A Swiss Banker Helped Americans Dodge Taxes. Was It a Crime? - Sensationalist Headlines

[URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/business/stefan-buck-tax-evasion.html?ribbon-ad-idx=3&rref=business&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Business%20Day&pgtype=article"]source[/URL] [QUOTE]Diane Butrus, a business executive from St. Louis, wandered the streets of Zurich, looking for a bank that would help her keep $1.5 million hidden from America tax collectors. One bank after another turned her down on that afternoon in 2009. They were worried about a United States crackdown on tax evasion and were no longer willing to shelter American money. Finally, across the street from a city park, up a discreet elevator, seated in a luxurious conference room, Ms. Butrus found a banker ready to help. His name was Stefan Buck. Mr. Buck said that his employer, Bank Frey, would be happy to take Ms. Butrus’s money, according to court documents and interviews with Mr. Buck and Ms. Butrus. He instructed her to wire the $1.5 million to Bank Frey. He told her that her name wouldn’t be attached to the new account. It would be known internally as Cardinal, an alias she chose in a nod to her favorite baseball team. After that, Ms. Butrus contacted Mr. Buck via prepaid cellphones she picked up at a Walgreens drugstore. Every six months or so, she flew to Zurich to withdraw money directly from Mr. Buck. She would return to the United States secretly carrying just under $10,000 in cash — the cutoff for having to make a customs declaration. The setup allowed Ms. Butrus to avoid paying tens of thousands of dollars in income taxes. And it wouldn’t have been possible without Mr. Buck and Bank Frey. As much as chocolate and watches, Switzerland is known for bank secrecy. That made the country a destination for money that the wealthy wanted to hide. Last decade, it also made Swiss banks targets for an assault by the United States government, which was tired of Americans escaping taxes on money in offshore accounts.[/QUOTE]

Tax Evasion is a crime, so yes.

I say we launch all these libertarian tax evaders to Mars so they can build their Atlas Shrugged completely free market society and we’ll see how long that lates.

[QUOTE=Daemon White;53032734]Tax Evasion is a crime, so yes[/QUOTE] That really depends on Switzerland and the agreements it has with the US. You'd normally use trade agreements and other kinds of international political means to sort out these things, not (necessarily/at first) a criminal court.

This isn't even about some middle or lower class person. This is someone in an upper class wanting to hide 1.5 MILLION dollars and was willing to fly back and forth from USA to Zurich, being able to only take 10K with them each time while using prepaid cellphones for contacting the guy to avoid getting questioned or spotted by authorities. "But she would've been taxed tens of thousands of dollars! :c" Cry me a fucking river. [B]TENS[/B] of thousands. Not even 100K. Poor rich fucker, they only have 1.49 million dollars instead now :c [editline]7th January 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Tamschi;53032768]That really depends on Switzerland and the agreements it has with the US. You'd normally use trade agreements and other kinds of international political means to sort out these things, not (necessarily/at first) a criminal court.[/QUOTE] Ok, so then if there's agreements and things, then why do they have to be so discreet about it? Prepaid phones, a bank account not in their name, a trip every 6 months or so.

[QUOTE=Daemon White;53032776][...] Ok, so then if there's agreements and things, then why do they have to be so discreet about it? Prepaid phones, a bank account not in their name, a trip every 6 months or so.[/QUOTE] It's still illegal for the customers/Americans, but the article asks about the [I]Swiss[/I] banker who did this [I]purely in Switzerland[/I].

[QUOTE=Llamalord;53032760]I say we launch all these libertarian tax evaders to Mars so they can build their Atlas Shrugged completely free market society and we’ll see how long that lates.[/QUOTE] What and pay for their rocket? That's socialism

[QUOTE=Tamschi;53032793]It's still illegal for the customers/Americans, but the article asks about the [I]Swiss[/I] banker who did this [I]purely in Switzerland[/I].[/QUOTE] Well shit, bad reading on my part then

The fact that they transported the funds back and forth in $10k increments, using what amounts to burner phones to keep in contact with their launderer is already shady as fuck. Its almost as if its a loophole they're using to avoid getting caught for a serious felony. :thinking:

[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;53033152]The fact that they transported the funds back and forth in $10k increments, using what amounts to burner phones to keep in contact with their launderer is already shady as fuck. Its almost as if its a loophole they're using to avoid getting caught for a serious felony. :thinking:[/QUOTE] of course the american citizen was committing an offense, but at the same time i don't know how i feel about american legal jurisdiction stretching to non citizens in their own country breaking none of their own laws. [editline]7th January 2018[/editline] the whole article is pretty interesting and i recommend everyone reads the entire thing

can't really fault the swiss on this, isn't it a flaw with the american tax system that this can happen? doesn't the IRS care about the missing 1.5$m? and why is the amount of undeclared cash so high? seems like something even average people could easily abuse. surely $500 would be plenty for legitimate uses and low enough that it would be impractical to abuse

[QUOTE=krail9;53033350]can't really fault the swiss on this, isn't it a flaw with the american tax system that this can happen? doesn't the IRS care about the missing 1.5$m? and why is the amount of undeclared cash so high? seems like something even average people could easily abuse. surely $500 would be plenty for legitimate uses and low enough that it would be impractical to abuse[/QUOTE] $500 is way too low, $5000 would be closer to a reasonable amount.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;53033252]of course the american citizen was committing an offense, but at the same time i don't know how i feel about american legal jurisdiction stretching to non citizens in their own country breaking none of their own laws. [editline]7th January 2018[/editline] the whole article is pretty interesting and i recommend everyone reads the entire thing[/QUOTE] I mean, to an extent America's "War on Drugs" is pretty much exactly what happens when their legal influence creeps beyond their borders [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcotic_Drugs_and_Psychotropic_Substances_Act,_1985#Background"]to become a foreign arm-twisting campaign for other countries[/URL], so there's that precedent.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;53033361]$500 is way too low, $5000 would be closer to a reasonable amount.[/QUOTE] perhaps but this is just about declared vs undeclared, not straight up prohibited right? sure I can see someone having legitimate reasons for any large amount of money, but even something like $2000, you should have to justify it to customs and at least have the start of some kind of paper trail the IRS can check up on

[QUOTE=Llamalord;53032760]I say we launch all these libertarian tax evaders to Mars so they can build their Atlas Shrugged completely free market society and we’ll see how long that lates.[/QUOTE] Do you want fucking Bioshock? Because that's how you get fucking Bioshock.

