Having set hats is a good thing. - Games

Here's why: Having a hat to complete a set is good for gameplay. It cleans up the clutter, defines subclasses, gives great ways to balance the set, and provides visual cues so you know what you're fighting. If you have to use this hat to get this set bonus, it'll clean up a lot of the clutter that's been added by restricting what can be used. A concise and easily recognizable subclass is good. If the TF2 Team is trying to create more subclasses, some definition of what weapons that should be used together is good. Some players might not think "OH! If I use ___ with ___, then I could ___!" much like jarate and the bushwacka have great synergy. In cases like the Gas Jockey's Gear, using the degreaser with the powerjack isn't so great, but the bonus movement speed makes it play completely differently than other varieties of pyro. While increasing the movement speed makes the pyro play differently, making him vulnerable to bullets and restricting the loadout that can be used with the bonus provides a wide array of tools to balance that specific sub-class. Choosing whether or not to add the hat for the set stats is another thing the player should be left to decide. "Do I WANT my cloak to work like this if I use the YER and the (s)tranger?" Each hat needs a drawback, either by directly applying it (bullet vulnerability) or restricting to a specific set (bushwacka+danger shield). It's a great way to balance a specific loadout. And we come to the most important thing the hats provide, the all important aspect of TF2's core design: Visual Cues and recognizable classes. Each of the new hats change the silhouette of each class in a defined manner. The Fez spy can easily be picked out from any other variety of spy at a distance, as can milkman scout and the level 34 Heavy Druid. It reinforces the concept of the subclass and provides information to everybody on the server that "Hey, this guy is using ___ loadout and ___ set bonus." The set hats can be great for this game, but we have a few problems with them at the moment. They don't reinforce visual cues nearly as strongly as they could because you can wear the hat with any selection of weapons. "Can I kill that sniper with a headshot, or does he have the shiv equipped?" is not be a question a player should be asking themselves. Also, Valve dun goofed and treated set hats like regular, cosmetic, rare and expensive hats, restricting their availability to players and causing drama in relation to the store. They should be just as common than weapons, or be complete freebies. They add interesting mechanics and new play-styles, but players are being limited as to what they can use. To recap, set hats are a concise way to define subclasses, balance the game, and cue other players as to what's going on.

Yes but when the sets are so uninventive and pointless like the recent new ones, I'd much rather mix and match then recieve 10% less sentry damage or some tiny change like that.

If you did this, that would mean wearing your favorite hat could could restrict your gameplay.

[QUOTE=Randdalf;26833286]Yes but when the sets are so uninventive and pointless like the recent new ones, I'd much rather mix and match then recieve 10% less sentry damage or some tiny change like that.[/QUOTE] Honestly, I agree completely and I think that what you said extends to a lot of the weapons that have been added. I can't help but feel like the reason the hats were left off the new sets was simply because of how harsh of a backlash they got for it the first time, where set hats should've worked like this. Equip Sydney Sleeper Equip Darwin's Danger Shield Equip Bushwacka *PROMPT:* Would you like to equip the hat for the set bonus? y/n The set hats don't need to be a part of the backpack at all. Edit: [QUOTE=wari65;26833366]If you did this, that would mean wearing your favorite hat could could restrict your gameplay.[/QUOTE] I'd pick my favorite loadout over my favorite hat anyday.

I don't know about you, but when I'm fighting someone I don't tend to notice or care what hat they're wearing.

[QUOTE=chain_letter;26833415]Equip Sydney Sleeper Equip Darwin's Danger Shield Equip Bushwacka *PROMPT:* Would you like to equip the hat for the set bonus? y/n The set hats don't need to be a part of the backpack at all.[/QUOTE] I don't want set bonuses at all.

The main problem is that you actually NEED the hat to enable the set, instead of it being a direct result of equipping all three pieces of inventory together

I think they made it so that you don't need the hats for these sets because the bonuses blow ass. Scout gets 25+ hp for added survivability, especially with the milk, Spy becomes near unhearable when decloaking, etc... Demoman gets 5%+ fire resistance. :colbert:

[QUOTE=GastricTank;26833550]Demoman gets 5%+ fire resistance. :colbert:[/QUOTE] Combined with the targe, how ineffective does that make pyros?

[QUOTE=wari65;26833586]Combined with the targe, how ineffective does that make pyros?[/QUOTE] 55% ineffective

[QUOTE=wari65;26833586]Combined with the targe, how ineffective does that make pyros?[/QUOTE] 5% is barely a difference. For every 20 damage you take, you take 19 damage instead. WOAAAAH. Besides, reflecting grenades and Puff n' Sting. They also have shotguns anyway. Underpowered bonuses.

Set hats should be much more common.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;26833458]I don't know about you, but when I'm fighting someone I don't tend to notice or care what hat they're wearing.[/QUOTE] That's how you know the set hats aren't doing their job. You're supposed to notice that they're wearing a set hat, then know exactly what you're facing.

I think they should make it so that you don't need a hat for a set, ever, but if you wear the hat associated with the set while using the set, you get a special particle effect/taunt/etc.

heavy's 5% less crit damage means he takes -10 dmg per crit rocket. amazin

I think set hats are good for sets that have an added [i]downside[/i] in their set bonus, like how the Pyro gets added bullet damage vulnerability or the Spy's cloak fade lasts longer. I often use the Pyro's set weapons together, but purposefully don't equip the Attendant because I'm on offense and don't wanna get ripped up by bullets. For sets that give a direct bonus you'd be an idiot to refuse, though, I don't think they need a hat. The Special Delivery Set shouldn't need the Milkman.

