TmarTn and Syndicate Go Virtually Unpunished in CS:GO Gambling Settlement - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote=Eurogamer]The case sparked outrage last summer when CS:GO Lotto's true ownership was uncovered. It's taken until now for the US Federal Trade Commission (FTC) to make its judgement. And what a judgement. TmarTn and Syndicate do not need to admit any culpability and will face no penalty for their past actions. Looking to the future, however, the FTC will require proper disclosure from the pair and will enforce violations. These will come with a hefty fine - of $40,654 (about £31k) for each infraction. "The goal of the FTC isn't to be a punitive or draconian agency," FTC spokesperson Mitchell J. Katz told Rolling Stone. "We are here to educate consumers about new markets."[/quote] [quote=arstechnica]Martin and Cassell will not face fines as part of the settlement but have agreed to "clearly and conspicuously disclose any material connections with an endorser or between an endorser and any promoted product or service" in the future. That punishment is barely even a slap on the wrist for what the initial complaint called a "deceptive act or practice" that could mislead and harm consumers.[/quote] [url]https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2017/09/csgo-lotto-owners-settle-ftcs-first-ever-complaint-against[/url] [url]http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-09-08-youtubers-escape-fine-for-promoting-csgo-lotto-site-they-secretly-owned[/url] [url]https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/youtubers-escape-fines-for-promoting-their-own-csgo-gambling-site/[/url]

[quote]"The goal of the FTC isn't to be a punitive or draconian agency," FTC spokesperson Mitchell J. Katz told Rolling Stone. "We are here to educate consumers about new markets."[/quote] CS:GO skins [I]is[/I] a new market.

[QUOTE=Steel & Iron;52661310]CS:GO skins [I]is[/I] a new market.[/QUOTE] But its just a video game though.

[QUOTE=trollbuster;52661336]But its just a video game though.[/QUOTE] A video game with a skin market of 2.3 billion dollars a year going through it.

[QUOTE=trollbuster;52661336]But its just a video game though.[/QUOTE] you can buy or sell tons of things here. Just like tf2, and dota 2, there are tons of people who don't even play the game, they just trade/flip shit on the market or other websites. It's totally a market, its just that people dont take anything virtual seriously.

Those bastards must be so smug right now.

[QUOTE=trollbuster;52661336]But its just a video game though.[/QUOTE] So people are replying debunking this post, I'm interpreting it as a criticism of the FCC themselves: they chose to ignore the multiple laws tmartn and syndicate broke by exploiting their [B]children[/B] fans because [I]it's just a video game[/I] and therefore the literal billions of dollars that travel through the industry on a yearly basis are invalid in comparison to money travelling through other industries.

This is a market where unregulated gambling is available to completely anyone. I see a lot of young folks in my Steam related Facebook groups gamble on roulette and coin flip sites, which is a huge shame if you think about it. Thousands of euros' worth of skins bought and sold every day just in our country to be all placed on betting and gambling sites.

Fine those 2 a few million dollars and it wouldn't impact their coffers at all, they'd just pay it and move on. But it's more of a message than just money, YouTubers: you can break the law and coerce your preteen fans into gambling in your casino, and you'll get away with completely free.

I feel like you guys have interpreted this incorrectly. Due to the fact they're the first to have been convicted in this specific market, they were given a slap on the wrist. Punishments for existing markets are a lot heavier. The next people to be indicted will face much, much harsher punishment. "The goal of the FTC isn't to be a punitive or draconian agency," FTC spokesperson Mitchell J. Katz told Rolling Stone. "[B]We are here to educate consumers about new markets[/B]." This is the education. This is the one chance people have to learn it's unacceptable. Not saying I'm agreeing with the tactic, but I understand it.

[QUOTE=Aetna;52662404]I feel like you guys have interpreted this incorrectly. Due to the fact they're the first to have been convicted in this specific market, they were given a slap on the wrist. Punishments for existing markets are a lot heavier. The next people to be indicted will face much, much harsher punishment. "The goal of the FTC isn't to be a punitive or draconian agency," FTC spokesperson Mitchell J. Katz told Rolling Stone. "[B]We are here to educate consumers about new markets[/B]." This is the education. This is the one chance people have to learn it's unacceptable. Not saying I'm agreeing with the tactic, but I understand it.[/QUOTE] while this is true, i feel like you'd be hard pressed to argue that they didn't know incredibly well what they were doing and why it was wrong. they outright lied to their audiences and attempted to cover it up after the fact. this wasn't a simple matter of an emerging market being ignorant of the laws that regulate them.

[QUOTE=trollbuster;52661336]But its just a video game though.[/QUOTE] There was a Russian mafia that was using TF2 to launder money. These video games are literally their own economies. Overwatch and CS:GO have enough money going through them to be their own countries. The exchange of virtual goods with no physical form is a new(ish) market (on this scale), and one that generates billions of dollars every year. Doesn't matter if it's through a video game or not, it's a market. [editline]9th September 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Steel & Iron;52661310]CS:GO skins [I]is[/I] a new market.[/QUOTE] CS:GO skins is a new market but mass amounts of money flowing through virtual goods is nothing new. Entropia was a big deal back in the day; some jackass took out a mortgage on his home to buy a $100,000 asteroid in the game, then sold another space station 5 years later for over $600,000. The FTC is a decade behind as usual, they're just now setting precedents for something they should have done years ago.

