DotA 2 Megathread - Games - Facepunch Forum

[IMG]http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2540/d2header.jpg[/IMG] [B]What is DotA?[/B] DotA 2 takes its name from the Warcraft III mod Defense of the Ancients, a drastic change to that stock real-time strategy title, which pits two teams of five players against each other in highly competitive, 40-minute or longer matches. Unlike most RTSes, DotA has each player controlling a single hero who levels up and stockpiles gold to purchase powerful equipment and consumables. As computer-controlled armies continually spawn and rush the enemy's base, players are responsible for using their powerful heroes to turn the tide of the battle in their favor. DotA quickly gained massive popularity on Blizzard's Battle.net service, with the growing community utilizing user-created channels and the rudimentary custom game browser to connect players. As mods tend to do, it branched into several variations as time passed. Eventually, one rose to the top: [URL="http://www.getdota.com/"]DotA-Allstars[/URL], originally created by Steve "Guinsoo" Feak (now employed with Riot Games designing [URL="http://www.leagueoflegends.com/"]League of Legends[/URL]). Allstars is currently maintained and updated by [URL="http://www.playdota.com/forums/blogs/icefrog/"]IceFrog[/URL] (who declined to give his real name), who was hired by Valve in 2009 and is now working on Dota 2. [IMG]http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/featured/valve/secret/dota2_onesheet_bloodseeker.jpg[/IMG] DotA enjoys such unprecedented popularity for a number of interconnected reasons. The game has a skill curve as long and as wide as Counter-Strike or StarCraft; expert players dominate matches with lesser-skilled individuals solely through manual dexterity and hard-won knowledge. Extensive upgrade paths allow players to combine items into more powerful versions, gaining thousands of hit points or powerful life-stealing attacks. Team play is hugely rewarded; though the map is large enough for all ten players to spread out and fight creeps on their own without anyone engaging anyone else directly, late-game play is almost invariably centered around giant 3v3 or even 5v5 team fights. The mod has benefited from excellent, long-running support in the form of constant updates that add new content or address balance issues. Said balance is good enough that no dominant team composition or strategy has ever taken hold for long. The heroes are varied enough that a match featuring different team rosters can take on an entirely different character from the last. The enormous following generated by DotA's deep gameplay is unprecedented. Today, years after its release, a third-party site hosting an update can get hammered by more than six million downloads in a day. The mod spawned a new subgenre, commonly referred to as "action-RTS," that contains two successful commercial games in League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth (and the unfortunate flop Demigod) as well as DotA-Allstars itself. Valve Corporation, the company beloved for its Half-Life, Counter-Strike, Team Fortress, and Left 4 Dead series as well as its outstanding Steam digital distribution and matchmaking platform, is making its entry into this still-growing genre next year with Dota 2. [IMG]http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/featured/valve/secret/dota2_onesheet_drowranger.jpg[/IMG] [B]What Does Valve Bring?[/B] Valve's approach to Dota 2 is unusual in that the gameplay itself is remaining almost entirely untouched. "Our first reaction is to assume that [design elements are] there for a reason," project lead Erik Johnson explains. "IceFrog is one of the smartest designers we've ever met. He's made so many good decisions over the years in building the product. He virtually never makes a decision that doesn't have some reasoning behind it and a way to pick apart the logic behind it." This approach means that Dota 2 basically is DotA-Allstars with new technology. DotA-Allstars' roster of 100+ heroes is being brought over in its entirety. The single map games take place on is functionally identical to the one that you can download for free today in the Warcraft III mod. Items, skills, and upgrade paths are unchanged. Some hero skills work slightly better due to being freed from the now-ancient Warcraft III engine, but Dota 2 will be instantly familiar to any DotA player. A few things will make significant differences to players making the transition. Dota 2 uses Valve's Source engine, so the game is much prettier. Source itself is getting a few upgrades, including improved global lighting and true cloth simulation. Dota 2's integrated voice chat is a huge step up from having to set up your own Ventrilo server, and the speed of voice communication is very nearly a requirement for a game as team-focused as DotA. AI bots will take over for disconnected players, and will be available to play against in unranked training matches as well. However, don't get your hopes up for a full-fledged single-player game, though. Johnson says, "Our goal with the AI is just that their experience isn't destroyed just because one person couldn't finish the game." The visual style is remarkable for retaining the somewhat cartoony feel that the Warcraft III version of DotA-Allstars is built around, while going in a few different directions. "I think there are functional aspects to the art that are pretty significant to the