The WAR Items are pissing me off... - Games

I apologize to you, because you've probably already heard/said this a million times, but whatever. I was playing TF2 today as Pyro, and I realized how much the Valve developers must hate the Pyro, considering the new weapons given to the Soldier and Demoman classes. I don't have a problem with the Equalizer, the Gunboats, the Scottish Resistance, the Buff Banner, hell, even the Eyelander. But two of the items are pissing me off. That's right. The Chargin' Targe and the Direct Hit. Let's start off with the Chargin' Targe. Now at first, this doesn't seem unreasonable. You get a charging dash, which sort of reminds me of the Bonk! Atomic Punch. It gives you a mini-crit if you attack mid-dash, or a critical hit at the end. Okay, I can dig it. It takes up the sticky launcher, so let's make it worth it. What [I]does[/I] piss me off is the damage buffs. 50% reduction of fire damage? Thanks. Now, the Pyro is less effective against the Demoman than an engineer without buildings. 65% reduction of explosive damage? Even if I manage to reflect the pipe bombs back at them with the compression blast, it would still do about a third of what it should do. Next, the Direct Hit. Okay folks, how can we make the rocket launcher just, well, better? Oh I know! Let's make it faster AND more powerful! Enter the Direct Hit. What does this mean for you, the friendly neighborhood Pyro? Remember that compression blast you were all excited about when it came out? You thought it would make you a formidable opponent against the Soldier? Well think again, my flame-loving friend! You'd need to be at least 20 yards away to honestly consider deflecting these. Now I know what you're thinking.[QUOTE=you]Oh, fenwick! You always complain and never offer suggestions![/quote]...but you're wrong. The direct hit, eh, I can live with it. The real reason for me posting was the Targe. I honestly think that Valve needs to consider nerfing, hell, even removing the targe's fire and explosive damage reduction. 50 and 65 percent are too much. Anyone with me here?

All it takes is practice to counter these guys well.

I'd be pretty okay if the 50% fire resistance was nerfed, but you damn well better not mess with the 65% explosive resistance or I'm gonna be mighty pissed. For now, just use your shotgun against the targe.

Well you're going to have problems if you only use the flamethrower by itself. From what I've seen most pyros don't have trouble taking them down by pushing them into a corner and using the axetinguisher, and if that fails, pull out the shotgun and backpedal, most demoman in my experience suck at aiming pipe bombs and are quite easy to dodge. Also, if you want to deflect a direct hit it's more about predicting when the solider will shoot rather then trying to time it as it come out. For example, I've killed a few snipers by reflecting huntsman arrows at almost pointblank range by predicted when they will fire. then again I don't play pyro that often, but from my point of view the weapons seem alright, they could use some tweaks but I wouldn't really mind if they didn't receive any.

the main problem is the eyelander, the hitboxes are 50% longer than the sword >:( the demo was able to damage me even though the sword never hit me once, and eyelander + chargin' targe is just a fucking pain in the ass only a heavy, engineer (sentry) or scout has a chance against them.

The direct hit is the only thing I'm upset about. It's hard enough to reflect normal rockets back effectively, and they have huge splash and go slow, the direct hit is impossible to reflect or use effectively in a fight, because you have to be aiming perfectly (if you're aiming perfectly you should be playing DH soldier instead) and you have to have perfect timing. The targe is a pain, but you can always just shotgun them.

I too feel the Targe's damage resistance is a bit OP (That's why I always use it :P)

I personally don't get why people think the targe is overpowered. It's replacing one of the demoman's strongest weapons, it has to be just as overpowered as the sticky launches to be worth the change. I like all the new unlocks of this update, the only thing that bugs me is that suiciding with the direct hit is bugged and won't score the person finishing him of any points.

[QUOTE=Simski;19502188]I personally don't get why people think the targe is overpowered. It's replacing one of the demoman's strongest weapons, it has to be just as overpowered as the sticky launches to be worth the change. I like all the new unlocks of this update, the only thing that bugs me is that suiciding with the direct hit is bugged and won't score the person finishing him of any points.[/QUOTE] The Targe is fine, I think they need to just lessen the damage resistance a bit

[QUOTE=Epidemick;19502238]The Targe is fine, I think they need to just lessen the damage resistance a bit[/QUOTE] I don't even think it needs that. What is needed is for the community to man the hell up and rejoice that less demomen are spamming stickies up their asses.

Maybe 100% damage from reflected explosives?

Is it that hard to ignite them then compression blast them back? They're easy to kill if you know how to simply use a combination of the Pyro's weapons. You know, instead of W+M1ing.

