Students’ gun protest turns violent in Stockton, California and leads to arrests - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote]STOCKTON, CA (KCRA) At least five students were arrested Friday as hundreds of others from several Stockton, California high schools walked out of classes in protest of gun violence. Students at Stagg, Edison, Chavez, Lincoln and Village Oak high schools were walking along streets, and Stockton police said some students threw rocks and damaged both police and citizen vehicles. Five arrests were made, including charges of battery on an officer, resisting arrest, taking an officer’s baton and vandalizing vehicles, including patrol vehicles, Stockton police said. Those arrested ranged from 14-years-old to 18-years-old. The 18-year-old was booked into the San Joaquin County Jail and the juveniles were cited to their parents, according to Stockton Police. During one incident, an officer approached a group of students attempting to leave a school by jumping a fence. When the officer approached the students, police said they fought with the officer and took his baton. The officer was patrolling an area of the high school while it was placed on lockdown. A person who saw the incident take place came to the officer’s aid until more officers arrived, police said.[/quote] [url]http://nbc4i.com/2018/02/26/students-gun-protest-turns-violent/[/url] [url]http://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/stockton/5-arrested-at-stockton-high-school-anti-gun-walkouts/103-522571877[/url] [media]https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/968357390017064960[/media]

I don't even have a grip on what facepunch's typical stance on gun control is. I'd probably be pissed too if any old cunt could stagger into a gun-store and buy automatic ordinance. Not that i condone mindless disorder on the streets though. [b]edit:[/b] Apparently i'm dumb. Gotta wonder why.

[QUOTE=St33m;53163497]I don't even have a grip on what facepunch's typical stance on gun control is. I'd probably be pissed too if any old cunt could stagger into a gun-store and buy automatic ordinance. Not that i condone mindless disorder on the streets though.[/QUOTE] It's okay if smart people have guns, don't give guns to dumb people. Honestly the best of both worlds for the US is probably to work with smart gun people to work out a mandatory training and safety course system that you have to do to be let anywhere near a firearm, with maybe having to redo it every five to ten years like old people and drivers licenses.

[QUOTE=Crimor;53163503]It's okay if smart people have guns, don't give guns to dumb people. Honestly the best of both worlds for the US is probably to work with smart gun people to work out a mandatory training and safety course system that you have to do to be let anywhere near a firearm, with maybe having to redo it every five to ten years like old people and drivers licenses.[/QUOTE] wait old people in the us have to redo driving tests?

[QUOTE=Marbalo;53163525]Pro gun people always seem to propose cumbersome bureaucratic procedures to somehow curb gun crime even though a much easier and decisive solution is right there on the table and is collectively ignored. The fact that some people actually think that in order to solve gun crime you'd have to virtually fix poverty and education on a federal level, nation-wide, is beyond wishful thinking. I dont think that it will solve anything other than to provide the pro-gun activists with the moral high ground of "well we tried" before the issue gets once again buried underneath more semantic back-and-fourths.[/QUOTE] Not exactly pro gun here, but what is this "easier and decisive solution" ?

Why do people think protesting violence by throwing rocks and assaulting police is going to fix anything?

[QUOTE=Sombrero;53163598]Why do people think protesting violence by throwing rocks and assaulting police is going to fix anything?[/QUOTE] Because when you're a kid trying to protest a very real problem which lingers over them day to day, [URL="https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/375593002"]it's very easy to feel like you're not being heard[/URL] when you have already tried the talking and rallying part. So they have to try and ramp it up to be heard. These are just kids trying to make it through school and onto college so they can contibute to the world, but when it comes to an issue which affects their everyday lives, it seems like no one actually takes into consideration what they want.

[QUOTE=icemaz;53163623] These are just kids trying to make it through school and onto college so they can contibute to the world, but when it comes to an issue which affects their everyday lives, it seems like no one actually takes into consideration what they want.[/QUOTE] Problem is also that teenagers don't typically generate or present good policies. I think it is great that teenagers can get more involved, but going younger for [url=https://www.aacap.org/aacap/families_and_youth/facts_for_families/FFF-Guide/The-Teen-Brain-Behavior-Problem-Solving-and-Decision-Making-095.aspx]rational policy-makers[/url] is most likely not going to lead to optimal results.

