[URL]http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/08/17/riot-games-dev-counter-files-dota-trademark/[/URL]
[QUOTE]No developer has a bigger stake in what “DotA” (the highly popular Warcraft III mod, Defense of the Ancients) means today than Riot Games, the budding developer of the free-to-play DotA-esque arena game League of Legends. League of Legends has quietly developed into an enormous community, and it’s a game all PC gamers should at least try. So when the suprising news came out last week that Valve had submitted an application to trademark “DotA”, we sat down with two of the top dogs at Riot Games who were major forces in the DotA community before they signed up at Riot–Steve “Guinsoo” Feak and Steve “Pendragon” Mescon. If anyone has a right to claim the name “DotA”, it seems like it would be these guys, so we asked them what they thought of the recent announcement and what they plan to do about it.
Before teaming up with Riot, Guinsoo and Pendragon made a name for themselves by creating and operating DotA Allstars, by far the most popular version of DotA. Guinsoo, now Game Designer for League of Legends, designed and created the DotA Allstars map, while Pendragon, now Director of Community Relations for LoL, created the website to foster and grow the community around the map.
[B]PC Gamer:[/B] [B]What was your initial reaction when you heard that Valve was registering a trademark for “DotA”?[/B]
[B]Steve “Pendragon” Mescon:[/B] As someone who worked with DotA for years, seeing developers of Valve’s caliber take an interest in this genre is always exciting. Hundreds of people have worked on DotA in its many forms over the years, and millions have played the game, and certainly this type of attention demonstrates how far DotA has come.
However, the idea that one single company is taking control of the name of something that hundreds of people have contributed to is surprising. I believe DotA should always remain a community-owned product that modders, independent developers and game fans can continue to modify and play as often as they’d like. Guinsoo and I had hoped that the DotA name would live on in perpetuity as a community project that is both free to play and free to modify and expand.
[B]PCG: Did you think that trademarking the name was even possible? Guinsoo, as the creator of DotA Allstars, you have as much of a right to claim the “DotA” name as anyone else in the world. Why hadn’t you or Riot tried to trademark it before?[/B]
[B]Steve “Guinsoo” Feak:[/B] I was aware that trademarking the name was possible, but originally I had no intention of filing for any DotA-related trademarks because DotA is owned by the community. DotA is a mod that many of people have contributed to, not a single person or development team like most typical games. As soon as you step away and create a new game, like we at Riot Games did with League of Legends, it’s no longer DotA. After all, DotA wouldn’t be where it is today without the many contributions the community has made over the years. Neither Pendragon, Riot Games nor I have any desire to dictate the future of DotA.
[B]PCG: Who has the rights to own properties like “DotA” that started out as a single map, but have evolved into so much more? Do you have insight into the legal side of things?[/B]
[B]Pendragon:[/B] I don’t know the answer to that question, but certainly the original authors, such as Eul and Guinsoo, and the many contributing authors and companies such as Blizzard, have contributed significantly to the creation of DotA. The situation is not as simple as a single person having total ownership over the name. But now we are exploring options to protect the DotA name. We [Dota-Allstars, LL--the company run by Pendragon] have filed for the “Defense of the Ancients” trademark to protect the work that dozens of authors have invested to create the game and on behalf of the millions of DotA players all over the world. If we were to obtain the trademark, we would keep the game and the DotA name freely available to the mod community. That way the game can continue to be worked on and enjoyed by the independent community. We want to ensure that the DotA name remains in the hands of the community and that it is free for all to use.
[B]We have filed for the “Defense of the Ancients” trademark to protect the work that dozens of authors have done to create the game and on behalf of the millions of DotA players all over the world.[/B]
[B]PCG[/B][B]: Do you feel that Valve’s application to trademark DotA affects League of Legends in any way? It is an entirely separate game, but it’s legacy is obviously deeply rooted in DotA.[/B]
[B]Pendragon:[/B] The trademark itself doesn’t affect League of Legends because it’s a standalone game. But as we still are part of the greater DotA community, we hope that the DotA name will remain under the control of the community for the community to continue to play and update.