Compression blast the charging demoman. /thread

As a person who plays Pyro quite a bit, I can see where you're coming from, but must respectfully disagree with the level of severity you give to these particular items in relation to our flaming friend. Oddly enough, I fear [i]regular[/i] Demos more than targe Demos. Why? For one, the black knight has given up his best area-denial weapon, and in fact wants to engage me in CQC. I find this cute. If he has reached me without a charge, then he cannot crit me in any way whatsoever. If he tries to reach me with a charge, then a well-timed airblast denies him the pre-emptive killing blow he was hoping for. He does not burn well, but he still burns [i]long[/i], and that is all my Axestinguisher needs. He will need to lay several blows upon me for a kill, while I will only need one. Since I can push him back with airblast, most of the control if he wants to melee belongs to me. If he switches to the nade launcher, I will amuse myself with reflections and sidesteps while practicing flares when he has to reload. The rare bottle variant, although humorous, rarely plays out much differently. The Direct hit, while a bit hard to get used to, isn't [i]terrible[/i] with practice against it. Reflecting these rockets is mostly a matter of predicting when he's going to shoot, much like the Huntsman. The main difference, though, is that most Direct Hit users will usually shoot off all four rockets as fast as allowed; taking all of the guesswork out of predicting any rocket besides the first. A bit of this, and a bit of twitch reflexes, will make the Soldier soon realize that bunnyhopping or rocketjumping while facing a Pyro can now be a [i]very[/i] bad idea.

TargeDemos are easy as Pyro, seriously if you can't kill them then hang your boots up as Pyro. As they blindly run into you, light them, then compression blast them away, then axtinguish. As for Direct Hit Soldiers, any class that can insta-kill most of the classes and have one of the fastest weapons in the game and be a strong medic buddy is a bit broken. It does encourage the Soldier to be skillful and aim with his rocket launcher, but once he does he can pretty much destroy anyone. The Direct Hit needs a little nerf but really it's fine. Doesn't work as well agaisnt group of people, due to it's size and loud firing noise it's easy to dodge. The WAR items are fine, Natasha Buff on the other hand...

[QUOTE=fenwick;19502065]I apologize to you, because you've probably already heard/said this a million times, but whatever. I was playing TF2 today as Pyro, and I realized how much the Valve developers must hate the Pyro, considering the new weapons given to the Soldier and Demoman classes. I don't have a problem with the Equalizer, the Gunboats, the Scottish Resistance, the Buff Banner, hell, even the Eyelander. But two of the items are pissing me off. That's right. The Chargin' Targe and the Direct Hit. Let's start off with the Chargin' Targe. Now at first, this doesn't seem unreasonable. You get a charging dash, which sort of reminds me of the Bonk! Atomic Punch. It gives you a mini-crit if you attack mid-dash, or a critical hit at the end. Okay, I can dig it. It takes up the sticky launcher, so let's make it worth it. What [I]does[/I] piss me off is the damage buffs. 50% reduction of fire damage? Thanks. Now, the Pyro is less effective against the Demoman than an engineer without buildings. 65% reduction of explosive damage? Even if I manage to reflect the pipe bombs back at them with the compression blast, it would still do about a third of what it should do. Next, the Direct Hit. Okay folks, how can we make the rocket launcher just, well, better? Oh I know! Let's make it faster AND more powerful! Enter the Direct Hit. What does this mean for you, the friendly neighborhood Pyro? Remember that compression blast you were all excited about when it came out? You thought it would make you a formidable opponent against the Soldier? Well think again, my flame-loving friend! You'd need to be at least 20 yards away to honestly consider deflecting these. Now I know what you're thinking....but you're wrong. The direct hit, eh, I can live with it. The real reason for me posting was the Targe. I honestly think that Valve needs to consider nerfing, hell, even removing the targe's fire and explosive damage reduction. 50 and 65 percent are too much. Anyone with me here?[/QUOTE] Pyros have: -Airblast and shotugn to stop a charging demo in his tracks and then deal significant damage -175hp and 100% speed to sidestep un-reflectable direct hit rockets

[QUOTE=Pennywise;19502397]As a person who plays Pyro quite a bit, I can see where you're coming from, but must respectfully disagree with the level of severity you give to these particular items in relation to our flaming friend. Oddly enough, I fear [i]regular[/i] Demos more than targe Demos. Why? For one, the black knight has given up his best area-denial weapon, and in fact wants to engage me in CQC. I find this cute. If he has reached me without a charge, then he cannot crit me in any way whatsoever. If he tries to reach me with a charge, then a well-timed airblast denies him the pre-emptive killing blow he was hoping for. He does not burn well, but he still burns [i]long[/i], and that is all my Axestinguisher needs. He will need to lay several blows upon me for a kill, while I will only need one. Since I can push him back with airblast, most of the control if he wants to melee belongs to me. If he switches to the nade launcher, I will amuse myself with reflections and sidesteps while practicing flares when he has to reload. The rare bottle variant, although humorous, rarely plays out much differently. The Direct hit, while a bit hard to get used to, isn't [i]terrible[/i] with practice against it. Reflecting these rockets is mostly a matter of predicting when he's going to shoot, much like the Huntsman. The main difference, though, is that most Direct Hit users will usually shoot off all four rockets as fast as allowed; taking all of the guesswork out of predicting any rocket besides the first. A bit of this, and a bit of twitch reflexes, will make the Soldier soon realize that bunnyhopping or rocketjumping while facing a Pyro can now be a [i]very[/i] bad idea.[/QUOTE] Are you actually super-smart or do you just appear that way...?

