So, hello guys. This thread is dedicated to discuss and create a new TF2 gamemode, based on the anime/manga Attack on Titan (Shingeki no Kyojin). The idea appeared in Reddit, and we created a [url=http://steamcommunity.com/groups/attackontitantf2] Steam Group [/url] to gather the people that were interesting in helping. After that, here I am, posting this on Facepunch so we can discuss the idea and how to make it real, and also see if there is anyone else here interested in helping, or that have coding/any technical stuff knowledge to clear some things.
And since we need to start somewhere, I've written a text that contains all the ideas that I've come up with until now for the gamemode. My idea is not only to discuss around this text, seeing if my ideas are viable or not, but also to get more suggestions, ideas and avaliation, maybe with some tests after we come up with an agreement.
[B]WARNING:[/B] Really LOOOOONG text ahead and a lot of spoilers (I chose to not use the spoiler tag because it would get annoying with so many spoilers everywhere in the text, making it worse to read), so be warned, if you are interested in watching the anime and don't want to get spoilers, go back and don't read.
[B]1 The basic concept:[/B]
The basic Idea in this mode is to have BLU and RED fighting, with the BLU team being the titan team and the RED being the human team.
The first idea for the titan team is to have slow moving, resized players, at first only using Heavies using their fists. Their walking speed would or would not be changed to make it more balanced.
The human team would be composed of rocket jumper Soldiers and sticky jumper Demomen, and besides their jumper weapons, they would only be able to use their melee weapons to fight the titans.
[B]2 The gamemode mechanics:[/B]
[B]2.1 The titans:[/B]
They’re not the enemy. I mean, they’re a team of people playing. I would like to say that just so we don’t treat them like that since the beginning. They are the team composed of giant, slow moving machines of destruction that has one simple objective: kill all the humans.
[B]2.1.1 Normal titans:[/B]
The first idea for normal titans would be giant heavies using their fists and that have health regeneration, like the Medic’s. After killing someone from the other team, the titans would have an ability to eat their corpses. I already saw something like this in a VSH server, where it had a chance to spawn the special boss Painis Cupcake (Soldier model), and he had the ability to eat the corpses from the enemy team to regain health (using the Soldier “eating” animation, which was just his stunned animation that he does when hit by the huntsman taunt).
The titan punch should do the normal fists damage, but that could be changed for balance issues, if necessary. I wouldn’t suggest it to one-hit kill, though, because it would be frustrating for the RED team.
The titans’ health and the regeneration would be changed, of course. Maybe make it balanced for how many players are on the server, like The Hidden or Saxton Hale works about their health. The regeneration can’t be ridiculous either, because it would make the “eating to regain health” ability useless.
Since the anime has titans of different heights, I think we should use this mechanic in the mode, making some of them more tall than others, maybe changing their speed, health and/or regeneration to make them all balanced and to avoid the (yay I got a big titan so I’m more difficult to kill) and make it more like (yay I got a big titan I have more health, but I’m too slow…). Again, this could all be tested for balance. The height of the titans would be decided randomly in the beginning of the round.
[B]2.1.2 Abnormal and special titans:[/B]
Just to make it clear: when I say abnormal titans I mean the titans in the anime that looks like the normal titans, but have something different (run carelessly, jump, etc.) and by special titans I mean the ones like the Colossal titan or the titan that breaks the Maria Wall. I don’t know how they are translated in the English fansubs (if they are called rare titans, humans in titan bodies, etc.), so that’s how I’ll call them.
I’ve thought about making these possible, like having a percentage of someone spawning as a different titan, maybe using different classes and/or different weapons to simulate special abilities. Let’s say, if someone spawns like a “fire-breathing titan” they would spawn as Pyro with a flamethrower (with an invisible model, maybe?); or if someone spawn as an abnormal running titan (like the one Mikasa kills in the evacuation at Trost) they spawn as a Scout instead of a Heavy; etc.
I think this would work like the VSH mode, where there is a chance of someone spawning as a different boss, like the Brutal Christian Sniper, the Vagineer or the Painis Cupcake. Their speed, health and regeneration would all be worked to make it balanced, of course.