[QUOTE=Tudd;53163641]Problem is also that teenagers don't typically generate or present good policies. I think it is great that teenagers can get more involved, but going younger for [url=https://www.aacap.org/aacap/families_and_youth/facts_for_families/FFF-Guide/The-Teen-Brain-Behavior-Problem-Solving-and-Decision-Making-095.aspx]rational policy-makers[/url] is most likely not going to lead to optimal results.[/QUOTE] I'm not suggesting they write the policy, I'm suggesting that the people who do write them listen. These are kids who aren't being heard by anyone, and everyday someone makes a decision which negatively impacts them right now or their futures.

*Demonstrates against use of weapons* *Uses weapons*

I mean their entire generation is being slaughtered, who can blame them? Whether it's guns, heroin, or no health insurance, young people are being killed left and right, and the Conservatives want to do nothing but add to the problem. Trump should be a figure of empathy, but instead he ignores the children, he places his ego above the lives of those children, that is unforgivable. Personally I'm not a violent person, but I do support those whose voices are snuffed by the legislators who allow our children to die.

[QUOTE=icemaz;53163673][b]These are kids who aren't being heard by anyone[/b], and everyday someone makes a decision which negatively impacts them right now or their futures.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what you are referring to considering the Parkland survivors have garnered day-to-day coverage/interview for almost two-weeks now. Just for Parkland; There was a CNN townhall nationally broadcasted with survirors, a group featured on Ellen DeGeneres, two of the survivors now have more than a million followers on twitter, companies are boycotting the NRA with some of the survivors driving that, and students are organizing the March for our lives rally nation-wide school protest. Literally every day MSM news has featured survivors interviews regarding gun control. As of now, Florida is actually pushing pretty major gun legislation. Not even the Las Vegas Shooting garnered such attention and actual action like this. It is quite obvious that events like Columbine, Sandy Hook, and Parkland generate far more sympathy and people tune-in/listen because children being shot is even more-so devastating. Not saying any of this is bad, but I think the exact opposite of what you say is true.

[QUOTE=Kiwi;53163680]The point is to give everyone a chance to be heard. We may not take their advice but at least we can listen, give feedback, let that voice grow into something adolescence can help mature and make better politicians that can suggest or even make history by making better policies.[/QUOTE] That's impossible in America. Give maybe half a century to oet antagonization of divided society to end.

[QUOTE=Kiwi;53163734] What’s wrong with starting now or creating an idea? Voice that. If it gets heard enough. You might find people that agree with you even if the larger society doesn’t.[/QUOTE] Oh there's nothing wrong with that. I would even support this kind of thinking, if it weren't for the fact that due to said antagonization few even try that out of fear. Sure, some will listen and deal with opinions in civilized way, but wouldn't you personally be scared of the vocal majority that'll antagonize you for elaborating on your opinions? Being a voice of reason is hard in the current political climate.

