Team Fortress 2 Lore Discusssion: We make sense out of a hat-simulator - Games

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/c7gDObA.png[/IMG] [B]Relevant Links:[/B] - [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/comics.php"]Official TF2 Comics[/URL](Only Mac update and Robotic Bogaloo are [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=4013&p=4"]not Canon[/URL]) - [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/catchup/"]Official resume of the TF2's lore so far: From 1850 to 1972[/URL] - [URL="http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Non_player_characters"]List of most relevant NPCs, plot wise[/URL]. [B]Media:[/B] - [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUhOnX8qt3I&list=PL4EE85236508FFA21"]"Meet the Team" playlist on Youtube[/URL] - [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IIjHh-voFU&feature=share&list=PL7HBWcdum2hFh2jM-P_Pg_HojS17bq_kI"]TF2 Comics narrated by "The Beard"[/URL] - [URL="http://respawn.timdenee.com/"]The Respawn theory[/URL](non oficial nor canon) [B]Resources[/b] - [URL="http://wiki.teamfortress.com/"]Tf2's Official Wiki.[/URL] - [URL="teamfortress.com"]Official Blog[/URL] [B]This thread is meant to further expand and discuss the game's universe, character backgrounds and lore speculation.[/B] - [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1266816"]TF2 Major Update Speculation[/URL] - [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1267058"]TF2 General Chat[/URL] - [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1261728"]TF2 Media Thread[/URL]

Huh. This is actually a good idea. So, to start something off, what's your guys' take on the respawn thing? I personally go by the respawn theory linked in the OP.

-snip-

[QUOTE=Dr. Ocsid;44760553]Huh. This is actually a good idea. So, to start something off, what's your guys' take on the respawn thing? I personally go by the respawn theory linked in the OP.[/QUOTE] Probably just hired people that look similar to the current 9 mercs.

[QUOTE=Cyanidious;44760623]Probably just hired people that look similar to the current 9 mercs.[/QUOTE] If Heavy's statements in Poker Night are to be trusted, they're aware of respawning but shrug it off as a bad dream. Given how the Medic's reanimation in MvM is a thing, there's an in-universe explanation for respawning, albeit not in the conventional manner that we're familiar with. Who knows what underlying machinery there is that could be governing not only the respawn mechanics, but the capture mechanics as well. We take these things for granted because they're in a videogame.

you could take it that way. the 9 mercs we know get hired by each side are just representations(game wise) of each single merc out there filling out their roles. you get to see two engies who arent dell suporting the portable life extending machines used by the brothers in the mvm comic.

I always thought it had something to do with the "Kill me come back stronger" pills Soldier stole from Merasmus. It would make sense, seeing how if you die, you come back with full health and slightly more knowledge of the enemy. How all the mercs got it, and how it works is up for discussion.

I see you got the spelling of "canon" correct, but there's a lot of "oficials" missing F's.

The eternal questions for me remain: 1. Is the intelligence a McGuffin or actual information? 2. What is the end game for the Administrator? 3. Who touched my gun?

[QUOTE=usaokay;44760696]I wonder how the TFC Engineer is going to react when he meets the TF2 Engineer (ie. his son) again.[/QUOTE] I'm not certain the TFC Engineer (in the last comic) and the TF2 Engineer are related. He doesn't really look anything like the picture in the Engineer update of what is assumed to be Dell's father unless he's undergone some radical changes or redesign. [img]http://puu.sh/8F1Wk.jpg[/img] vs [img]http://puu.sh/8F21E.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;44760655]If Heavy's statements in Poker Night are to be trusted, they're aware of respawning but shrug it off as a bad dream. Given how the Medic's reanimation in MvM is a thing, there's an in-universe explanation for respawning, albeit not in the conventional manner that we're familiar with. Who knows what underlying machinery there is that could be governing not only the respawn mechanics, but the capture mechanics as well. We take these things for granted because they're in a videogame.[/QUOTE] That may explain respawning, but how can the same person exist for both teams, and sometimes even multiple times on the same team? By canon, Heavy's RED, Engie's BLU, Pyro is RED, Spy is BLU, and I think Scout is too sometimes, ect.. So if there's a BLU heavy then it's safe to assume he's the clone? And based on Engie and Pyro's relationship, it seems like they most likely go way back, and hold each other in high regards, even though on opposite sides, noting Engie handed over his business to the Pyro.