players," Johnson muses. The environment, particularly in the forests that fill in the map between the three lanes that the NPC armies follow, uses a desaturated color scheme to give the colorful heroes and abilities some visual pop. The sizable art team is putting a lot of work into making the shapes and animations of each hero distinct to the point that players will be able to instantly identify any hero they see and quickly gauge the threat level of any situation. The game will also feature a ton of custom voice work. You'll get amusing lines from heroes as they deny the enemy team last hits on creeps, and champions who have backstory connections will trade quips when nearby. The bulk of innovation in Dota 2, however, is ancillary to the gameplay itself. Valve is upgrading Steamworks (the company's backend technologies for matchmaking and other gameplay and community-related things) to allow them to create in-game rewards for participating in the Dota 2 community. The idea is to have everything a player does in or out of game tie back into their online identity. Like the improvements to Source, the Steamworks upgrades will be available to third-party developers who choose to use Valve's tools when Dota 2 launches in 2011. At a basic level, posting useful feedback or participating in constructive discussions on the forums will contribute to your standing in the community in a visible way. Valve doesn't have the specifics on how this will work nailed down yet. Will you get points that contribute to a visible ranking, like a Gamerscore? Will your posts need to be recommended by other community members to count for anything? What counts as a constructive discussion? These questions are all being actively explored at the moment. Valve assures us that the designers have a slew of awesome ideas for how to implement rewards in a way that’s visible to the rest of the community, but there are no details to announce yet. "When we talk about this identity that exists inside and outside the game, we don't think we're anywhere near it with what exists on Steam right now," Johnson admits. If this was just about getting points for posting comments, though, we wouldn't waste your time by telling you about it. Dota 2 goes much farther than that. Everything from unlocking new skins for your favorite hero to getting a unique title for writing a strategy guide is on the table. Valve has ambitious plans (for which, again, there are no specifics to share) to host everything themselves and provide the best framework for the community to interact with each other. The idea is to reduce the social friction inherent in having to dig around a bunch of different fansites and wikis to find what you're looking for. Ultimately, two things will make Dota 2 stand out: the coaching system and interactive guides. Read on to find out more. [IMG]http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/featured/valve/secret/dota2_onesheet_lina.jpg[/IMG] [B]Riding the Skill Curve[/B] Getting owned sucks. It doesn't matter if you're the victim of a headshot in Counter-Strike, corner trapped in Street Fighter, or swarmed under by Zerglings in StarCraft. Holding the short end of the skill stick in competitive games like these is rough. This problem is compounded in DotA and its clones by two factors. First, matches last around 40 minutes – that's a long time to spend getting your face kicked in. Second, dying not only takes you out of the game while your respawn timer counts down but also directly benefits the other team by giving a big cash bounty to your killer. At intermediate and higher levels of play, having a poor player on your team who dies frequently is worse than fighting with a man down, as the opposite team gets gobs of gold for picking off the newbie. This has fostered a legendarily newbie-hostile attitude within large swaths of the DotA community. As fun and rewarding as the game is when you're in a match of appropriate skill level – and it can be one of the very best experiences in gaming, without exaggeration – finding those matches has always been a nightmare. It doesn't help that the game is so intense that Valve had to institute a "no talking about the match for an hour afterwards" rule for its internal playtests. The recent commercial titles that more or less cloned DotA have ameliorated this to some extent, but it is still often a huge problem. Valve believes that the solution to the huge barrier to entry is threefold. The first, obvious solution is to have excellent skill-based matchmaking for both individuals and teams. Valve believes that the work going into Steamworks for Dota 2's release meets that requirement. Second, interactive guides will allow players to do more than just read a guide for their favorite hero that has been deemed helpful by the community at large. Valve plans to allow guide-makers to tie their work back into the game by doing things like highlighting suggested item purchases or displaying useful information during a match. Finally, a coaching system is being deeply integrated into the game. By logging in as a coach, veteran players can do their part to help out newer folks. Valve hasn't entirely decided on the specifics of how newbies and coaches will be matched up, but once they're together a few things happen. The coach sees the pupil's screen, and gets private voice and chat channels to communicate with them. The coach probably won't be able to take control of anything directly (once again, the details are currently