My idea to announce when an abnormal/special titan spawns is: Have the server say “a mysterious titan appears” on the screen and make it spawn in a random point, or maybe determined spawn points, but separated from the normal titans. The message would not tell which abnormal/special titan spawned or either if it is friendly or not (see [B]2.2.3[/B] for more information).
Other idea I had is to make it so when a normal titan dies, the player has a chance to spawn again, using an abnormal or special titan if it happens. So, everyone would start as a normal “Heavy titan” and then have a percentage to get a second chance to fight the human team. I don’t know if it is possible to make someone have a chance to spawn again once they get killed in arena mode, though, but I’ve seen plugins in VSH where people who die turn into ghosts until the end of the turn.
Also, I don’t know if we should apply the thing of randomly choosing the height of the abnormal/special titans or make it a fix size. I think that abnormal titans would spawn at random heights, since they are like the normal titans in their appearance. I have no opinion in the size of the special titans yet.
[B]2.1.3 Defeating the humans:[/B]
In order to defeat the humans, the titans need to kill them using their fists. It’s a lot easier than rocket/sticky jumping around the enemy, but the titans need to be a lot more careful and watch their backs. Also, they move really slow, so this can turn into a real challenge. Although, we need to make sure to not reduce the titans’ speed too much that it becomes boring to play as them. The idea for the titans that I thought was that if depending on how bigger a titan is, he will have more health and will move slower.
The titans can work alone better than the humans, as far as I’ve thought about it, but I can’t say for sure before testing. But I think that if two titans guard each other’s back, that would be an interesting strategy. Again, we need to make sure nothing is too overpowered.
Although the titans are supposed to defeat a lot of humans all by himself in the anime, in this gamemode they are not supposed to be “bosses” or immortals. They have a high health and regeneration, but they are supposed to be taken down even when there’s only one guy left on the human team.
In a last note, we need to make sure the titans are not ridiculously big that they can’t even punch a guy who is at their feet, but I don’t know if it is possible to happen or if when we resize they can crouch and hit the ground, no matter how much they have been resized.
[B]2.2 The humans:[/B]
The human team is equipped with only a jumper weapon (Rocket Jumper for Soldier and Sticky Jumper for Demoman) and a modified melee weapon, and they must kill the titans.
[B]2.2.1 The armory:[/B]
The human army doesn’t have weapons to attack at distance, but attacking a titan in front of him is plain stupid. The idea is to have a modified Half-Zatoichi (because it is the weapon that is most similar to the swords in the anime, and it can be equipped by both the Soldier and Demoman), but it would do backstabs if you headshot then in the back of the head (since there isn’t a neck hitbox) to one-hit kill the titan (see more in 2.2.2). Basically, it would be a custom weapon that would work like this:
- Uses Half-Zatoichi model;
- Kills instantly if you “headshot” someone in the back. I don’t know if it is possible, but the idea is to mix the head hitbox with the backstab detection;
- On kill: restores you to 100% health (I think it should be a nice reward for killing a titan);
- No Honorbound restriction, because you need to change to your jumper weapon a lot;
And as we know, the 3D gear fuel is not infinite (like the jumper weapons ammo), so the fuel (ammo packs) would be stored in specific locations, and would be just a few.
Even though the humans don’t have tons of health or regeneration, they are different from the titans, that only regains a certain amount of health by eating a corpse, in the fact that the humans get their health restored entirely just after killing the titan, either by hitting them in the weak point or just hitting them a lot of times, without need to stop and eat their corpses. This feature can be explained as the human “being more motivated to kill them all” after defeating a titan.
[B]2.2.2 Defeating the titans:[/B]
The main way to kill a titan, as said in the anime, is to attack it on the back of the neck. In this mode, this would be simulated by hitting a titan in the back of the head, mixing the head hitbox with the backstab detection (if it is possible) with a melee weapon. Doing this will act like a backstab, killing the titan instantly. This is really hard to do, so the balance of this mode is counting on:
- The low speed of the titans;
- The size of their heads (I think they can be resized using the feature from the 2012 halloween spells on the Ghost Fort [koth_lakeside_event]. This would also make the “titans” in the game more similar to the titans in the anime, that have a different anatomy compared to the humans);
- Their turning speed (I don’t know if it can be changed, but I think we can use the attribute on the charge from demoman’s shields to make the turning speed become 0 and then change the turning speed after it. I don’t know if it would the turning speed need to be changed at all, but only tests will tell).