[QUOTE=Anderan;44760963]I'm not certain the TFC Engineer (in the last comic) and the TF2 Engineer are related. He doesn't really look anything like the picture in the Engineer update of what is assumed to be Dell's father unless he's undergone some radical changes or redesign. [img]http://puu.sh/8F1Wk.jpg[/img] vs [img]http://puu.sh/8F21E.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Keep in mind the TFC Engineer in the latest comic is probably 60-70 years old at the time (Early 1970s). So I think it's natural for him to look that way. As for the robot legs, not sure what caused him to need that. This is what the TFC Engineer looked like in the 1930s, from the Catchup comic: [img]http://i.imgur.com/Zv16F9I.png[/img] I think it clearly resembles the dude in the picture from the Engineer update, he's just a lot older now. Not to mention, the picture from the Engineer update also looks like a paintover of the actual TFC Engineer model itself- note the blocky arms and lack of detail on basically his entire body except his face (his face is what I assume was painted over). Also the UV/texture warping on his overall straps.

[QUOTE=Snowshoe;44761108]Engineer update also looks like a paintover of the actual TFC Engineer model itself- note the blocky arms and lack of detail on basically his entire body except his face (his face is what I assume was painted over). Also the UV/texture warping on his overall straps.[/QUOTE] Never noticed that until you pointed it out. That is a model.

[QUOTE=Snowshoe;44761108]Keep in mind the TFC Engineer in the latest comic is probably 60-70 years old at the time (Early 1970s). So I think it's natural for him to look that way. As for the robot legs, not sure what caused him to need that. This is what the TFC Engineer looked like in the 1930s, from the Catchup comic: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Zv16F9I.png[/IMG] I think it clearly resembles the dude in the picture from the Engineer update, he's just a lot older now. Not to mention, the picture from the Engineer update also looks like a paintover of the actual TFC Engineer model itself- note the blocky arms and lack of detail on basically his entire body except his face (his face is what I assume was painted over). Also the UV/texture warping on his overall straps.[/QUOTE] Also, unless there is something that I've missed, it's never actually stated what the relationship between Dell and the man in the picture is. For all we know it's just a picture of Dell meeting his idol.

[QUOTE=Anderan;44761259]Also, unless there is something that I've missed, it's never actually stated what the relationship between Dell and the man in the picture is. For all we know it's just a picture of Dell meeting his idol.[/QUOTE] Later did he learn of the horrors of an engineer constantly being asked for a dispenser

[QUOTE=Metaru;44760527](Only Mac update and Robotic Bogaloo aren't Canon)[/QUOTE] I know its on the wiki and people say it all the time, including myself, but I've never been able to find a Valve source saying its non-canon, though I probably just didn't look hard enough. Regardless of source though, it definitely makes since that it isn't canon, seeing as it's a promotion for an OS and talked about the moon blowing up.

Oh, I feel the need to comment on the "Respawn theory" in the OP. There is one major flaw early on, that being it's suggestion that the engineer built the respawn room using tech from his grandfather's life machine. The issue is at the start of Loose Cannon, where the engineer gains the plans for the machine, it says Present Day at the top, which I would assume means that it takes place after the comics that precede it, not before them, meaning the mercs had already been fighting (and respawning) when he got the plans.

[QUOTE=VernoGuy;44761338]I know its on the wiki and people say it all the time, including myself, but I've never been able to find a Valve source saying its non-canon, though I probably just didn't look hard enough. Regardless of source though, it definitely makes since that it isn't canon, seeing as it's a promotion for an OS and talked about the moon blowing up.[/QUOTE] The Robotic Boogaloo is confirmed non-canon since it's a community update and not an update made by Valve. I would assume that the Mac comic is non-canon because Saxton Hale blows up the moon in it, and yet our next update is bringing us to the moon.

[QUOTE=Mentlegen;44761729]The Robotic Boogaloo is confirmed non-canon since it's a community update and not an update made by Valve. I would assume that the Mac update is non-canon because Saxton Hale blows up the moon in it, and yet our next update is bringing us to the moon.[/QUOTE] Unless we find out the Australians rebuilt the moon or something.

[QUOTE=Anderan;44761806]Unless we find out the Australians rebuilt the moon or something.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the French rebuilt the moon since it's made out of cheese

[url]http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=4013&p=4[/url] This is also where they confirm the Mac comic is non-canon.

