Tencent helps Chinese police arrest 120 PUBG cheat programmers - Sensationalist Headlines

[URL="https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-16/tencent-cracks-down-on-cheats-in-world-s-top-selling-video-game?"]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-16/tencent-cracks-down-on-cheats-in-world-s-top-selling-video-game?[/URL] [QUOTE] Tencent Holdings Ltd. is going after the cheaters and hackers that infest PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds as it prepares to bring the world’s top-selling game to China. Ahead of its official debut this year, the biggest gaming company on the planet has enlisted Chinese police to root out the underground rings that make and sell cheat software. It’s helped law enforcement agents uncover at least 30 cases and arrest 120 people suspected of designing programs that confer unfair advantages from X-Ray vision (see-through walls) to auto-targeting (uncannily accurate snipers). Those convicted in the past have done jail time. Tencent and game developer Bluehole Inc. have a lot riding on cleaning things up for China, which accounted for more than half the game’s 27 million users, according to online tracker Steam Spy. It’s also the biggest source of cheat software, undermining a Battle Royale-style phenom that shattered gaming records in 2017 and surpassed best-sellers like Grand Theft Auto V. The proliferation of shenanigans threatens to drive away first-time users vital to its longer-term growth. “There are more cheaters than any normal game because of the huge popularity,” said Daniel Ahmad, an analyst for researcher Niko Partners. And “China as a gaming country is very competitive. There’s a reason why e-sports and pay-to-win is so big there.” [/QUOTE]

I hate cheating in video games as much as anyone else, but arresting someone over it is a bit overkill

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;53057675]I hate cheating in video games as much as anyone else, but arresting someone over it is a bit overkill[/QUOTE] Well, most of those people make quite a lot of money based on cheats and hacks. I don't feel that sorry for those people to be honest.

[QUOTE=Mitsuma;53057677]Well, most of those people make quite a lot of money based on cheats and hacks. I don't feel that sorry for those people to be honest.[/QUOTE] Y'all really think someone deserves to be incarcerated in one of the worst human rights abusing nations for writing code that lets other people cheat at a videogame with the given reason that they make "a lot of money" in a country where the average wage is $4k a year. yikes

The fuck? Cheating in a video game just makes people upset, it’s nowhere near worthy of being fined or imprisoned

[QUOTE=Kommodore;53057718]Y'all really think someone deserves to be incarcerated in one of the worst human rights abusing nations for writing code that lets other people cheat at a videogame with the given reason that they make "a lot of money" in a country where the average wage is $4k a year. yikes[/QUOTE] Surprise surprise, being in jail sucks and happens when you commit a felony. Maybe you shouldn't be a part of something ilegal in the first place?

Its important to note that the Chinese justice system isn't exactly fair Not that I want to defend them, its basically like getting payed to go a theater and be obnoxious.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53057731]The fuck? Cheating in a video game just makes people upset, it’s nowhere near worthy of being fined or imprisoned[/QUOTE] The case could be made that by making and selling cheats that the offender here is undermining and actively damaging the business/profits of Bluehole. Now whether or not that's a legal case or a civil case, I'd wager the latter, well that's China's call and not mine.

[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;53057744]The case could be made that by making and selling cheats that the offender here is undermining and actively damaging the business/profits of Bluehole. Now whether or not that's a legal case or a civil case, I'd wager the latter, well that's China's call and not mine.[/QUOTE] That's indisputable, but I don't understand the proportionality that some people see here. On the one hand a commercial organization is losing a completely indefinable and elusive amount of profit versus the complete loss of someone's personal liberty and almost certain privation and corporeal punishment because of where it's taking place. It's an unequivocally awful thing to wish on someone for a totally nonviolent crime.

[QUOTE=Kommodore;53057775]That's indisputable, but I don't understand the proportionality that some people see here. On the one hand a commercial organization is losing a completely indefinable and elusive amount of profit versus the complete loss of someone's personal liberty and almost certain privation and corporeal punishment because of where it's taking place. It's an unequivocally awful thing to wish on someone for a totally nonviolent crime.[/QUOTE] What are you suggesting as an alternative for someone knowingly committing a crime? A fine instead of jail seems totally reasonable in this case to me but it would be ridiculous to suggest that all non-violent criminals should be let off entirely because Chinese jails are awful

Making cheating illegal could be dangerous as hell depending on how the law is written. You could fuck modders, people simply circumventing their own DRM (emulators,) and whatnot really badly. Although in most cases, it's only really companies that actively sell hacks that are legally gone after. That's probably an acceptable arrangement.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;53057738]Surprise surprise, being in jail sucks and happens when you commit a felony. Maybe you shouldn't be a part of something ilegal in the first place?[/QUOTE] implying it should be illegal in the first place marijuana is still illegal throughout most of the us, and everyone who smokes it should be in jail. maybe they shouldn't have been a part of it in the first place hackers and hack creators suck but should it really even be a crime

[QUOTE=Elspin;53057790]What are you suggesting as an alternative for someone knowingly committing a crime? A fine instead of jail seems totally reasonable in this case to me but it would be ridiculous to suggest that all non-violent criminals should be let off entirely because Chinese jails are awful[/QUOTE] bingo, a fine. or community service or probation, etc. can't argue your second point, although I'm not sure that's what I was suggesting

I think cheating should be thought of as a crime because it only serves two harmful purposes: to ruin other people's experience, and in turn damage the company's bottom line (nobody buys a game if they hear it's full of cheaters). The punishment should be paying damages to the studio, with jail time coming for repeat offense. There's no good that can come out of it, only damage.

