I recently had this discussion with a friend of mine (we're both gamers).
I thought games were art, because they're a form of artistic expression, made to show the developer's thoughts or tackle a statement (or make money).
He thought they weren't, because art is by definition made to be art and nothing more.
Facepunch, your thoughts?
crysis 2 is an elegant piece of art. i don't play it though
Really depends on opinion of what art is, if art is an expression of creativity created into an object, then yes, video games are art. If art is restricted to a certain type of creative expression, and those not including video games, then no.
Braid
[QUOTE=lifehole;28724794]If art is restricted to a certain type of creative expression[/QUOTE]
contradiction
art can be anything
[editline]21st March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=booster;28724814]Braid[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kWo8N4QNXM[/media]
mm
No, they are entertainment.
As video games are a compilation of artistic elements (literature/story, visual art, and music), I can't see how they can't be considered art.
[QUOTE=Kalibos;28724840]
art can be anything
[/QUOTE]
Maybe, but maybe some people think art is restricted to certain types of objects,like painting building etc.
[QUOTE=kevlar jens;28724852]No, they are entertainment.[/QUOTE]
So is music.
[QUOTE=BrainDeath;28724865]So is music.[/QUOTE]
and movies..
Yes games are art, but i disagree with the OP, ALL games should be considered art. Thats like saying all the bad paintings or songs made aren't art too. Yes, even the bad games are art, abit they're just shit compared to others.
[editline]21st March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=kevlar jens;28724852]No, they are entertainment.[/QUOTE]
SO are movies, music paintings and the man walking by on the footpath by my bedroom window, your point is invalid man
[QUOTE=dude2193;28724965]Yes games are art, but i disagree with the OP, ALL games should be considered art. Thats like saying all the bad paintings or songs made aren't art too. Yes, even the bad games are art, abit they're just shit compared to others.[/QUOTE]
Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing :colbert:
[QUOTE=dude2193;28724965]Yes games are art, but i disagree with the OP, ALL games should be considered art. Thats like saying all the bad paintings or songs made aren't art too. Yes, even the bad games are art, abit they're just shit compared to others.[/QUOTE]
Then vote "Yes", instead of "Yes but not all".
Also, agreed.
Yes, they just haven't developed their full potential yet
Videogames have the capacity to be art, but it hasn't really matured as a medium yet. What is art and what isn't is sort of hard to define though. To me, art is a creative work capable of making you rethink or question some of the things you took for granted or the opinions you held. Art is subjective, if you experience videogames as an artform, then that's art to you.
No shit they're art. I can hardly believe this a question anymore, or ever was. Whether or not they're high art is a different question but (and this is obviously opinion) there are games that can compete with the greatest movies.
I mean it's kind of stupid to think otherwise. The format is a fucking empathy farm, full of philosophical possibilities and other pretentious bullshit. Some indie games are basically just mindbending short stories. On the other hand there's story writing like GTA4's, writing that comes from people who would obviously be capable of writing a great gritty action movie, and it's coupled with fantastic gameplay.
Clearly a lot of games are total bullshit just like most movies are total bullshit, but the great movies never get grouped in with the Chipmunks or Yogi Bear or whatever shit trend the cash grabs are currently following.
You don't even have to look for Shadow of the Collossus or whatever to find an artistically pleasing game, necessarily. Wind Waker was fantastic. The gameplay itself suffered a bit from the long, long sails across the ocean, and the frustratingly open ended triforce search across the ENTIRE map near the end, but stuff like this kind of made the game. It made it feel so vast and it was so much fun sailing to little corners of the map you never really have to visit just to explore the curious little islands there (and there were so so many interesting secrets and games on them). The immersion and sense of exploration is still almost totally unmatched. Even exploring in Oblivion or whatever couldn't quite match that, in my experience.
Plus Ganondorf's monologue about the wind in Hyrule at the end was surprisingly well written - really subtle and touching. Surprising for a Zelda game - Twilight Princess was a step back in terms of storytelling, honestly. No coming across a preserved undersea Hyrule, no twists of real consequence - although I guess you could say Wind Waker plays off of nostalgia a whole bunch.