[QUOTE=trollbuster;52661336]But its just a video game though.[/QUOTE] Last christmas my cousin was really excited to show me the new game he plays on his ipad. It was [I]GS:GO Skins: The Game[/I]. Him and his friends all watch streams and play this game that's just a fake version of the skin store from CS:GO. (I was really confused for a second because it just looked like he was playing CS:GO on an ipad, but its only the inventory menus). Remember trading card communities that kids used to be a part of? He's got one of those, but for CS:GO skins! He has favorite guns and favorite skins for them, he argues with his friends over which skins are the coolest.. He's 9!

[QUOTE=Aetna;52662404]I feel like you guys have interpreted this incorrectly. Due to the fact they're the first to have been convicted in this specific market, they were given a slap on the wrist. Punishments for existing markets are a lot heavier. The next people to be indicted will face much, much harsher punishment. "The goal of the FTC isn't to be a punitive or draconian agency," FTC spokesperson Mitchell J. Katz told Rolling Stone. "[B]We are here to educate consumers about new markets[/B]." This is the education. This is the one chance people have to learn it's unacceptable. Not saying I'm agreeing with the tactic, but I understand it.[/QUOTE] while I guess it makes sense, I feel like the warning is wasted on people because now that the media has gotten a hold of it and titled it as "no punishment", everyone is going to come to the wrong conclusion.

[QUOTE=Octopod;52662618]while I guess it makes sense, I feel like the warning is wasted on people because now that the media has gotten a hold of it and titled it as "no punishment", everyone is going to come to the wrong conclusion.[/QUOTE] They look better in terms of public relation if they're lenient the first time around. This isn't uncommon, and the next person will be "made an example of", at least in terms of what those of us who understand the situation expect. Imagine being a person who isn't involved in the gaming industry - randomized purchased of "skins" won't make a lot of sense to the average joe, regardless of whether or not it's gambling.

[QUOTE=rider695;52661342]A video game with a skin market of 2.3 billion dollars a year going through it.[/QUOTE] I was criticizing the FTC not taking the CSGO skins market seriously, because its a video game.

I never got a good reason as to why gambling is illegal for minors. All I've gotten is objections based off of morals and how "addictive" it is which don't get me wrong I'm fully aware that gambling addictions are a thing, its just those that have the problem don't have very good money management and risk assessment skills in the first place and likely wont ever change their ways unless its their own decision. A very analogous scenario applicable to drugs indeed. I actually think introducing kids to poker or hell, even the inner workings of stocks would teach more about micro-economics in a week compared to semester long drawn out courses that tells you to be a square, don't take risks, and put everything in the bank and You'll be in the fast lane on the road of success! Which is horrible financial advice. I hate how restricted you are from achieving actual success until 1/4 of your life has been pissed into the wind.

[QUOTE=Shirt.;52662929]I never got a good reason as to why gambling is illegal for minors. All I've gotten is objections based off of morals and how "addictive" it is which don't get me wrong I'm fully aware that gambling addictions are a thing, its just those that have the problem don't have very good money management and risk assessment skills in the first place and likely wont ever change their ways unless its their own decision. A very analogous scenario applicable to drugs indeed. I actually think introducing kids to poker or hell, even the inner workings of stocks would teach more about micro-economics in a week compared to semester long drawn out courses that tells you to be a square, don't take risks, and put everything in the bank and You'll be in the fast lane on the road of success! Which is horrible financial advice. I hate how restricted you are from achieving actual success until 1/4 of your life has been pissed into the wind.[/QUOTE] Yeah I'm sure that the fact of a 9 year old is bad with money means that that's who they're gonna be as a person, and we should just let them fuck up their lives from day one.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52663014]Yeah I'm sure that the fact of a 9 year old is bad with money means that that's who they're gonna be as a person, and we should just let them fuck up their lives from day one.[/QUOTE] People will fuck up their lives all by themselves regardless of age. If not vices its another self destructive action. Also you have nothing to lose on day one and the 9 year old has the parental safety net when they screw up whereas the recently moved out college bound 21 year old is in no position to take a risk.

[QUOTE=Shirt.;52663031]People will fuck up their lives all by themselves regardless of age. If not vices its another self destructive action. Also you have nothing to lose on day one and the 9 year old has the parental safety net when they screw up whereas the recently moved out college bound 21 year old is in no position to take a risk.[/QUOTE] I like the implication that the 9-year old is in position to take a risk. Should 9-year olds just be allowed to do whatever? Sniff glue maybe? I mean they're gonna fuck up eventually, right?