under discussion), but information is power in Dota 2 and having a mentor whispering in your ear can make all the difference in the world. [IMG]http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/featured/valve/secret/dota2_onesheet_morphling.jpg[/IMG] Of course, the pupil will be able to rate the coach's helpfulness. Being a well-regarded coach will have explicit in-game rewards, just like writing useful guides, posting constructive feedback, or engaging in interesting strategy discussions. If the overwhelming response to Battle.net achievements is any indication, vanity rewards like these will be extremely effective in channeling the community's energies toward positive contributions. Valve founder and boss Gabe Newell thinks that ongoing service and value creation over a game's lifespan is the new reality of game development. "IceFrog was one of the smartest people we've ever met about doing that, and he was doing it with both hands tied behind his back, so to speak," Newell says. The company plans on approaching Dota 2 with the same dedication that won it the fanatical devotion of the Team Fortress 2 community, pushing out dozens of updates that do everything from adding new hats to fixing balance issues to introducing entire new match types for free. "I think the interesting thing is us adding a second layer where the community is a service to each other. That's the real shift that we're trying to build here. Valve is going to keep building software around Dota and around the community and around Steamworks for Dota, but we're also going to build this system where the community can bring service to each other and be recognized for it," Johnson proclaims. With a solid backbone of community-enabling systems and Valve's legendary support and technology behind it, Dota 2 has a chance to turn one of the most popular mods of all time into a full game on PC and Mac that compares favorably to any eight-figure-budget console blockbuster. [quote=Valve] [B]Q: Is there reconnect support for DotA 2?[/B] [I](by Vanes-UT)[/I] A: This was actually one of the very first things we added early on, before the game was stable, in order to help with testing. You’ll also be able to have a friend of similar skill level substitute for you in case you have to leave. Players that want to improve their reputation in the game and community will also be able to help out by joining ongoing games that are missing players. [B]Q: Can I still play with my friends from America even though I am European?[/B] [I](by Adam Mosley)[/I] A: Yes, a lot of people have friends in different regions and we want to allow them to easily interact. One of the things that makes DotA special is how big the community is, so we will do our best to make it easy to connect and communicate with one another. [B]Q: How are you going to handle delay and lag between players?[/B] [I](by Alex)[/I] A: This is something we are putting a lot of time and resources into. Minimizing delay to servers, along with optimizing networking code, is very important to being able to enjoy DotA on both a casual and competitive level. We’re expanding the Steam infrastructure around the world so the matchmaking service for DotA 2 is able to provide the lowest possible ping wherever you are playing. There will also be some uniquely located servers that are optimized regionally for handling longer distance matches. [B]Q: What kind of hardware requirements will the game have?[/B] [I](by S.Hong)[/I] A: We don’t have an official minimum spec just yet. The goal is to make sure that people with older computers and the PCs at LAN centers will be able to support the game, while also allowing for newer computers to scale well. [B]Q: I heard there was going to be an AI feature for when a player leaves. Is there going to be an option to take direct control of the hero?[/B] [I](by Stephen)[/I] A: The AI features will be optional to the players in the game. You can have teammates use it, send it to the base, or give it AI modes and behaviors to follow. [B]Q: Will there be anything like the AI maps in DotA or a “training mode” with difficulty levels?[/B] [I](by L.Pham)[/I] A: Yes there will be bot support if you just want to play by yourself, or you can create a party of friends and fill the rest of the slots with bots. There are a variety of different settings you can use in order to configure the bots, ranging from selectable difficulty levels to specific behaviors that you want to practice against. For example, if you want to practice your lane control, you could configure the bots to be stronger at denying, last hitting, and harassing. We’ll also have some specially crafted challenge scenarios, similar to things like Pudge Wars, which I’ll elaborate on in the future. [B]Q: Will the replay system allow me to move freely backwards and forwards in time rather than having to watch a whole replay?[/B] [I](by Luciando)[/I] A: You’ll be able to jump around to any point in the replay, add bookmarks for easy referencing, view detailed stats and graphs while the game is going, and watch through a specific player’s view (with regards to their camera movement). You’ll also be able to watch replays with friends if you want to review a game or learn from your mistakes. To aid videomakers, the replay system will have flexible camera angle and speed controls. There will also be a bunch of commentating and editing features you can add to your replays. [B]Q: Don’t you think you should make a lot of changes to the gameplay?