Hungary detains migrant wanted for 70 murders in Pakistan - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote]BUDAPEST (Reuters) - Hungarian police have detained a Pakistani migrant wanted for murdering around 70 people in his home country, Hungarian and Austrian police said on Wednesday. In a statement, police in Hungary’s Bacs-Kiskun county said they had stopped a group of illegal migrants near the southern border with Serbia on Tuesday and identified the 35-year-old man among them. .... Austrian police issued a statement saying the arrest had been made after a tip-off from Austria to Hungarian authorities. They said the man had been planning to go to Austria with the help of people-smugglers. They declined to identify him on grounds of Austria’s data protection rules.[/quote] [url]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-hungary-arrests/hungary-detains-migrant-wanted-for-70-murders-in-pakistan-police-idUSKBN1CU303[/url]

How do you find your news Tudd? Do you just do a Google search for "immigration bad"

[QUOTE=r0b0tsquid;52840665]How do you find your news Tudd? Do you just do a Google search for "immigration bad"[/QUOTE] :thinking: [img]https://i.gyazo.com/64d626318af2707629bbdaf4886a845f.png[/img] You could be on to something

[QUOTE=r0b0tsquid;52840665]How do you find your news Tudd? Do you just do a Google search for "immigration bad"[/QUOTE] Fun fact: If you check r/the_donald, the story will usually be on there before he posts it here.

Yeah this happened a few days ago. According to the law, we can't send him back to Pakistan unless they guarantee he won't be executed. And if it turns out his asylum application got accepted in Greece, he'll have to remain here.

[QUOTE=Paramud;52842254]Fun fact: If you check r/the_donald, the story will usually be on there before he posts it here.[/QUOTE] 1. I don't use T_D except for the weekly glance to see how silly it is. Since it does have a certain amount of entertainment value and interesting reactions to news. 2. This story isn't even on there. [editline]31st October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Kecske;52842348]Yeah this happened a few days ago. According to the law, we can't send him back to Pakistan unless they guarantee he won't be executed. And if it turns out his asylum application got accepted in Greece, he'll have to remain here.[/QUOTE] A contracted killer with 70 murders under his belt might actually get asylum in Greece. What a joke.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52842836]2. This story isn't even on there.[/QUOTE] [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/7937a0/a_pakistani_man_suspected_of_having_killed_around/[/url] Granted, they use Breitbart as a source instead, but that isn't an acceptable source here.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52842836]A contracted killer with 70 murders under his belt might actually get asylum in Greece. What a joke.[/QUOTE] so you'd rather implicitly sanction executions for blasphemy? you can't just hand off your dirty work to a theocracy when it suits you and then piss and moan about it when they continue killing people.

[QUOTE=Cone;52843642]so you'd rather implicitly sanction executions for blasphemy? you can't just hand off your dirty work to a theocracy when it suits you and then piss and moan about it when they continue killing people.[/QUOTE] And other countries don't exist as safe harbors for extremely violent murderers. Do you like the idea of attracting hitman with record breaking kill counts to western civilizations because they know how to abuse a system? Because if you were for actual integration and asylum for people who needed it; You wouldn't be for this guy taking care and funds from a person far more deserving and needing real refuge.

You guys seriously defending a mass murderer? What the fuck is wrong with you?

[QUOTE=Paramud;52843098][url]https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/7937a0/a_pakistani_man_suspected_of_having_killed_around/[/url] Granted, they use Breitbart as a source instead, but that isn't an acceptable source here.[/QUOTE] That's what I get for using the mobile site to search and see if it was on there. But yeah I saw this article just on Reuters. It is one of my go to sites in actuality.

[QUOTE=maniacykt;52843724]You guys seriously defending a mass murderer? What the fuck is wrong with you?[/QUOTE] I have read this thread several times from top to bottom and I see nobody defending a mass murderer, let alone plural? Kindly point it out for me.