[QUOTE=thejjokerr;53057901]Is reverse engineering private property against the tos or against the law? Because I'm confused now. It would seem obvious to me these hack programmers could be sued for selling their products, but arresting them?[/QUOTE] It depends on your country, but generally most countries allow you to reverse engineer software you paid for if it's to get it to work with a third party program or if it's required to run it or even if you just want to verify how the program works.

I suppose one can also draw parallels to other crimes on the same level of social harm like public intoxication, disorderly conduct, graffiti, etc. Stuff that may not really physically harm much if anything, but is seen of as criminally punishable. In asian countries, primarily China and Korea, competitive gaming is a very huge thing, so i makes sense from their perspective to hold this value, while a lot of western cultures don't really value it the same way. It's a bit of a cultural barrier I think for us to understand the harshness of the punishment, it's still absurd to face jail time I think, but I can see why it's a criminal offense to make and supply cheats if the proper cases are made and the proper boxes ticked.

[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;53057992]I suppose one can also draw parallels to other crimes on the same level of social harm like public intoxication, disorderly conduct, graffiti, etc. Stuff that may not really physically harm much if anything, but is seen of as criminally punishable. In asian countries, primarily China and Korea, competitive gaming is a very huge thing, so i makes sense from their perspective to hold this value, while a lot of western cultures don't really value it the same way. It's a bit of a cultural barrier I think for us to understand the harshness of the punishment, it's still absurd to face jail time I think, but I can see why it's a criminal offense to make and supply cheats if the proper cases are made and the proper boxes ticked.[/QUOTE] Then why not punish hackers who hack to unfairly win when money is on the line rather than the producers of the hacks, who's primary audiences are the masses?

[QUOTE=phygon;53058032]Then why not punish hackers who hack to unfairly win when money is on the line rather than the producers of the hacks, who's primary audiences are the masses?[/QUOTE] Im sure for similar reasons people often think drug dealers and distributors deserve harsher punishments than regular users? It's not my call on how the system works or why, I'm just trying to offer thoughts on what may be the rational behind it.

[QUOTE=Mitsuma;53057677]Well, most of those people make quite a lot of money based on cheats and hacks. I don't feel that sorry for those people to be honest.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I sure am perfectly content with them being rolled to the gas-vans and notorious organ-harvesters that compose China's prison system for coding a video game hack program.

I miss when video games were just games and hacks deserved a ban rather than a fucking prison sentence.

Reminder: This is Tencent Holdings, one of the megacorps that China actively supports. They produce god-damn near EVERYTHING in the emerging technology market of China. From games, to social media, to computer security, to online banking and money transfers they have their fingers in all the pies. And they almost certainly have some sway over the corrupt as fuck Chinese government as a result. A bunch of people producing hacks for the game they are just about to officially release and support in China (a fairly big title too considering that PUBG alone cranked Chinese Steam usage through the roof) would look really bad for a company that is already smothered in controversy about the freemium model games being addictive to the Chinese youth. Probably wouldn't take too much money to get the Chinese government to start doing cleanup for you before your most anticipated release yet.

I'm not sure about how I feel about the legality of cheat sites for multiplayer games and the legality of the "business" side of it. I do think that arresting the programmers behind the code isn't right. They were certainly doing it as a job they were assigned to do by whoever was running everything. Kommodore makes a good point - the people who were arrested are just people, trying to make a living. It seems like overkill to lock these people up, [B]ruining their lives[/B], simply because they developed cheat functions for a game.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;53057800]Making cheating illegal could be dangerous as hell depending on how the law is written. You could fuck modders, people simply circumventing their own DRM (emulators,) and whatnot really badly. Although in most cases, it's only really companies that actively sell hacks that are legally gone after. That's probably an acceptable arrangement.[/QUOTE] It's [I]relatively[/I] cleanly possible regarding online games, but that's still bad for accessibility modifications. (The companies really should be required to provide some basic ones then, though.)

[QUOTE=Kommodore;53057718]in a country where the average wage is $4k a year[/QUOTE] I was surprised by how much lower that is than I expected, so I googled around a bit and all the source I found put them at over $10k/year. Although that mistake is kind of understandable because wages have been changing fast. They more than doubled in the last 10 years: [img]https://i.imgur.com/iQ1qpd6.png[/img]

[QUOTE=Chris Morris;53058083]Yeah, I sure am perfectly content with them being rolled to the gas-vans and notorious organ-harvesters that compose China's prison system for coding a video game hack program.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Kommodore;53057718]Y'all really think someone deserves to be incarcerated in one of the worst human rights abusing nations for writing code that lets other people cheat at a videogame with the given reason that they make "a lot of money" in a country where the average wage is $4k a year. yikes[/QUOTE] Quite fast on interpreting my response that I want them in some gas chamber for creating cheats. Arrest doesn't have to imply jail sentence, stopping their business and getting fined for it would be enough. Sucks that they are in China but that wasn't my point. [QUOTE=srobins;53058106]I miss when video games were just games and hacks deserved a ban rather than a fucking prison sentence.[/QUOTE] Part of it is due to hack creators trying to market cheats, first selling them for fixed prices and now as a service.

its sickening and disturbing how many people want to put them in jail for something as trivial as this