[B]PCG: Valve has a history of snatching up mod teams and having them create their mods as stand-alone Source games under Valve. A lot of modders see this as a beacon of hope—that if they work hard they can get full-time jobs. Do you not feel the same way?[/B]
[B]Pendragon: [/B]We think Valve is a great company that has put out some amazing products–many based on mods. They have done a lot to grow and support the mod community and we are excited to see what they bring to the genre. As far as potentially offering positions for modders and DIY developers, we totally support that movement. After all, Guinsoo was originally a modder that helped create DotA Allstars and he’s now one of the lead developers for League of Legends.
[B]PCG:[/B] [B]Is the DotA situation different from the CS or the Alien Swarm situations?[/B]
[B]Guinsoo:[/B] I don’t know the details of those situations, but DotA was created by several different community teams over a long period of time. There were hundreds of people involved in creating and maintaining the product, shaping it into the game you see today.
[B]PCG:[/B][B] Is it more devious than people might think on the surface?[/B]
[B]Pendragon:[/B] We give Valve the benefit of the doubt because of their history, but our concern is that by a single organization taking ownership of the name, the community at large would no longer be able to contribute to DotA like they have for years.
[B]PCG: Do you think Valve has relied too much on absorbing other people’s ideas and refining them in recent years, rather than internally developing games from scratch?[/B]
[B]Pendragon:[/B] I am excited that Valve has taken an interest in the genre and would like to see the innovations they bring to the table. We see this genre of gaming growing and expanding as more gamers discover it. Larger developers like Valve adding their talents, ideas and growing the audience is going to accelerate the popularity of this genre, which is going to be great recognition for all the efforts that the DotA community put into creating this type of game.
[B]PCG: What’s the best outcome for the average gamer at this point?[/B]
[B]Pendragon:[/B] I think the best-case scenario would be that nobody owns the trademark to the DotA name. But if Valve were to ultimately gain the rights, I hope that they would abandon the trademark and release it to the community to allow them to continue to modify, play and experience DotA for free. That’s what DotA is all about.
[/QUOTE]
Basically, League of Legends dev gets mad that valve published the dota trademark and tries to counter-file the dota trademark so valve can't touch it.
I don't see how is that "getting mad", they just want it to keep it an open trademark :buddy:
Valve will make a better version then them.
Poor guys don't know how good is Valve
Seems to me that the basic point of the piece was that they feel disappointed that they didn't make DoTA a trademark while they could, be it for community benefit or not.
Certainly applying for a trademark for a certain name, in this case DoTA, means you get all rights to who gets to use it, correct? If such is the case, I am sure VALVe will let those who work on it keep the name, and VALVe will simply release their game named DoTA:xxxx instead. Knowing them this sounds like the most probable course of action being taken, certainly they should have known how widespread the game is by now, and I doubt they'll want to ruin the name it holds. :sax:
Valve should probably come up with a new name anyway.
What are they whining about? One of them just set up a website and did some community stuff, one of them [I]helped[/I] to designed "Dota Allstars" which is simply a variation of dota, not the real official thing. Icefrog actually created dota.
[editline]10:33PM[/editline]
[I]PCG: Did you think that trademarking the name was even possible? Guinsoo, as the creator of DotA Allstars, [U]you have as much of a right to claim the “DotA” name as anyone else in the world.[/U] Why hadn’t you or Riot tried to trademark it before?[/I]
Seriously, DotA was the original, DotA Allstars was a modification of DotA.
And so the plot thickens.
[IMG]http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx228/dymediggler/Animated/gonbgud.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Leaf Runner;24200029]What are they whining about? One of them just set up a website and did some community stuff, one of them [I]helped[/I] to designed "Dota Allstars" which is simply a variation of dota, not the real official thing. Icefrog actually created dota.[/QUOTE]
they're not whining about anything, they're trying to get it so that the concept of dota stays free.
p.s. icefrog didn't create dota, he picked it up when guinsoo dropped the project after version 6.01.
