To all the ideas guys out there, aka How I learned to mod, aka Orkel you fucking buttmunch

[TH89]

I typed up this huge reply to Austin2's "I'm an ideas guy" thread and Orkel locked it before I could reply so I'm just gonna post it here. It applies to anyone who has ideas for a mod that they don't know how to make.

=======

OP, let me try to explain something to you without making fun of you here. Everyone has ideas. Creative people like mappers, modellers, etc have LOTS of ideas. At any given moment we have way more ideas than we'll ever be able to use. Ideas, for artists, are really really easy to come up with. So a guy who can come up with ideas but not actually create anything is pretty much useless.

BUT.

Every one of us was an ideas guy once. When I was 12 I had an idea for a sweet Dark Forces 2 mod but I didn't know the first thing about modding, and my mod never got made. But the important thing I had was [i]passion[/i] for my ideas. I wanted to make my ideas reality really, really badly. So I said "okay, if no one wants to make my ideas I'll do it myself!" So I started learning modding.

My first mod, in 2001, was a skin for this rabbit in Dark Forces 2. I colored him red.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/HMBGe.jpg[/IMG]
It was pretty stupid, but I learned how to make textures and get them ingame.

In 2003, I made this chainsaw mod for Jedi Knight 2:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/BgXjy.jpg[/IMG]
The model is pretty shitty, but I learned how to compile a model for the Quake 3 engine.

In 2005, I experimented with particle effects and created a new missile model and smoke trail for Jedi Knight 2's rocket launcher:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/7fJGd.jpg[/IMG]
Again, not the most interesting mod in the world, but it got me some passing familiarity with basic scripting and shaders.

At the same time I mapped and mapped in GtkRadiant, and ended up producing a couple of maps I thought were pretty cool:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/vJRT1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/aSGI2.jpg[/IMG]

The second one there is from a mod I was making in 2001 called Cecocity: Legacy. It was to be a science-fiction story set in a universe that Uberslug and I had created. Like all total conversions for Jedi Outcast, it never saw the light of day, but hold that thought.

Around 2004 some friends and I tried to make a Matrix mod for Jedi Outcast:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/w6prm.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4h158.jpg[/IMG]

Again, it was way too ambitious, and never got finished. But, again, we learned a ton from it. One of our character modelers named Graves, who was a senior in high school at the time, went on to a career in game development and is now a character modeler for Neversoft. He modeled Lars Ulrich for Guitar Hero. Bam.

My last mod for Jedi Outcast was a velociraptor, modeled by me and textured by Graves. I posted it in 2005.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/B2yC2.jpg[/IMG]

Then one day someone ported the thing to Garry's Mod, sparking my interest in Source modding, and I've been here ever since.

Now, right now I am working on Galactopticon. I'm modeling for it, texturing, doing sound design, voice acting, making skyboxes, fixing stuff that's broken, etc. Planning on learning rigging and some other stuff as well.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MlfqH.jpg[/IMG]

I'm also writing the script, which is about as close to being an "ideas guy" as you can get. Ten years later, I'm making a mod set in the same universe as my old Cecocity: Legacy thing. And I get to be an ideas guy. It's probably the most awesome thing ever. But I never would have gotten here if I didn't have the passion for my ideas that drove me to teach myself modding.

Ideas guys: your ideas mean far more to you than they will to anyone else. You have more motivation to realize your own ideas than anyone else ever will. So if they are really as awesome as you think, buckle down and learn how to put them ingame. Believe me, it's worth it.

[Kube]

I always try to learn modding, but I have a horrible habit of to procrastinate until I'm out of free-time.

Although right now I'm trying to learn how to use the XSI Mod Tool to make models. :buddy:

[AxeI]

Well ideas seems like a good vector for motivation, unless you let them overrun you, which could be a bad thing, like when you think about a huge project and you give up once you think about all the work it would require. But I guess TH89's experience proves the contrary.
However it may be a good idea to try to specialise early when you're learning to mod, since "mastering" a skill takes quite a long time. I learned the basics of coding, modeling, texturing and mapping but didn't really took the time to go further. Then again I may lack motivation.

[~ZOMG]

If anyone wants to learn to map for GMod or ANY Source game (HL2, Episode 2, L4D etc.), the Facepunch mapping section is here:

[url]http://www.facepunch.com/forums/38-Mapping[/url]

And post beginner questions and shit in either of these threads:

[url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/770351-The-Mappers-Encyclopedia-Section-Rules-Question-Megathread-%28Read-Before-Posting%29[/url]

[url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/770351-The-Mappers-Encyclopedia-Section-Rules-Question-Megathread-%28Read-Before-Posting%29[/url]

[editline]23rd June 2011[/editline]

Firegod522's fucking awesome.

[Hazard24]

I want to learn how to model, but I don't know what program to use (which one is the best).

[~ZOMG]

[QUOTE=Hazrd24;30659996]I want to learn how to model, but I don't know what program to use (which one is the best).[/QUOTE]

It's all about preference. If you have a student email, I would recommend getting either Maya or 3DsMax. I use Maya, so naturally I recommend that one.