[/B] [I](by Robert)[/I] A: Significant changes would not necessarily make it a better game. There are countless features we are building around the game that will make the experience a much better one. The gameplay itself, though, has always evolved step by step, and it will continue with that methodology. We consider this a long term project, in the same way DotA has always been. We want to provide a quality experience and not just change for the sake of change. You’ll naturally see additions and improvements to the game as time passes, but it would be a natural progression aimed at improving the game for the players and not for other arbitrary reasons. Valve and I strongly believe that the player focused development process the game has gone through is what will allow us to continue making the best decisions with regards to where we spend our development time. [B]Q: Can you spectate an already ongoing DotA 2 game?[/B] [I](by Valo)[/I] A: A lot of the game will be built around spectating and shoutcasting support. You will be able to join most ongoing games (unless the players marked it as private) and just watch them. You can join a game your friend is in, see what your favorite clan is doing, or simply pick a skill level and a hero you like and it will find you one to watch. We also have a system in place that automatically distributes the load to multiple servers so that the game itself won’t be affected by users joining to spectate. Our distribution network will allow us to support any number of users that want to watch, by dynamically assigning more servers to the task. There will also be special tags and search options to help you find live or old shoutcasted games. Shoutcasters will be able to operate as directors, so anyone watching will have his camera looking at the same things the shoutcaster is viewing. There is also an optional anti-cheat mechanism built in so that the game you are spectating can be time delayed by any amount of time to reduce potential abuse. [B]Q: Will you keep loyal to casting times like Torrent and will it still be possible to do the advanced tricks, like animation canceling, fog of war tricks we’ve learned, etc?[/B] [I](by Lycan)[/I] A: Yes, those mechanics are implemented. They are a very integral part of the game and it wouldn’t feel the same without them. [B]Q: How will we manage replay files?[/B] [I](by Nikos)[/I] A: They will be automatically saved with your identity online utilizing the Steam Cloud storage system, so you don’t have to worry about losing them. You’ll be able to use the replay browser tools to search, sort, tag, rank, and favorite them. [B]Q: Are you going to work on DotA after DotA 2 is released?[/B] [I](by Jack Lee)[/I] A: I plan to keep DotA updated for as long as the community wants. That being said though, I think that DotA 2 represents the long term future for the game. [B]Q: How will development change with regards to your role, current beta testers, community feedback, etc?[/B] [I](by Basel)[/I] A: All that stuff will remain the same, except that now I also get to work with the developers at Valve. All of our current playtesters and even contributors like Kunkka are helping. One of the most important things for me has always been getting input from the community. There will be a lot of opportunities, throughout the next year, to give your feedback on all the things we are working on, ranging from features to visuals. [B]Q: Are the upgraded graphics going to be distracting? New graphics are great, but when there’s too much, you can’t see what’s going on anymore.[/B] [I](by Lycan)[/I] A: Gameplay is definitely the most important aspect, everyone on the team understands this concern. The number one priority is making sure players can quickly and easily tell what’s happening on the screen at all times. Fine tuning the right visual balance with each ability, effect, hero, etc., will be an ongoing process as the game is playtested and we get your feedback. A clean and understandable visual representation of the action is important to everyone from experienced players, spectators, to new players. [B]Q: Will I be able to help test DotA 2?[/B] [I](by Sing Liu)[/I] A: There will certainly be an opportunity to get involved with beta testing DotA 2 and help us with your feedback. We’ll release more information about how to sign up in the future. [B]Q: Are you going to do anything to make it easier for new players to get into the game and feel welcome?[/B] [I](by Arvin)[/I] A: Some of what makes it hard, in current DotA, stems from the lack of services around the game that can help foster a better relationship between players and that it’s hard for players to be matched up with equally skilled allies and opponents. Things like tutorials, matchmaking, AI bots, identity, coaching, and community contribution will go a long way to making it easier for new players to fit in. [B]Q: What hotkey setup will exist in DotA 2?[/B] [I](by Stany Kaff)[/I] A: We have a few default templates that cover the most popular configurations, but you’ll also be able to fully customize them to your liking. You can customize it on a global level or on a per hero basis if you choose. The hotkey configuration will include everything, not just heroes and items, but also how you navigate in the game, control the camera, autocast, set control groups, etc. Your settings are saved to your identity online, so if you go to a LAN center you will not have to reconfigure your keys. [/quote]