[QUOTE=Shirt.;52662929]I never got a good reason as to why gambling is illegal for minors. All I've gotten is objections based off of morals and how "addictive" it is which don't get me wrong I'm fully aware that gambling addictions are a thing, its just those that have the problem don't have very good money management and risk assessment skills in the first place and likely wont ever change their ways unless its their own decision. A very analogous scenario applicable to drugs indeed. I actually think introducing kids to poker or hell, even the inner workings of stocks would teach more about micro-economics in a week compared to semester long drawn out courses that tells you to be a square, don't take risks, and put everything in the bank and You'll be in the fast lane on the road of success! Which is horrible financial advice. I hate how restricted you are from achieving actual success until 1/4 of your life has been pissed into the wind.[/QUOTE] Gambling is genuinely a scam dressed up an addictive 'game', IMO it should be banned worldwide - it's nothing but a plight on humanity, especially for some of the most vulnerable members of it. We protect minors because they don't have the context and experience to understand things for what they are. Gambling is addictive, and we can't allow people that are under-age to be exposed to it without understanding and knowing to avoid it for what it is. It's a pretty hard-line opinion, but I also think loot crates like CS:GO should be legislated like online gambling. [editline]9th September 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Shirt.;52663031]People will fuck up their lives all by themselves regardless of age. If not vices its another self destructive action. Also you have nothing to lose on day one and the 9 year old has the parental safety net when they screw up whereas the recently moved out college bound 21 year old is in no position to take a risk.[/QUOTE] You don't freely let teenagers have meth, it's inherently addictive and will completely take over their lives. The point of not letting kids and those under age make certain decisions is because they don't have the context they need to be informed about those decisions. All those bad decisions you made in school, with friends, lovers, etc, before you turned to age of majority, is supposed to be the context in which you make your decisions, such as to not gamble.

[QUOTE=Trekintosh;52661361]Those bastards must be so smug right now.[/QUOTE] [media]https://twitter.com/TmarTn/status/905839831028305922[/media] Look at the replies. "What about the Jeep?" "In the other garage." Fuck him. May the eternal fuckness be on him for all eternity. Fucking piece of shit. And the fine he was given means diddly squat when he made millions.

[QUOTE=trollbuster;52661336]But its just a video game though.[/QUOTE] And most gambling machines in casinos are also [I]just games[/I]. Games that create a massive cash flow, require a singular donation every time you wish to play them, and utilize psychological tricks to feed/play up a very real addiction. [I]Just like cs:go crates, ain't that interesting[/I]

[QUOTE=trollbuster;52662812]I was criticizing the FTC not taking the CSGO skins market seriously, because its a video game.[/QUOTE] You gotta be a bit more clear what you meant next time. Sounded more like you were dismissing the market because it's centered around a video game.

[QUOTE=Trekintosh;52661361]Those bastards must be so smug right now.[/QUOTE] "Whew good thing I brought my dog into court."

[QUOTE=Toybasher;52663529][media]https://twitter.com/TmarTn/status/905839831028305922[/media] Look at the replies. "What about the Jeep?" "In the other garage." Fuck him. May the eternal fuckness be on him for all eternity. Fucking piece of shit. And the fine he was given means diddly squat when he made millions.[/QUOTE] You did not read the article. They did not get fined, they got no punishment. Since the CSGO Gambling market is basically gone and dusted now due to new regulations. There is no reason for them to get into it again. So they wont get fined anyways.

[QUOTE=FezianEmperor;52663998]You did not read the article. They did not get fined, they got no punishment. Since the CSGO Gambling market is basically gone and dusted now due to new regulations. There is no reason for them to get into it again. So they wont get fined anyways.[/QUOTE] I don't think it being over is a valid argument for no repercussions, shit like this will pop up again. Besides, Valve aren't innocent in this, they knew what was happening and they didn't do shit about it until they thought the cross hairs may end up on them. Mainly because it was really fucking profitable. The message effectively being sent for when this kinda shit inevitably happens with different companies, YTers and games is that you can exploit children and break laws all you like provided you're rich and famous, just make sure you don't own up to your actions. If they'd fined the cunts then at the very least people would know we're willing to at least try and stop this, however ineffectual.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52663618]And most gambling machines in casinos are also [I]just games[/I]. Games that create a massive cash flow, require a singular donation every time you wish to play them, and utilize psychological tricks to feed/play up a very real addiction. [I]Just like cs:go crates, ain't that interesting[/I][/QUOTE] Also it's only tangentially relevant but I worked at one of those gambling machine places for a little bit and they are truly awful places. People refer to going there as their "second job" but they're burning money. People would come in, burn $100 and leave saying "alright, see ya tomorrow pal!" because in their mind, they'd get that money back. Moms sitting there shoving $20 after $20 into the machine while a kid sits in the car waiting. People would lie about "it ate my money" every time they ran out. Also the company guys that would come out to fuck with the machines carry guns. Weird to see guys with pistols on their hip wearing a "Gaming" shirt, but hey you gotta protect that dosh.

Fucking cunts.

[QUOTE=rider695;52663950]You gotta be a bit more clear what you meant next time. Sounded more like you were dismissing the market because it's centered around a video game.[/QUOTE] Fair enough, sarcasm's hard to convey when not spoken