[url]http://students.autodesk.com/[/url]

It's better to use a well known program like Maya or Max because they have a shit tonne of tutorials.

[Hazard24]

Yeah I was thinking about autodesk because I do have an .edu email. I just need to figure out how to compile models to source now

[Géza!]

Fucking procrastination. That alone is why I'll probably never become an actual modder.

[MenteR]

i started making maps for hl1

[Meatpuppet]

[QUOTE=~ZOMG;30660206]It's all about preference. If you have a student email, I would recommend getting either Maya or 3DsMax. I use Maya, so naturally I recommend that one.

[URL]http://students.autodesk.com/[/URL]

It's better to use a well known program like Maya or Max because they have a shit tonne of tutorials.[/QUOTE]
I might actually do this. Thanks ZOMG and TH89, I will now learn to model for source, I can actually see what I'm going to do with this. :)

[jnxn_]

some pretty interesting stuff here thanks for sharing.

[Toikka]

Awesome thread! I am studying to become a game designer and it really helps to flesh out your ideas.

That's why I made Arcane. It started as a concept for "Dark Messiah Might & Magic 2D", with codename Dork Messiah (yeah, I know). I realized mouse-based swordfighting didn't really work in a platformer so scrapped that and added hardcoded controls. At the same time I had the dream of a full desert city in the game with lots of pedestrians.

'lo and behold, three months of work, I made Arcane: The Yamarian Nights, a tech demo including the majestic desert metropolis of Yamar.

[img]http://www.tomitoikka.com/projects/arcane/aspscreen.png[/img]

Here's also a video:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESqDemx6MfE[/media]

It goes to prove that being the ideas guy is actually pretty awesome. With the help of my friend Zee, we made my game concept into a full project. And this helped my portfolio a LOT. And best of all: no coding, I did this with Scirra Construct ([url]www.scirra.com[/url], the "Construct Classic" version) and it still has things like pixel shading, randomized pedestrians, hot air balloons and epic spells.

Remember: nothing is impossible. Don't just write, make a working concept!

You can download Arcane: The Yamarian Nights by visiting my website at [url]www.tomitoikka.com[/url] and going to Projects. It's at the top.

[Géza!]

This thread actually inspired me.

[Antonahill]

Is there any place online where you can learn stuff like this? (modeling, texturing, etc.) Preferably for free but if that's not possible then I understand.

[redBadger]

What people don't understand is that it takes time.

[Purple Magpie]

I've always wanted to be a coder, but I can't wrap my head around any of it. The tutorials I always found for Python were either riddled with codespeak, which I didn't understand at all, or for a completely different version than what I had. I also was interested in modeling, but I quickly found out that it was [i]far[/i] too complicated for someone like me. Which was fine for me, because I'm not that great with keeping myself on track with stuff like that.
I map a little bit for TF2, but I usually lose interest after a few weeks, because if I'm the only one looking forward to the map's finish I don't see a reason to actually finish it. I've abandoned two maps now, before I even finished the main areas. I still have both of them, although I've since come to the conclusion the first one was a terrible concept to begin with, but they're pretty much just sitting there.

This thread's inspired me to start my mapping again, even if my FPS in TF2 is terrible. Hopefully I can get some friends to help me with the ingame testing, and I can finish that second map. Even if it bombs and turns out shit, one of the areas is fun as hell to rocket jump around in. I may just copy that part out and leave it as a fun little play area by itself, it's a great relaxer after working for hours in Hammer and searching around ingame for issues to fix.

[Kube]

[QUOTE=Lijitsu;30665226]I've always wanted to be a coder, but I can't wrap my head around any of it. The tutorials I always found for Python were either riddled with codespeak, which I didn't understand at all, or for a completely different version than what I had. I also was interested in modeling, but I quickly found out that it was [i]far[/i] too complicated for someone like me. Which was fine for me, because I'm not that great with keeping myself on track with stuff like that.
I map a little bit for TF2, but I usually lose interest after a few weeks, because if I'm the only one looking forward to the map's finish I don't see a reason to actually finish it. I've abandoned two maps now, before I even finished the main areas. I still have both of them, although I've since come to the conclusion the first one was a terrible concept to begin with, but they're pretty much just sitting there.

This thread's inspired me to start my mapping again, even if my FPS in TF2 is terrible. Hopefully I can get some friends to help me with the ingame testing, and I can finish that second map. Even if it bombs and turns out shit, one of the areas is fun as hell to rocket jump around in. I may just copy that part out and leave it as a fun little play area by itself, it's a great relaxer after working for hours in Hammer and searching around ingame for issues to fix.[/QUOTE]

This is the same for me, both coding and modeling. Sometimes the modelling program I use would mess up and do something I don't know how to fix, I would ask someone who made a tutorial, and before they reply I would somehow accidentally fix it without knowing how. (Like right now in XSI when making a cube or any shape that has a subdivision the shapes would turn into a big mess of lines. How the hell do I fix that.)

