times no. Putting sappers on and on and on is one of the only ways to destroy a good engie's base.

[QUOTE=NotPigeon;17553535] B: Have two Sentries in the same spot [/QUOTE] 1. Sap both 2. Sap, stab, Dead Ringer, sap again if needed

[QUOTE=NotPigeon;17553535]All in all, I'd say that the Spy is probably the least threatening class to the Engineer, except perhaps the Scout and other Engineers. Stab & saps are incredibly easy to counter with two simple methods. [B]A: Stand away from the Sentry (although a crafty Spy will wait until their team starts attacking and the Engy goes to repair his Sentry)[/B] B: Have two Sentries in the same spot And sappers take too damn long to destroy a Sentry IMO. One time, on Gravelpit C, I had an Engy fall off the point and I sapped his sentry. He got back just in time to save it. So, I decide to try again. He falls off yet again, so I sap and start shooting the Sentry. He makes it back up, crit wrenches me, and saves the sentry when it has 1 health left. :argh: Pretty much every other tactic a Spy can use is easily countered by having teammates even kind of sort of near your Sentry, by enlisting a hideous abomination against the very nature of humanity, or by using your gun/magical instakill wrench. The only thing you really have to worry about is getting Ambassador'd, and that shouldn't happen if you take cover like someone who's not a retard.[/QUOTE] dumb idea, if the spy has the dead ringer he'll just come back a second after backstabbing you and sap your shit

fuck no. I cant count how many times ive been on shitty instant respawn servers, killing the engineer and sapping his shit, onlyto find out he came right back out of spawn a second later and unsapped the fucking teleporter. so nowi have to sit on the exit and continuously sap it, exposing a total vulnerability to anything that comes my way in the meantime

The problem isn't in the engineer, it's in the playing community. Let me explain. In the TF2 community, pretty much everyone constantly gets better. However, the sentry, being a npm (non-player machine) has a static effectiveness, requiring the engineer to improve drastically in order to compensate.

[QUOTE=AxisofIdiocy;17558447]fuck no. I cant count how many times ive been on shitty instant respawn servers, killing the engineer and sapping his shit, onlyto find out he came right back out of spawn a second later and unsapped the fucking teleporter. so nowi have to sit on the exit and continuously sap it, exposing a total vulnerability to anything that comes my way in the meantime[/QUOTE] dont play on shitty insta respawn servers

[QUOTE=Crazy_Farmer;17558181]dumb idea, if the spy has the dead ringer he'll just come back a second after backstabbing you and sap your shit[/QUOTE] If you're standing near the Sentry, he should be gibbed before he gets the chance. Or, you could- you know- not get backstabbed. It's easy with the magic of [b]turning around[/b]. [editline]09:05PM[/editline] [QUOTE=ZestyLemons;17558007]1. Sap both 2. Sap, stab, Dead Ringer, sap again if needed[/QUOTE] 2 Sentries = 2 Engies. If two Engies can't shoot or wrench a Spy in the time it takes him to completely sap their sentries, they deserve to have their toys murdered.

If any player can destroy a sapper, then spies should be able to sap players too.

The sapper needs a buff - 50% faster sapping speed or something. I feels like an eternity watching the sapper destroy even a teleporter, let alone a sentry.

You should be able to "Fine-tune" your sentry. You'd get 9 points to choose between adding to Turning speed, Range and Health, with three points on each ability for default. High Health and Turning speed would be good for Offensive engies, and High Health and Range would be for Defensive sentries, whereas the Default would be good for anything. This would make lone sentries easier to defend whilst also reducing the effectiveness of multiple sentries in an area.

Yes let's make it even harder for spies