[QUOTE=dongalator;44761847][url]http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=4013&p=4[/url] This is also where they confirm the Mac comic is non-canon.[/QUOTE] I'm glad Makani is the comic person now. I mean, whoever drew those was good too, but ehm...sometimes they drew the characters a little silly.. [t]http://puu.sh/8F9Yr.png[/t] Yes he was pointing awkwardly in this image, but the drawing of all 3 of them a few panels back doesn't really look much like them either.

I wish that the Boogaloo comic, or at least the Engineer from the future, was canon. Also yeah, I know that a lot of people pointes it already, but I guess I'll bring it up anyways: [t]http://puu.sh/8wL7w.png[/t] Soldier is holding an umbrella. My headcanon is that the Civilian died [del]and they lived happily ever after. The end.[/del] and Soldier took it as in honor of his memory. Also, in my opinion, in the comic series TFC Medic died because he was old and stuff. Also, now that TFC is canon, whatever happened to green and yellow team? How the hell did they even exist?

[QUOTE=Omninerd;44763666]My headcanon is that the Civilian died [del]and they lived happily ever after. The end.[/del] and Soldier took it as in honor of his memory.[/QUOTE] I think that the Soldier IS the Civilian or something, but trained to be a merc.

After re-reading Blood Brothers, I had an odd thought. [url]http://www.teamfortress.com/bloodbrothers/#f=20[/url] In this panel and the following, Barnabus is obviously much more upset than Zepheniah about his wife's passing. I haven't seen anyone point this out as anything but an example to show how cold-hearted he is but as a stupid theory, could there have been anything between Barnabus and her? Yeah I know this is convuluted but eh, just wanted to see what the general consensus was on it

[QUOTE=Bwario;44763971]After re-reading Blood Brothers, I had an odd thought. [url]http://www.teamfortress.com/bloodbrothers/#f=20[/url] In this panel and the following, Barnabus is obviously much more upset than Zepheniah about his wife's passing. I haven't seen anyone point this out as anything but an example to show how cold-hearted he is but as a stupid theory, could there have been anything between Barnabus and her? Yeah I know this is convuluted but eh, just wanted to see what the general consensus was on it[/QUOTE] of course Blutarch and Redmond were bastard half-Aussie asshole children. Their natural surliness and shitcuntiness explains why they naturally started to fight with each other I've learned from nature documentaries that Australians have to leave the nest shortly after birth lest their stronger siblings tear them apart

[QUOTE=Mentlegen;44761729]The Robotic Boogaloo is confirmed non-canon since it's a community update and not an update made by Valve. I would assume that the Mac comic is non-canon because Saxton Hale blows up the moon in it, and yet our next update is bringing us to the moon.[/QUOTE] I remember people on the RB project saying the comic was non-canon, so I wasn't curious on the source for that one, just the source for the Mac comic (I forgot to specify the Mac update in my post, though), but it looks like dongalator found it... [QUOTE=dongalator;44761847][url]http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=4013&p=4[/url] This is also where they confirm the Mac comic is non-canon.[/QUOTE]

I found another picture on the Engie update page that likely further proves the dude is the TFC Engie: (They're the old player models, but I assume that has been retconned or something.) [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/CYHt0S6.png[/IMG] Though, there's still not any proof that I know of that says he's TF2 Engie's dad. He could be a father or a role model. I think all we know for sure is that Radigan is TF2 Engie's grandfather.

There is a problem with the respawn theory. We know there are 18 mercenaries ("18 perfect idiots" are mentioned by the Administrator: [url]http://www.teamfortress.com/pyromania/thepoopyjoefiles/04.html[/url]). If there were just 9 of them, it would make the WAR! update a bit pointless - in the comic it specifically mentions the BLU soldier and the RED demoman, which means the actual characters we know of are on a set team. Then there's things like the Demoman's voice line about almost joining the other team. It definitely doesn't seem like there are only 9 of them. Also, how would they know which is the real mercenary at the end of the day?

The game itself is as plotless as it was back in 2007. what the lore has done is add a background to why you're in the badlands and provide a context for everything and everyone, but doesnt really explains how does the ingame mechanics fit into that lore, such as the respawn and/or the multiple mercs per side. thats quite a bit loophole that hasn't been really touched and its most likely that, for the sake of keeping things as simple as posible will not be touched.