thats some sexy art

I love it how Valve transforms good mods into awesome games.

I can't wait for this.

I'm not specifically excited to play it, I'm just excited to see what valve makes of it.

I never played DotA before, but since it's Valve, I will give it a try.

i never played DOTA but i heard about it alot from my friends. Definitely checking this out

I expected more from OP than just a copy pasta.

[QUOTE=FHamster;25802601]I expected more from OP than just a copy pasta.[/QUOTE] It's from several places. I'm gonna update this as more info gets out to keep people from having to search around the internet for information.

The biggest question is, will it be free?

I liked DOTA in WC3, so I will like this one. And it's by Valve which is a bonus.

[QUOTE=Rong;25803120]The biggest question is, will it be free?[/QUOTE] Ask the Scout.

I am poor and uneducated, but DotA sort of sounds like a dumbed down RTS, what with the no army thing. But I doubt it would get that popular if it was... so what is it? (No, Action-RTS doesn't count as description)

[QUOTE=Midnight;25804033]I am poor and uneducated, but DotA sort of sounds like a dumbed down RTS, what with the no army thing. But I doubt it would get that popular if it was... so what is it? (No, Action-RTS doesn't count as description)[/QUOTE] You join a server, choose a hero, level the hero whilst killing the enemy and when the enemy base is destroyed you win. You control your hero like if it was a RTS.

It's like controlling a Warcraft 3 hero, whilst AI armies with identical unit paths and structures attack each other, you and your team of heroes change the balance by assisting them, whilst also fighting an enemy team.

Can't wait until they release in-game screen shots. I really wanna know how the game looks.

I wonder if it'll feature more than 1 map this time.

I wonder how the game will play out on the Source Engine. The engine isn't really known for "big detailed maps" Although with the source SDK, I won't be bugged if there aren't a lot of maps.

That one chick looks pretty hot.

[QUOTE=minilandstan;25819873] The engine isn't really known for "big detailed maps" [/QUOTE] Nay, DotA doesn't have a big map. Just 3 lanes and loads of trees!

Looking forward to this, hoping the community doesn't go ape-shit with all the new players. The community helping features might help with that, thats the only problem with DoTA and HoN at the moment.

I don't think the game play will be anything like a RTS game play.

Gameplay will be exactly like DotA.

[QUOTE=minilandstan;25819873]I wonder how the game will play out on the Source Engine. The engine isn't really known for "big detailed maps" Although with the source SDK, I won't be bugged if there aren't a lot of maps.[/QUOTE] I think that either the map limits will be blown up or that the maps will just be downscaled like that one RTS mod.

Or, everything will be scaled down, like in the gamemode for GMod called Devinity.

I never knew valve to produce such fine art

[QUOTE=minilandstan;25819873]Although with the source SDK, I won't be bugged if there aren't a lot of maps.[/QUOTE] Good point.

Guess they'll be working extra hard on the engine.

um alien swarm had big maps and it ran fine.

[QUOTE=minilandstan;25819873]I wonder how the game will play out on the Source Engine. The engine isn't really known for "big detailed maps" Although with the source SDK, I won't be bugged if there aren't a lot of maps.[/QUOTE]Topdown perspective doesn't have to draw as far as the eye can see.