The human team task is not easy, since they need to be like rocket/sticky jumping hybrid of snipers and spies, so I think they should be allowed to kill a titan with a high number of hits that don’t hit the titans’ weak point. Even if it doesn’t sound too similar to the anime, it would make things more balanced to the human team. Of course it is also a risky thing to do, since the titans will be able to punch guys near of them more easily. This will need to be balanced according to:
- The titan’s health;
- The titan’s regeneration;
- The melee damage and swinging speed (I don’t know if it would be necessary. I think it is better to count on balancing the titan’s health and regeneration, but this would always be an option, since the idea is to make a custom weapon for the mode while using the Half-Zatoichi’s model).
The human team would need to count on number, distractions and flanking to get behind the titans ad do the “backstab”, but I wonder if we can balance it so the last guy remaining on the human team wouldn’t just be dead already because he couldn’t even kill one titan all by himself. It may not sound like in the anime, but the mode needs to be balanced for both to make it fun. Like I said, the titans are not the enemy, they are players.
[B]2.2.3 The Secret Experiments:[/B]
Just like the titans have the chance to spawn/respawn as abnormal/special titans, the human team can count on titans on their side; humans that have turned into titans.
The idea is that the human team has a percentage of chance to spawn (or respawn, if it would be possible, like I said in 2.1.2) as a titan, making the “a mysterious titan appears” message appear on the screen, too, and make it spawn in a random point, or maybe determined spawn points, but separated from the human team. The message appear for both teams if a “human titan” or a special/abnormal titan appears, and never says what titan was it and if the titan is from the human or the titan team.
These “human titans” would work like normal titans, or spawn as special titans, too. I don’t know if their punch would need to do more damage, since they will already have more health and health regeneration in comparison to the humans. They just won’t have the ability to eat the enemy titans’ corpses to regain health, like the titans have.
[B]2.3 The game objectives:[/B]
Until now I’ve thought about two modes: One involving an arena match, like most of the custom gamemodes (VSH, Prop Hunt, Dodgeball, The Hidden) use. The other being a attack/defense game mode where the RED (humans) team must hold a point at the gate, symbolizing the time that the city takes to evacuate through the gate, until the time run out while the BLU (titans) team spawn at the other side and try get to the point and cap it, meaning that they killed all the humans evacuating.
[B]2.4 The maps:[/B]
This is a real problem. I know that the intention of this mode isn’t about resizing the titans to be ridiculously huge, since the main way to kill titans will be using explosive jumps. But still, the skybox ceiling of those maps will need to be really high and they need to be really big horizontally, to have enough ground for the titans and the human team to move. I don’t know if it is possible to have maps of that size running in a server without crushing everyone’s fps.
I also think the maps will also need high platforms for people to jump on them and make the task of reaching the titan’s head height easily (not everyone is good at rocketjumping, ya know…). I’m not talking about platforms floating in air, but instead have buildings (like the houses in Trost, where they run on the top of them), or maybe platforms with ramps to them, like the one in the center of sd_doomsday, that is aligned to the top of the rocket.
Until now, I’ve thought about three themes for custom maps:
[I][b]Trost –[/b][/I] This map would react the Battle of Trost. It would have two gates in opposite sides of the map, with the RED team spawning at one of these gates and the BLU team spawning at the other gate, which is broken. There would be lines of houses that the human team would use to run over, along with dozens of other buildings of different sizes (church bell towers, military buildings or HQs, maybe with some big walls).
[I][b]Mann Co. Facility –[/b][/I] This map would be a really big facility with piles of containers (just like the middle point of cp_granary). It would have some suspended platforms or shelves. I saw a map in a VSH server that was kind of like this, with metal platforms in which one would reach by jumping on containers or with the Saxton Hale’s jump, but I can’t remember the name. It even had ventilation ducts that would bring people to the roof.