-snip-
so the people trying to show valve whats up, didn't even originally make the game?
[QUOTE=cani;24201496]-snip-
so the people trying to show valve whats up, didn't even originally make the game?[/QUOTE]
guinsoo made dota allstars which was an updated version of the original dota made from eul because eul didn't bother making an updated version for frozen throne, so yes, he did originally make the game.
[QUOTE=cani;24201496]-snip-
so the people trying to show valve whats up, didn't even originally make the game?[/QUOTE]
Eul made the original DotA game-mode for WC3. He never updated it after Frozen Throne came out, so a bunch of people made spin-offs.
Guinsoo made the most popular one: DotA Allstars. He left after version 6.01, and gave the game to Icefrog, who continued to develop it (until Valve hired him). Guinsoo went on to co-found Riot Games, where they released League of Legends.
If anyone has the right to complain, it's either Eul (who left a long time ago) or Guinsoo.
why does valve even want to make another DotA game, it seems like it will only split up the community even more, we already have wc3, HoN and LoL
[QUOTE=rilez;24201737]If anyone has the right to complain, it's either Eul (who left a long time ago) or Guinsoo.[/QUOTE]
He gon' bring out his rageblade
[QUOTE=Atrbfs;24202116]why does valve even want to make another DotA game, it seems like it will only split up the community even more, we already have wc3, HoN and LoL[/QUOTE]
Because they can do a better job of it?
[QUOTE=Leaf Runner;24200029]What are they whining about? One of them just set up a website and did some community stuff, one of them [I]helped[/I] to designed "Dota Allstars" which is simply a variation of dota, not the real official thing. Icefrog actually created dota.
[editline]10:33PM[/editline]
[I]PCG: Did you think that trademarking the name was even possible? Guinsoo, as the creator of DotA Allstars, [U]you have as much of a right to claim the “DotA” name as anyone else in the world.[/U] Why hadn’t you or Riot tried to trademark it before?[/I]
Seriously, DotA was the original, DotA Allstars was a modification of DotA.[/QUOTE]
You know nothing about dota. While Guinsoo didn't create it, Eul did, he created the most popular version, Dota-Allstars. Later he stopped updating it and icefrog took over.
[quote]the [b]millions[/b] of DotA players all over the world.[/quote]
what a joke
Guinsoo stopped working on it and turned it over to IceFrog. So IMO, IceFrog should be the one to decide since he is the one running the show and Guinsoo pretty much gave away all claim to the title.
He's spouting bullshit. They're trademarking it so they don't have a competitor to LoL, since Valve's DotA is most likely gonna be cheap/free, and develop it further.
I would be all over this if i was the guy being interviewed.
This isnt EA or Activision or some shit.
Its valve, which has ALWAYS been for the community and to me is the only gaming monarch that is really for its customers.
I bet valve has some plans for this and as always, would probably be a good plan.
Since it's a mod it requires warcraft or something right?
Not league of legends.
[QUOTE=DrBreen;24222407]Since it's a mod it requires warcraft or something right?[/QUOTE]
its an unoriginal map stolen from the original creator by "IceFrog" on warcraft 3
Excuse me for my small knowledge of games, but what is DoTA
They did a exellent job with LoL, Valve you're awesome but these guys earned it.
Yea I mean if Valve owns the DOTA name no one can create a DOTA inspired game without asking there permission basically
[QUOTE=Hboybowen;24275674]Yea I mean if Valve owns the DOTA name no one can create a DOTA inspired game without asking there permission basically[/QUOTE]
Then it will be AoS based
[QUOTE=Hboybowen;24275674]Yea I mean if Valve owns the DOTA name no one can create a DOTA inspired game without asking there permission basically[/QUOTE]
But will Valve even care if people do unless its a big company?
You can still make a Dota-clone. It just means that Valve (or Riot) would have the right to force you to change the name if said name is DotA.
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