[QUOTE=Tudd;53163641]Problem is also that teenagers don't typically generate or present good policies. I think it is great that teenagers can get more involved, but going younger for [url=https://www.aacap.org/aacap/families_and_youth/facts_for_families/FFF-Guide/The-Teen-Brain-Behavior-Problem-Solving-and-Decision-Making-095.aspx]rational policy-makers[/url] is most likely not going to lead to optimal results.[/QUOTE] The old folks haven't been doing so hot at that either though.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;53163525]Pro gun people always seem to propose cumbersome bureaucratic procedures to somehow curb gun crime even though a much easier and decisive solution is right there on the table and is collectively ignored.[/QUOTE] I can't speak for the public at large, but on Facepunch at least we've suggested such outlandish, impractical things as 'give the DoJ funding to do their job and prosecute straw purchases' and 'give the ATF funding to do their job and investigate FFLs'. Red tape, your 'easier and decisive solution', ignores that the three biggest sources of firearms used in crime are A. straw purchase, B. FFLs not following the law, and C. being given by a friend or family member, two of which are not significantly impacted by adding legal hoops to the process. A and B are also the most popular because straw purchases (a federal crime) are universally unprosecuted by the DoJ, and the ATF only has the funding to investigate FFLs once every 27 years on average. If the goal is to cut down on gun crime, why not start by addressing the non-enforcement of our current laws before you go creating new ones? And if you're going to dismiss addressing the underlying causes of gun violence, the things that make even our [I]non[/I]-firearm homicide rate [I]double[/I] the total homicide rate of the UK, as difficult and too long-term, you can't seriously suggest 'make it harder to legally buy a gun and wait for that to eventually trickle down into impacting the illegal market' as a decisive solution. Let's be generous and say we implement an Australia-style draconian solution, and somehow it works far better than it did in Australia, and after twenty years we manage to cut our firearm homicide rate in half. Great, now we just have an overall homicide rate between three and four times higher than other first-world countries. Considering that's about the same proportional drop we've seen since 1991 and people still see it as a massive issue, I don't think such an incremental improvement would be seen as problem solved. Let me be clear: I don't believe that putting gun classes back in schools or 'just fixing' mental healthcare are going to be the panacea that solves crime forever. It's a deep-rooted problem with a lot of little facets (and some [I]big[/I] ones that often go unmentioned, like the failed war on drugs) that all contribute to a broken social system which the ready availability of guns only exacerbates. There is no easy solution, but there are some areas we could target that could significantly address the problem, rather than taking a sledgehammer approach and hoping it somehow works out astronomically better than it did in other countries. If you want to complain about every issue being politicized, start with the fact that all our symptoms of an unhealthy society are distilled down into an issue of gun control. Even just better enforcing the laws already on the books- the ones that could be preventing straw purchases, busting law-breaking gun sellers, ensuring that criminal histories and mental illness are reported to the FBI, or properly investigating a troubled teen with [I]dozens[/I] of police visits to his home- is apparently off the table to both sides because it doesn't fit into that simple dichotomy. One side wants to restrict guns from the law-abiding. The other side wants to blame mental health, and then defund it. Targeted measures, to address statistically significant factors in gun crime? Lol, fuck that, amirite? I'm tired of this, you know? I'm tired of turning on the news to see children gunned down by a troubled teen with red flags a mile long that were never investigated. I'm tired of having to go to the newspaper to read that a bunch of teenagers shot each other over a drug dispute, because that's not significant enough to make more than local news. And I'm tired of seeing 'just make guns harder to get legally, problem solved' as an answer to a problem that is incredibly more complicated than that.

[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;53163515]wait old people in the us have to redo driving tests?[/QUOTE] After the age of 65, you're required to take a written test every 5 years or something. Which is horseshit, they should be taking BEHIND THE WHEEL tests. Old people cause so many accidents and fatalities due to their poor reaction time and physical inability to look around them.

We can pass all the laws we like, but until society conducts a serious reexamination of itself and addresses the toxic elements of our culture these events will continue in some form or another.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;53163816]The old folks haven't been doing so hot at that either though.[/QUOTE] Yeah I don't agree with a lot of their conclusions regarding gun control but it's hard not to sympathize with these kids and their frustration. Trump himself said yesterday that when a school shooting starts we get outraged, a few weeks go by, nothing happens, then later on a school shooting happens again and we repeat the process with seemingly nothing being done to stop it.

[QUOTE=St33m;53163497]I don't even have a grip on what facepunch's typical stance on gun control is. [/QUOTE] VERY anti gun control [editline]27th February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Crimor;53163503]It's okay if smart people have guns, don't give guns to dumb people. Honestly the best of both worlds for the US is probably to work with smart gun people to work out a mandatory training and safety course system that you have to do to be let anywhere near a firearm, with maybe having to redo it every five to ten years like old people and drivers licenses.[/QUOTE] Training and safety is not the issue, the issue is crazy people and criminals with guns. There are plenty of nutjobs who know all about how to effectively and safely use a firearms, and that's a problem

[QUOTE=Crimor;53163503]It's okay if smart people have guns, don't give guns to dumb people. Honestly the best of both worlds for the US is probably to work with smart gun people to work out a mandatory training and safety course system that you have to do to be let anywhere near a firearm, with maybe having to redo it every five to ten years like old people and drivers licenses.[/QUOTE] Teaching gun safety and the fundamentals of firearms in schools would go a long way too.