[I][b]Forest –[/b][/I] This would be a more plain map with almost no buildings, but a lot of trees of different sizes and… That’s all I thought for this map.
Things that would be taken in account are not making maps where there would be places that make the humans would use to hide through all the match, since I think that capture points would break the feeling of the match, but it all need to be discussed. I think that just excluding these places would make it better, but still, humans have a lot of mobility, and that let them be able to just run and explosive jump the entire match (even if there’s almost no ammo packs, rocket jumper and sticky jumper have a lot of ammo).
[B]2.5 The balance:[/B]
The balance of this gamemode relies on both teams needing to be in close-quarters combat all the time in order to kill each other. One team has more mobility while the other is a massive mountain of health and strength. The titans regain health naturally and by eating the ones they kill, acquiring their rewards in the cost of wasting time with the corpse, while the humans have significantly less health and no regeneration, but get their rewards instantly.
I don’t know if I made my point clear on why the titans need to have a lot of health, so I’ll explain again: They need to be able to take a lot of hits without dying, and have a regeneration to simulate what happens in the anime, but the regen can’t be ridiculously fast, so it makes impossible to one guy taking down a titan if he is the last one alive (which makes the task of hitting a titan from behind almost impossible, since there is no one else to distract then). So, the solution for it was making the titans have a giant pool of health and some regen, so they NEED to eat the corpses, and by doing that they become vulnerable for a short period of time.
The balance of the mode depends almost entirely on the titans attributes, including: Speed; health; regeneration; turning speed; size; size of the head; firing speed. For the abnormal/special titans these attributes will need to change, so they are not TOO MUCH overpowered (the intention is that they’ll have special attributes, not just be immortal killing machines that would make the game not fun).
For the humans, the count of ammo packs and health packs (if there’ll be health packs) also counts for balance issues. I think the count of health packs and ammo packs should be like in rare like in prop hunt maps. I don’t know if there is a way to make only the RED team be able to pick up health packs, but if there isn’t, keep in mind that titans will be able to pick then (although I’ve never seen a SH or The Hidden being able to pick up health).
And last, the maps will be a complicated thing, since they need to give chances to less skilled players at rocket/sticky jumping, but can’t make the game too hard for the titans. Should the buildings/props have ramps to them or being only reached by explosive jumps?
[B]3 Suggested features:[/B]
[B]3.1 Different titan models/appearance/looks:[/B]
It’s been suggested that titans would use different looks with other classes. This could need some work, since the hitbox is smaller for every other class when compared to the Heavy. That would give a more “realistic” feeling on the variety of titans, though. Giving the titans different looks using random hair hats or facial hair miscs is plausible for me (titans wearing hats would be funny, too). We can make the speed the same for every titans, independent of how they look, but it will all depend on the balance, if each class will get different health and other attributes to make them work different, but still not so different like the abnormal/special titans.
[B]3.2 Destructible terrain:[/B]
I’ve seen some servers using plugins to do this, but if huge maps would drop everyone’s fps (I don’t know if it really happens. I have no knowledge in map-making and what this affects), this would make things worse. If it’s possible to make without making it too hard for computers to handle, it would be a nice feature to add, giving it more realistic looks and give everyone new kind of strategies. That would also exclude the problem of people hiding until the end of the match. Just imagine a titan crushing a house, walls or a platform! Now imagine your computer needing to show this. For me, it would be a nice feature, but I don’t know if it will be viable.
[B]4 What needs to be discussed:[/B]
[B]4.1 Mixing game features and weapon attributes:[/B]
I know that these features exist in game already, but is it possible to use it with enough freedom to make them what we exactly need? Is it possible to mix thing like a headshot with a backstab detection to make a head backstab? The head resize can be changed to a certain proportion that makes the human task easier, but without making bubble head titans? Is it possible to make custom weapons based on all this? I’ve seen these things being used in different mods, custom gamemodes and plugins, but is it possible to use all of them mixed in this mode? If anything that I suggested is absurd to make and I don’t know, say it, please.
