My opinion about engineers - Games

Hi. Please note that I really like TF2, it's a fun game and I play it very frequently. There are a lot of things which I am bothered about with TF2, the main thing is the engineer. And I will explain why. The engineer, renders scouts useless. One of the primary objectives of the scout is to capture the intelligence and capture points, but both of these are always guarded by one or two (sometimes even more) sentries. Sentries for me ruins the gameplay as you need to depend on the other team. The scout cannot usually destroy a sentry on his own, and needs assistance by other classes (the most generic way to kill a sentry nest is heavy+medic). And let's say they do, they destroy a sentry nest next to the intelligence which the scout haven't been able to reach. If they reached this point, they might as well take the intelligence instead of the scout because they have more HP and the intelligence carrier is more likely to being shot at, and they can defend themselves much easier than a scout (even though you really shouldn't defend yourself unless the situation is critical). Valve realized they screwed it up because they added Bonk to the update, but bonk is also flawed because it's useless too. When you pass by a sentry, and maybe even get the intelligence, you still need to go back and then you can't use Bonk anymore. This is why I dislike CTF maps because they promote turtling which ruins the game for me, but I respect those who like having an engineer. When you are a scout, and play on any map, and the enemies have 2 or 3 sentries. You are useless, and basically have to wait for the enemies to come to you, which doesn't always happen. You can either wait for your team to destroy the sentries, or by changing class to heavy or medic and try to assist your team to destroy the sentries. While the game is called TEAM fortress 2 and I am very aware of it, I don't like having to switch class when I only am good playing as a scout and maybe even have fun playing as one. I am sure you will all flood me with dumbs, but in conclusion I don't like engineer except for a few maps that doesn't promote so much turtling as for example Badlands (Argumentative the best map ingame) or gravel pit (though this map is easy to turtle on) Because these maps you can play a bit more individual than the other ones, the worst one is Fastlane followed by 2Fort. I am know that all of you love this game deeply, and that you will flood me with dumbs, but this is just my opinion and if you know any server where you can't play as an engineer, please let me have the IP. Thank you.

Well generally, if you know the opposing team has an engineer or two then you don't play scout. Besides which, if you're only going to play scout and barely touch the other eight classes then you deserve to have some sense shot into you with copius senties. Also what you said about the intel? I disagree, once the sentry is down then the scout can get in and out before the enemy have a chance to regroup and set up their defence again.

Who cares? That's what the game is, you should switch classes if the class you're using isn't effective at that point.

I agree with you, Scout update should have included a more Anti-Enginner based weapon. [editline]08:28PM[/editline] But then again, as you said it is TEAM fortress 2, which means you need a TEAM to get the job done.

The game forces me to work with my team and not use a single class exclusively?! Heavens, no!

Scout's are also harassers so they should be outside raping snipers, medics, and any other idiot outside their base.

You just sound like a shit scout whos crying because he can't blow up a sentry to me. I have seen plenty of scouts do well against them, so stop crying.

You see, the important thing about [i]Team[/i] Fortress 2 is that you work as a team. Ideally a friendly spy would take out the sentries for [i]just long enough[/i] allowing you to dash in and out and grab the intel. You could grab the intel off the desk in 2fort in the time it takes for an engie to destroy a sapper.

Thats what team work is for. Hence the name "TEAM" fortress 2.

The Scout has never been used to capture intelligence (or be a military grade scout) since the TFC days. The classes main purpose is to discover sentry spots, draw out enemies and the like and becuase of this it's a much underrated and tactical class.

Every class has a weakness. In example: Scout < Enginner < Spy.

Any good heavy (with Natasha) with a decent attention span is just as good as a sentry against scouts.

I kill sentries as scoot with the FaN and some proper circlestrafe. Ain't that hard.

Engi is NOT a bad class. Yes it is a turteling class because as of now, pre-engy update, the engineer cannot move his sentries. But let’s face it, scout can not do EVERYTHING. His main objective is to use his skills to reach a point faster then everyone else can. This can cause for some easy rescues of other classes, and capping the point / intel. The engineer is countered by the pyro, the heavy, the soldier, the demoman, and the medic. This makes the engineer a hard class to play, because the soldier and demoman can blow up your sentry while not in the line of view. The heavy can take down a sentry with relentless assault if the engy is away, and the pyro can simply strafe around the sentry to kill it. The scout can take out a level 1 sentry easily, and pistol a level 2 or 3 sentry form a distance. As a scout, you may need to team up with someone else. Bonk is EXTREMLY useful for this job because you can use bonk to distract a sentry, as another scout takes the intel on a ctf map. From my point of view, you are not looking at anything in a creative way, but are just upset because the scout is countered by the engy nest. Its simply a balance issue, and you need to team up. Its Team Fortress 2, no solo play 2. Tl;dr The engy is countered by 4 classes, and a scout can take down a level 1 from close range and a level 2 from long range with the pistol. You cannot do everything on your own in this game, if you think so then you need to play a single player game. Every class is countered, you need to realize this.