[T.F.W.O.]

I have tons of unfinished Source maps and some textures I made. Source moodding was one of the hobbies that has made me pursue graphic design.

[A B.A. Survivor]

Hey, I try hard to put my ideas in to action.
The problem is that most of the time no one will help me when I really, really, really need help, and whatever I was doing gets abandoned because without help I can't continue.

[Meatpuppet]

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;30665437]This is the same for me, both coding and modeling. Sometimes the modelling program I use would mess up and do something I don't know how to fix, I would ask someone who made a tutorial, and before they reply I would somehow accidentally fix it without knowing how. (Like right now in XSI when making a cube or any shape that has a subdivision the shapes would turn into a big mess of lines. How the hell do I fix that.)[/QUOTE]

Those are called edges.

[sa2fan]

I remember when I modeled a shitty car using Google Sketchup. It was so blocky. I want to try model though, for example doing a weapon for Counter-Strike or animate something.

[arby26]

Dark Forces 2 was the best. I remember replacing the "particle effects" a long time ago, and I think the mod still exists on the JKHub.

[Tovip]

could someone make a list of good places to start with tutorials and programs for each category?
I really need to know where to start when it comes to coding and modeling

I know how to map but that's pretty much it.

[3noneTwo]

A friend and I have been discussing game ideas/mechanics for the better half of a year, but our biggest hurdle is trying to decide on an engine that is:
A) Suitable for 2D, and
B) "Friendly" enough to adapt to.

We've looked at combining [url=http://www.clickteam.com/eng/mmf2.php]Clickteam's MMF2[/url] with LUA coding, or using [url=http://ubi-art.uk.ubi.com/2010/07/07/how-do-you-create-an-animation-in-ubiart-framework/]Ubisoft's upcoming UbiArt framework[/url] (depending on its toolset), or just outright learning how to code in C++/C# + [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_XNA]Microsoft XNA[/url] and doing it from scratch, yadda yadda yadda...

We're artists, first and foremost. While we're capable of getting our minds around 'visual' code (he has experience with Processing, I've tooled with expressions in After Effects and a little HTML/CSS for personal web work), [i]programmable[/i] code is an entirely different ballpark. It is overwhelming, to say the least. :v:

The hardest part is figuring out where to start.

[Diet Kane]

whenever I try coding modelling or texturing someone ends up dying
so I just don't do it

[3noneTwo]

[QUOTE=Tovip;30674029]I really need to know where to start when it comes to coding and modeling [/QUOTE]
I'm by no means a modeler, but I recently looked into [URL="http://usa.autodesk.com/3ds-max/"]3Ds Max 2012[/URL], and it is very friendly for new/returning users. It gives you six "essential skills" videos to introduce you to the user interface, and then it has its own tutorials if you want to learn more, and some example projects to pull apart and play with as well.

Can anyone confirm if [URL="http://usa.autodesk.com/maya/"]Maya[/URL] offers the same/similar? Both programs are by Autodesk, so I'd assume so. [URL="http://usa.autodesk.com/maya/training/"]Maya offers tutorials right on the site[/URL].

I've tried [URL="http://www.blender.org/"]Blender[/URL], but I think my previous experience with 3Ds Max made it harder for me to pick up.

[s0m3_guy]

[QUOTE=Namelezz!;30661186]Awesome thread! I am studying to become a game designer and it really helps to flesh out your ideas.
[/QUOTE]

That engine would be perfect for a side scrolling shooter based on Facepunch.
You should name it Destination Facepunch

[Toikka]

[QUOTE=s0m3_guy;30677550]That engine would be perfect for a side scrolling shooter based on Facepunch.
You should name it Destination Facepunch[/QUOTE]

Ouch. People still remember that? :v:

That project was started and stopped so many times I stopped counting. It was one of Facepunch's first collab projects though, next to only FPDM. I was young and naive, it really didn't work out as planned - too many team members, too litte coordination.

Oh well, I might leave a tribute to one of my future games about it.

[i_speel_good]

[QUOTE=s0m3_guy;30677550]That engine would be perfect for a side scrolling shooter based on Facepunch.
You should name it Destination Facepunch[/QUOTE]
Hey guys lets make a sourcemod dedicated to the oify called OIFY: Codename Internets
[QUOTE=Namelezz!;30679984]Ouch. People still remember that? :v:

That project was started and stopped so many times I stopped counting. It was one of Facepunch's first collab projects though, next to only FPDM. I was young and naive, it really didn't work out as planned - too many team members, too litte coordination.

Oh well, I might leave a tribute to one of my future games about it.[/QUOTE]
Man... Half-Left... Project Fedora... Tortal!
edit: lol opera mini reports I'm from norway

[jeimizu]

I get an awesome idea, start working on it, then get a better one, and scrap my old idea so I never finish any of them.

I have about 200 unfinished .vmfs :v:

Some of them are decent, but I'm too busy with other projects to finish them.

[IMG]http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/93305972-3.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/56623893-3.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/82321056-3.jpg[/IMG]