[B]4.2 Map making:[/B]
Is it possible to make these custom maps? Is it necessary? Can we use already in game maps? They sure need to be goddamn huge maps, with high skybox for more mobile and free rocket/sticky jumps. Are they viable? Are they balanced? How to make maps balanced? How to make maps that help less skilled players on rocket/sticky jumps, without making it too overpowered?
[B]4.3 The size of the titans:[/B]
I think I didn’t say the size of the titans in any part of the text, because I have no idea how the gamemode will look when it will come to tests, but it need to start somewhere. The different sizes is almost for sure a nice thing to add, since the anime shows that the titans height vary a lot, but how big they need to be in game, but still not being too big that it makes impossible for the human team to reach their heads? The size of a giant robot from MvM? The size of a MvM boss (those added at the Mecha-Update)? The size of the rocket in sd_doomsday? The size of the middle tower in plr_hightower?
[B]4.3 Everything else:[/B]
Most of what I’ve said in this post is my own opinion, as I’ve said a lot of times, but everything need to be discussed: each topic, each suggestion, each game aspect. Are they ok the way I’ve written them here? Is there anything missing? Any suggestion to what to add or not to add? What to change, and what to not change? Am I right in these aspects or not? Discuss!
[B]5 What needs to be tested:[/B]
Basically, everything. Titans’ health, regeneration, sizes, speed, turning speed, map balance, the gamemode mechanics, etc. The mode needs to be fun to play, and balance is, in my opinion, a crucial aspect to make a mode fun to play on. Tests will be needed when making the mode and the maps, too. I sure want to play in a map that remind me the battle on Trost, but the map can end not working in the game like it worked in the anime. And again, I know almost nothing on map-making, making custom stuff, plugins and gamemodes, but I want this all to happen.
[B]6 Disclaimer:[/B]
Not everything written here came out of my own mind. I’ve taken some ideas from the original post and comments from the [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1js638/idea_attack_on_titan_style_gamemode/] Reddit post [/url] and I’ve come up with some by myself. Even if I have not much knowledge on how technical stuff, like coding, work, I would love to see this happening. I’ll help in what I can and with what I know.
[b] That’s all, I guess. Now, let’s discuss![/b]
a word of advice:
you usually get to the "public discussion part" of an idea when you actually have done some proper work on it, beyond the "concept". you know, you can show images of the layout of a map, or sketches, or models, textures, configs, anything.
because right now you're only going to draw people attention on this project solely because its based on a trendy show. a trend that might end way before you could even get to develop an alpha(and that is, if you even get anything done beyond having "a detailed idea" and enthusiasm.
Does this really warrant a thread of its own, especially considering it's just an idea?
[QUOTE=Metaru;41829945]a word of advice:
you usually get to the "public discussion part" of an idea when you actually have done some proper work on it, beyond the "concept". you know, you can show images of the layout of a map, or sketches, or models, textures, configs, anything.
because right now you're only going to draw people attention on this project solely because its based on a trendy show. a trend that might end way before you could even get to develop an alpha(and that is, if you even get anything done beyond having "a detailed idea" and enthusiasm.[/QUOTE]
Yup, you're right and I'm aware of that. I wish I had proper knowledge to make this beyong just an idea and enthusiasm, but that's all I've got. Trying to draw the attention of people thay may get interested into it and [b]know[/b] how to do it is better than just sitting and wait for that person finding me by itself, in my opinion.
So, you're just an "ideas guy" and can't contribute anything worth while to this little project?
it sounds like a custom MVM wave to me
you're really in the wrong place for SourceMods
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;41830721]So, you're just an "ideas guy" and can't contribute anything worth while to this little project?[/QUOTE]
Hm... Yeah.
a little flaw : resized players have their melee range scale with their size
so basically they can always hit normal players before those can get within their own range
[QUOTE=Hell-met;41830915]a little flaw : resized players have their melee range scale with their size
so basically they can always hit normal players before those can get within their own range[/QUOTE]
I know it, and I don't think it's unfair. I mean, they have to be able to hit their own feet if someone is hidding in there :v:
I don't know if it will be really OP, since it seems to work pretty well with the Heavy Robot Boss in the Bigrock mission.
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