[b]Team[/b] Fortress 2, your need to take down the sentry with your team help, don't go solo scout

Bonk isn't useless. You can use it draw fire from an enemy sentry, giving your teammates an opportunity to take it out.

You are implying that you shouldn't need your team in a team-based game [editline]03:44PM[/editline] Remove tf2 uninstall steam delete internet

yeah because scouts should totally be able to complete the round's main objective completely unaided. not game-breaking whatsoever

[QUOTE=xpod1;23209168]delete internet[/QUOTE] Interesting concept you have there.

[QUOTE=Bot02;23208993]Thats what team work is for. Hence the name "TEAM" fortress 2.[/QUOTE] This. Yes, Engineers pose a bigger problem to Scouts than they do just about any other class, but bashing the Engy because a Scout can't effectively deal with him is absurd. It's like how some people hate the Pyro because he's the Spy's main predator, or how people hate the Spy because he trumps the Sniper. There are never perfect match-ups between two different classes, so if you're squaring off against another person of a different class, it's rarely going to be a real even match. Luckily, if I recall correctly, this game is not called "Individual Fortress 2". The game is meant to be a team effort. If you and other Scouts are having trouble, say, capturing the intelligence because there's as sentry gun guarding it, then have a more prepared teammate take care of it. Then you can run in and take the intel. You shouldn't expect to be able to accomplish every single thing alone.

An ubered teammate will deal with the defence. Tf2 is a TEAM-based game after all.

Okay, alright. Hold on a second. Scouts aren't useful just for running intelligence. If that's all you're good at, then spend some time in offline practice mode or play a different class - Scouts are all about threat identification and elimination; the intel-running is good, but you're not doing anyone any good except the other team by running full-bore for the intel every time. While everyone's hurling projectiles at one another, your job is to pop around and shoot people in the face with the most overpowered weapon in the game. Many players will pass over a Scout in favor of trying to take out a Soldier, Demo, Heavy or a Pyro, so you can use their carelessness to your advantage by flanking and eliminating. Also: grabbing control points while everyone else is running to catch up. Secondly, Bonk isn't for YOU, the Scout. Bonk is to distract the sentry so that OTHER players can destroy it without having to do the corner dance. That, or sprinting the last few meters to respawn when you're low on health is the only time you should be using that thing. Thirdly, Scouts have plenty of anti-Engineer measures - as long as an Engie isn't babysitting, you can easily take out even level 3 sentries with your pistol as long as you stay out of range. Maps like Gold Rush have plenty of great spots for Engineers to camp that are still exposed to long-distance harassment and destruction. Start thinking like a Soldier or a Sniper in taking out sentries and less like a Scout. Even plugging away at a sentry with your pistol will keep a camping Engie occupied, leaving him open to all kinds of trouble from other players. Lastly, and most importantly, Engineers are going to camp/turtle/whatever you want to call it because that's what they're designed to do and that's never going to change, so you might as well get used to the idea and stop whining. Without their sentries, they're a Soldier with no rockets, no Equalizer, and less health. Maybe we'll see a little more mobility this update thanks to the rumored 'moving sentry' thing, but it won't be much. Long story short, get over it. If the enemy's got a forest set up, then don't worry about it - Scouts can't do jack against nests besides distract them with Bonk. Tell other players on your team (you're called the Scout for a reason), then go do something else - like keeping the other team waiting to respawn.

it's called [B]TEAM[/B] Fortress two, NOt Go scout, Rush the intel, And hope you survive.

[QUOTE=Kentz;23208756]TEAM fortress 2[/QUOTE] This invalidated your whole rant

TF2 official forums would like it more than we would

Each class has a counter. Spy > Sniper > Pyro > Spy The spy can sneak around the sniper and backstab him however the pyro can easily blow the spy's cover but the pyro is close ranger while the sniper can deal with him at ease at long range. This is a very basic chain however.

[QUOTE=Kentz;23208756]Sentries for me ruins the gameplay as you need to depend on the other team.[/QUOTE] Ever figurd why it's called [i]TEAM[/i] FORTRESS? Maybe because it requires fucking TEAMWORK...

[QUOTE=GameDev;23209063]Every class has a weakness. In example: Scout < Enginner < Spy.[/QUOTE] You mean Engineer > Demo, right?

[QUOTE=LUHG!;23208941]You just sound like a shit scout whos crying because he can't blow up a sentry to me. I have seen plenty of scouts do well against them, so stop crying.[/QUOTE] I have never seen a scout being able to destroy a level 3 sentry when there's an engineer behind it

umad? DEAL WITH IT. If you can't get past sentries while Scout wait for someone to destroy them or become Spy and sap 'em or something, so some Scout more competent can get the intel.