[QUOTE=cmanatlan;19502459]Are you actually super-smart or do you just appear that way...?[/QUOTE] It's called speaking from experience. The more you play the more of this you learn.

Use the puff and sting to deal with targe demos. (Ignite, airblast, axtinguish) Edit: Give me the bad reading rating, i was too eager to post this and failed to read prior posts.

[QUOTE=Jebus;19502509]It's called speaking from experience. The more you play the more of this you learn.[/QUOTE] I know the concept behind each of those techniques, yet as a pyro the targe and eye demos still ALWAYS get me.

[QUOTE=cmanatlan;19502555]I know the concept behind each of those techniques, yet as a pyro the targe and eye demos still ALWAYS get me.[/QUOTE] you probably don't react fast enough

Well mostly it's that after a few heads, he's fast, got a lot of health, resistant to fire, and got a sword-shaped spear. Seriously that thing gets me from crazy distances. Puffing him away is only a temporary fix, as shotgun doesn't hurt him enough and flames aren't fast enough. Either I puff him until I miss or run out, or a team mate of either team comes and changes the tide.

[quote=_junkie_;19502367]compression blast the charging demoman. /thread[/quote] fuck uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[QUOTE=cmanatlan;19502578]Well mostly it's that after a few heads, he's fast, got a lot of health, resistant to fire, and got a sword-shaped spear. Seriously that thing gets me from crazy distances. Puffing him away is only a temporary fix, as shotgun doesn't hurt him enough and flames aren't fast enough. Either I puff him until I miss or run out, or a team mate of either team comes and changes the tide.[/QUOTE] Compression blasting?

[QUOTE=cmanatlan;19502578]Well mostly it's that after a few heads, he's fast, got a lot of health, resistant to fire, and got a sword-shaped spear. Seriously that thing gets me from crazy distances. Puffing him away is only a temporary fix, as shotgun doesn't hurt him enough and flames aren't fast enough. Either I puff him until I miss or run out, or a team mate of either team comes and changes the tide.[/QUOTE] Light him and challenge him to a melee fight with your axetinguisher. He has to hit you more than once to kill you, but you only have to hit him once.

[QUOTE=stea1th;19502558]you probably don't react fast enough[/QUOTE] Yeah, he's probably just reaaaly bad at the game. :rolleyes:

While a Demoman is charging you, use your compression blast if you can. It will stop the charge and you can pick him off with your shotgun, as mentioned above by others. It's the best way you could kill a charging Demo.

Just because the Pyro's had it easy for a while... (I adapt to any class, but prefer being Medic, as proof of no bias.)

Personally I ain't really a fan of the Direct Hit, since I prefer dealing big splash damage to defeat the enemies, and it increases my chances of defeating them if they're moving fast. Direct Hit's for sharpshooters and stationary targets, the former of which i'm not. Besides, if I wanna destroy a turtle nest, I just aim where the 'big' splash affects the Engie and Dispenser, thus eliminating them before I dry-hump the defenseless Sentry with more carefully placed rockets. In other words, I prefers my faithful old Splasher over the Sniper Rawkits. But Equalizer's p.cool, rewards me for being a dying daredevil. I've yet to be blessed with Mr Bugle yet, but when I am, i'll be credit to team, just like Engie and Medic.

[QUOTE=stea1th;19502609]Compression blasting?[/QUOTE] He said he can puff the demo off him until his miss. To those saying "Just axetinguish him", does anyone remember that Demoman has and will use a grenade launcher just to be a cheating buttfuck? You don't pull out a gun in a self-initiated melee fight! It's something kiddy C:SS players do! [editline]05:46AM[/editline] [QUOTE=ironman17;19502942]Personally I ain't really a fan of the Direct Hit, since I prefer dealing big splash damage to defeat the enemies, and it increases my chances of defeating them if they're moving fast. Direct Hit's for sharpshooters and stationary targets, the former of which i'm not. Besides, if I wanna destroy a turtle nest, I just aim where the 'big' splash affects the Engie and Dispenser, thus eliminating them before I dry-hump the defenseless Sentry with more carefully placed rockets. In other words, I prefers my faithful old Splasher over the Sniper Rawkits. But Equalizer's p.cool, rewards me for being a dying daredevil. I've yet to be blessed with Mr Bugle yet, but when I am, i'll be credit to team, just like Engie and Medic.[/QUOTE] Banner is useful. It's basically a kritzkrieg that is started by hurting rather than healing, can spread to other players, and the user can still use weapons while it's active.