Are there anyone who does not think this is a crime? - is the more interesting question to me. Besides the antisocial cunts who dodge taxes that is.

[QUOTE=St33m;53033920]Are there anyone who does not think this is a crime? - is the more interesting question to me. Besides the antisocial cunts who dodge taxes that is.[/QUOTE] again, the article isn't about the people dodging taxes in foreign banks but the foreign bankers themselves

[QUOTE=St33m;53033920]Are there anyone who does not think this is a crime? - is the more interesting question to me. Besides the antisocial cunts who dodge taxes that is.[/QUOTE] it's not a crime if it's technically not illegal, even if I don't like it

[QUOTE=Pigbear;53033961]it's not a crime if it's technically not illegal, even if I don't like it[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;53033926]again, the article isn't about the people dodging taxes in foreign banks but the foreign bankers themselves[/QUOTE] Touche. But being complicit in activity that is intentionally selfish, and detrimental to our economic system definitely should put you in the spotlight for some investigations.

She has to take it back by installments of 10 000... 1 500 000 / 10 000 = 150 plane rides * 600 for a ticket = at least $90 000 spent on plane rides!? AND she has to fly 150 times!? Flights from United States of America to Zürich [url]www.google.ca/flights[/url] From New York City 6 non-stop flights per day from $676 = $101•400 From Chicago 1 non-stop flight per day from $818 = $122 700 From Washington, D.C. 1 non-stop flight per day from $787 = $118 050 Also you become a criminal. Was it worth it!?

[QUOTE=Daemon White;53032776]This isn't even about some middle or lower class person. This is someone in an upper class wanting to hide 1.5 MILLION dollars and was willing to fly back and forth from USA to Zurich, being able to only take 10K with them each time while using prepaid cellphones for contacting the guy to avoid getting questioned or spotted by authorities. "But she would've been taxed tens of thousands of dollars! :c" Cry me a fucking river. [B]TENS[/B] of thousands. Not even 100K. Poor rich fucker, they only have 1.49 million dollars instead now :c[/QUOTE] False. You don't know the US tax code if you think she would owe that little. She would have owed around $500,000 minimum on that 1.5 million.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53034273]False. You don't know the US tax code if you think she would owe that little. She would have owed around $500,000 minimum on that 1.5 million.[/QUOTE] Perhaps, but it's what the article said.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53034273]False. You don't know the US tax code if you think she would owe that little. She would have owed around $500,000 minimum on that 1.5 million.[/QUOTE] Nice government debt you got over there, looking very... Overwhelming. Would be a shame if some rich person paid her taxes to help stop it growing

[QUOTE=01271;53034083]She has to take it back by installments of 10 000... 1 500 000 / 10 000 = 150 plane rides * 600 for a ticket = at least $90 000 spent on plane rides!? AND she has to fly 150 times!? Flights from United States of America to Zürich [url]www.google.ca/flights[/url] From New York City 6 non-stop flights per day from $676 = $101•400 From Chicago 1 non-stop flight per day from $818 = $122 700 From Washington, D.C. 1 non-stop flight per day from $787 = $118 050 Also you become a criminal. Was it worth it!?[/QUOTE] Funniest thing is, paying the damn taxes would have been a whole lot cheaper, by all likelyhood.

[QUOTE=01271;53034083]She has to take it back by installments of 10 000... 1 500 000 / 10 000 = 150 plane rides * 600 for a ticket = at least $90 000 spent on plane rides!? AND she has to fly 150 times!? Flights from United States of America to Zürich [url]www.google.ca/flights[/url] From New York City 6 non-stop flights per day from $676 = $101•400 From Chicago 1 non-stop flight per day from $818 = $122 700 From Washington, D.C. 1 non-stop flight per day from $787 = $118 050 Also you become a criminal. Was it worth it!?[/QUOTE] Depends on the money she earned off that starting balance from interest or dividends, or whatever other investments she may have had. It's not usually money just sitting in a box somewhere, it's money being used to generate more money. Also depends on where that money came from in the first place.

[QUOTE=Llamalord;53032760]I say we launch all these libertarian tax evaders to Mars so they can build their Atlas Shrugged completely free market society and we’ll see how long that lates.[/QUOTE] I say we make government completely transparent about our tax money usage, I also say we don't let governments bail out broken banks with tax money, also lets say we can block government from abusing tax money by us deciding where it should go %-wise, also lets make tax money more efficient and lower taxes, so that tax evaders have less reason to evade taxes. [editline]8th January 2018[/editline] Now, I believe paying taxes is beneficial to society even if the tax usage is inefficient, but it makes paying them much more painful since you know your money is getting basically stolen.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;53033252]of course the american citizen was committing an offense, but at the same time i don't know how i feel about american legal jurisdiction stretching to non citizens in their own country breaking none of their own laws.[/QUOTE] It doesn't. Switzerland wouldn't extradite him so he could've easily hunkered down if he wanted to. He chose to fly to the US and attend the trial.