Oh and I finished Okami recently. Don't even get me started, girl - it's fantastic art for the visual design alone, but basically every aspect of the game is polished and pleasing.
Of course they are an art, people who think otherwise are about as dense as people who said movies aren't an art 100 years ago
I think they are, I mean if you actually look at the effort and time put into making the graphics (Considering the art aspect is the graphics) (Models, High Poly, Low Poly, Textures, Normals, Specular, detail, glow maps) it does show artistic expression. Regardless of whether the game has Next gen graphics to Minecraft 16-bit style graphics I love all styles,
Bad graphics for me is something not being able to represent what it is trying to represent, or a bad decision for that representing what it is trying to represent, e.g. a scribble for a machine gun, although this may be a "stylized" choice I generally would consider it terrible graphics. Also bad graphics include blurred textures stretched textures etc. it doesn't hurt to spend a little bit of time to just put in the extra effort to make it that much more polished.
The only people who say they're not art are uncultured neanderthals who consider art to be a (cave) painting on a wall.
[QUOTE=lifehole;28724858]Maybe, but maybe some people think art is restricted to certain types of objects,like painting building etc.[/QUOTE]
those people are wrong and that's not a matter of opinion
No, but eventually the medium as a whole can be regarded as an art form. The industry needs to evolve out of movies with interactivity to true interactive story telling.
[editline]21st March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Banned?;28724864][img_thumb]http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/842982636_LwDfj-L.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
I think the answer to the statement: if 500 artists create art for 5 years won't the end result not be art?
Is no, it will be a horrible mess of different art forms with no structure. I don't think games have yet to achieve the structure that movies and music has. With movies the story telling works together with what you see and what you hear, I have yet to see a game were the story telling works together with what you see, hear and do.
art is art, art can be complete shite and art can be amazing but who really gives a fuck
people are way too quick to use art as a pretentious badge of honour, even though as much as you don't like it a man shitting on a canvas is art as well.
the issue you people should be concerned about is not "are video games art", the issue is "are video games close to the artistic expression that films are"
in that case, ABSOLUTELY NOT but the format is young so give it a while
games that do something original without cliches are so rare and are usually forgotten, while incredible movies like a clockwork orange or taxi driver are still fondly remembered regardless of age and usually you'd be tar and feathered by any movie fan for even suggesting you didn't see the complete thing
[editline]21st March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Banned?;28724864][img_thumb]http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/842982636_LwDfj-L.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
what a bloody pretentious cartoon. i feel like barely anyone understood what roger ebert was saying and he was making legitimate points
you'll kill any progression if you don't allow criticism to exist
[QUOTE=kirederf7;28724980]Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing :colbert:[/QUOTE]
That's what we call 'shit art'.
[QUOTE=Dog;28725407]That's what we call 'shit art'.[/QUOTE]
I find it to be a beautiful piece of art!
it's a bunch of fucking animations tied to a controller
movies are a bunch of pictures played in a sequence
music is a bunch of recorded vibrations
Why the hell does it matter what category you put it under, art or no?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28725454]it's a bunch of fucking animations tied to a controller
movies are a bunch of pictures played in a sequence
music is a bunch of recorded vibrations
Why the hell does it matter what category you put it under, art or no?[/QUOTE]
cuz when i waste my time on meaningless shit i usually would prefer it to be pretty good meaningless shit
and if it's life-changing like music or movies then even the better
but even after playing all the games i have i can't say i was ever really changed by them, but to be fair video game developers never really strive for that anyway
Games can be as much art as any other medium. They can also be as much mindless fun as any other medium.
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;28725581]Games can be as much art as any other medium. They can also be as much mindless fun as any other medium.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this.
Games just like any other medium have the potential to be art, the problem is that most people doesn't take games seriously because of "It's just a game" mindset. Which in turn makes developers spew more and more shit, without any artistic value, on the market.
[editline]21st March 2011[/editline]
Also, if we want games to be taken seriously, we'll have to massacre EA marketing department.
I'm still furious about that fucking Dead Space commercial.
games are art except where they're blatant clones of other games ie homefront = every bad first person shooter ever
and that exception has another exception for games like duty calls
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