[QUOTE=GordonZombie;53164250]Teaching gun safety and the fundamentals of firearms in schools would go a long way too.[/QUOTE] No it really wouldn't. Once again, the issue is not people accidentally killing each other, the issue is people intentionally killing each other. Guns and how to use them has no place in public schools. If you want to get into that hobby, then that's your business

[QUOTE=proboardslol;53164268]No it really wouldn't. Once again, the issue is not people accidentally killing each other, the issue is people intentionally killing each other. Guns and how to use them has no place in public schools. If you want to get into that hobby, then that's your business[/QUOTE] Yeah, we don't need guns to feel more regular in society then they are already

These arguments are sounding pretty similar to those used by people who push abstinence-only sex ed in schools

I think if you want to require something for gun owners, it should be: 1.) UNIVERSAL background checks 2.) UNIVERSAL mental health evaluations additionally there should be a record of every purchase and sale of a gun in the United States so that the serial number for a weapon used in a crime can be traced back to whoever sold a weapon to a criminal, to crack down on straw purchases, and to see what licensed dealers are selling without a background check and crack down on them. Lastly, ALL sales in the USA must go through this process, so no more gun show or person-to-person/under the table sales. [editline]27th February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Apache249;53164302]These arguments are sounding pretty similar to those used by people who push abstinence-only sex ed in schools[/QUOTE] Sex education is necessary; if you don't learn sex ed then there is a higher rate of teen pregnancy in your area, since everyone has sex. Gun education is not necessary, since not everyone owns a gun or even wants to own a gun. The two things are not the same.

Maybe also a higher age cap, and perhaps limits on mag cap or round type

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164314]Maybe also a higher age cap, and perhaps limits on mag cap or round type[/QUOTE] There is no reason to ban magazine sizes or ammo types. And even then what “ammo types “ are suddenly more dangerous than others

[QUOTE=St33m;53163497]I don't even have a grip on what facepunch's typical stance on gun control is. I'd probably be pissed too if any old cunt could stagger into a gun-store and buy automatic ordinance. Not that i condone mindless disorder on the streets though. [b]edit:[/b] Apparently i'm dumb. Gotta wonder why.[/QUOTE] You're dumb because either you made an intentionally horrible strawman, or are very uninformed on what you are saying. To say that [I]"any old cunt could stagger into a gun-store and buy automatic ordinance"[/I] is not at all correct. We do have a background check system, it's not as thorough as it could be but it is reasonably strict. Gun shop owners will also strike conversation with people with the dual purpose of being friendly and getting a read on the person that's buying; if they don't feel right about the person they will ask them to leave. If they find you're particularly awful they may also take steps to deny your purchase abroad by calling other gun shops and warning them about you and calling the authorities. Another thing is you cannot buy "automatic ordinance" unless you apply for it through the ATF, wait for months or even years for approval because the ATF doesn't give a fuck about your submission, and said application can be denied for virtually any reason because you need an absolutely spotless record, not to mention permission from the local police chief. And even if you do get it, well the registry was closed back in '86 so the remaining automatic weapons on the marketplace are an ever dwindling number of beat up old guns with a very high price tag, into the $10,000's for the cheapest models. And once you finally have it, you're placed on a registry and you need law enforcement permission to travel with it.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53164332]There is no reason to ban magazine sizes or ammo types. And even then what “ammo types “ are suddenly more dangerous than others[/QUOTE] Well first off, mag sizes would slow shooters a whole lot. Ammo types could stop hollow points and that kind of thing

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53164332]There is no reason to ban magazine sizes or ammo types. And even then what “ammo types “ are suddenly more dangerous than others[/QUOTE] Hollow points I think, and teflon coated bullets I think are meant to pierce bodyarmor so they're a threat to police but that may be a myth