[QUOTE=Shugo;26833967]For sets that give a direct bonus you'd be an idiot to refuse, though, I don't think they need a hat. The Special Delivery Set shouldn't need the Milkman.[/QUOTE] The Special Delivery should also make it so it's not all upgrades.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;26834036]The Special Delivery should also make it so it's not all upgrades.[/QUOTE] All upgrades? Shortstop just isn't as good as the Scattergun Mad Milk... eh, I don't even wanna talk about losing my pistol. Fish = bat Sure is all upgrades in here.

[QUOTE=Zanpa;26834089]All upgrades? Shortstop just isn't as good as the Scattergun Mad Milk... eh, I don't even wanna talk about losing my pistol. Fish = bat Sure is all upgrades in here.[/QUOTE] Shortstop is the Scattergun combined with the pistol. Mad Milk lets you live longer. Fish... whatever. You also get more health. Out of all those +'s, there are no blatant -'s, like with the Gas Jockey's Gear.

I would write a long and constructive rant about why set hats are retarded here, but class roles and game balance are so fucked up at the moment that any time wasted on speculating on how it should be is a waste of time due to how unwilling Valve is to fix any of it either way.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;26834140]Shortstop is the Scattergun combined with the pistol. Mad Milk lets you live longer. Fish... whatever. You also get more health. Out of all those +'s, there are no blatant -'s, like with the Gas Jockey's Gear.[/QUOTE] I don't know about you, but I can always manage to beat a shortstop scout with a scattergun.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;26834140]Shortstop is the Scattergun combined with the pistol. Mad Milk lets you live longer. Fish... whatever. You also get more health. Out of all those +'s, there are no blatant -'s, like with the Gas Jockey's Gear.[/QUOTE] Yeah, as you wish. I have a few hundred hours of play as a Scout, and I can assure you that no decent Scout would play with the Shortstop. Mad milk, what. I can run away to health packs if I must, and the pistol is just too good to lose. The only plus is the +25hp part. Adimttedly, this can be worth the loss of a pistol and a not-so-good primary. But that's not a real upgrade.

[QUOTE=Simski;26834180]I would write a long and constructive rant about why set hats are retarded here, but class roles and game balance are so fucked up at the moment that any time wasted on speculating on how it should be is a waste of time due to how unwilling Valve is to fix any of it either way.[/QUOTE] After writing that, I looked back and felt like I wasted the effort.

[QUOTE=Zanpa;26834089]All upgrades? Shortstop just isn't as good as the Scattergun Mad Milk... eh, I don't even wanna talk about losing my pistol. Fish = bat Sure is all upgrades in here.[/QUOTE] Shortstop [b]is[/b] as good as the Scattergun, if not better. Mad Milk is better than the pistol, no question. Well I guess the fish isn't the Sandman but for +25 health that's a loss I'd accept. This set isn't like the Sniper or Soldier sets where the weapons balance the bonus. I don't have the Milkman hat but I usually use SS + milk + fish and it's damn good with 125hp. +25hp with [b]no[/b] downside is just ridiculous. Really, how did the Pyro set warrant a downside but this didn't?

[QUOTE=chain_letter;26834264]After writing that, I looked back and felt like I wasted the effort.[/QUOTE] There is merely nothing at all good about cosmetic items that are required items to be given a bonus without disadvantages. It discourage your freedom of choosing the cosmetic item that you like best, and it's an unfair advantage to the people with the same loadout but no hat to give them the bonus. On top of this, making the hats specifically craftable also made them lose a lot of their worth in trading.

[QUOTE=t man;26834282]Shortstop [b]is[/b] as good as the Scattergun, if not better. Mad Milk is better than the pistol, no question. Well I guess the fish isn't the Sandman but for +25 health that's a loss I'd accept. This set isn't like the Sniper or Soldier sets where the weapons balance the bonus. I don't have the Milkman hat but I usually use SS + milk + fish and it's damn good with 125hp. +25hp with [b]no[/b] downside is just ridiculous. Really, how did the Pyro set warrant a downside but this didn't?[/QUOTE] You are saying that the Sandman is better than the bat? Okay, let's just stop there, would you? You obviously don't play as a Scout often enough to realize which weapon does what.

[QUOTE=Simski;26834343]There is merely nothing at all good about cosmetic items that are required items to be given a bonus without disadvantages. It discourage your freedom of choosing the cosmetic item that you like best, and it's an unfair advantage to the people with the same loadout but no hat to give them the bonus. On top of this, making the hats specifically craftable also made them lose a lot of their worth in trading.[/QUOTE] That's one hasty generalization there. The biggest problem is that the set hats were added into TF2's ZOMG HATS culture, instead of as a mechanic that benefits the overall gameplay. If the set hats were the first hats added, then there wouldn't have been any of those problems in the first place.

[QUOTE=Zanpa;26834363]You are saying that the Sandman is better than the bat? Okay, let's just stop there, would you? You obviously don't play as a Scout often enough to realize which weapon does what.[/QUOTE] -15hp doesn't do jack shit. You can't take slightly as much DoT but everything else takes the same amount of hits to kill you. In return you gain the ability to completely remove your enemy's ability to fight back, and while they can move, it doesn't matter as Scout will nearly always be able to catch them. And if he can't, the stunned player is easy pickings for the Scout's team mates. [editline]20th December 2010[/editline] And keep in mind Scout can do this at range, with his melee weapon. Virtually no risk or sacrifice needed.

[QUOTE=t man;26834656]-15hp doesn't do jack shit. You can't take slightly as much DoT but everything else takes the same amount of hits to kill you. In return you gain the ability to completely remove your enemy's ability to fight back, and while they can move, it doesn't matter as Scout will nearly always be able to catch them. And if he can't, the stunned player is easy pickings for the Scout's team mates.[/QUOTE] Yeah, you seem to really not play a lot of Scout.

I don't mind set hats at all, as long as the sets are balanced.