[QUOTE=maniacykt;52843724]You guys seriously defending a mass murderer? What the fuck is wrong with you?[/QUOTE] No, nobody is defending the murderer. Most news threads Tudd post involve real issues or tragedies, and this is no different. It's not the [I]interesting story[/I] people are upset over. If you browse SH, you'd know why people react this way.

[QUOTE=maniacykt;52843724]You guys seriously defending a mass murderer? What the fuck is wrong with you?[/QUOTE] this person almost certainly committed the crimes he's accused of and deserves to die. but i'm not about to accept [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Pakistan#Islamic_views_on_Capital_Punishment"]fucking[/URL] [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-33033333"]Pakistan[/URL] handling executions for us just to grease the wheels a little. if any of you actually gave a shit about criminal justice and Islamic fundamentalism once it ceased to be a convenient talking point, you'd already know that. you want this guy dead so badly you can take the time to do it lawfully, or shut up next time Saudi Arabia beheads a student.

[QUOTE=Cone;52843975]this person almost certainly committed the crimes he's accused of and deserves to die. but i'm not about to accept [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Pakistan#Islamic_views_on_Capital_Punishment"]fucking[/URL] [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-33033333"]Pakistan[/URL] handling executions for us just to grease the wheels a little. if any of you actually gave a shit about criminal justice and Islamic fundamentalism once it ceased to be a convenient talking point, you'd already know that. you want this guy dead so badly you can take the time to do it lawfully, or shut up next time Saudi Arabia beheads a student.[/QUOTE] Are you even going to to tackle the larger issue here or just focus only on if the death penalty is good/bad? Alot of people here are not for the death penalty, including me, but a lot of people here can also recognize that a nation is not obligated to harbor mass murderers and give them a free jail out of free card. Not only that, but it is counter-productive to the intention of granting refuge to actual refugees, since this guy will never integrate successfully and deserves punishment. If you actually cared about tackling Islamic fundamentalism, maybe advocating for groups and policies that put pressure on those nations to progress their societies would be better idea than what you are trying to push now.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52844087]Are you even going to to tackle the larger issue here or just focus only on if the death penalty is good/bad? Alot of people here are not for the death penalty, including me, but a lot of people here can also recognize that a nation is not obligated to harbor mass murderers and give them a free jail out of free card. Not only that, but it is counter-productive to the intention of granting refuge to actual refugees, since this guy will never integrate successfully and deserves punishment. [/quote] This guy is deffo a crim and should be punished, nobody here disputes that. I doubt anybody here believes he can integrate either - certainly nobody has even so much as alluded to that. He needs to be punished/put in prison. The issue is how do we go about doing this? We send him back and he dies because his country of origin kills for that crime, what other crimes should we allow people to die for? Drug dealing? Drug use? Political activism? Their religion? If we are going to have a rule then we need to be consistent. For me the ideal scenario is pakistan accepting him back on the agreement they won't kill him. Funnily enough I'm not wholley opposed to the death penalty in this case, its clear he's guilty of the crime and will never be a productive member of society, the problem is who decides who should die? Us sending him back is as good as us deciding he dies - which is bad. [quote]If you actually cared about tackling Islamic fundamentalism, maybe advocating for groups and policies that put pressure on those nations to progress their societies would be better idea than what you are trying to push now.[/QUOTE] Careful, your veneer got a crack in it

[QUOTE=Tudd;52844087]Are you even going to to tackle the larger issue here or just focus only on if the death penalty is good/bad?[/QUOTE] whether the death penalty is good or not is an entirely separate argument. [URL="https://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org/country-search-post.cfm?country=Pakistan"]Pakistan executes people who by all standards do not deserve it, often doesn't follow due process, and may or may not be using its executions as a political weapon rather than a tool of criminal justice.[/URL] whether you think the death penalty is warranted is beside the point that Pakistan implements it atrociously. [QUOTE=Tudd;52844087]Alot of people here are not for the death penalty, including me, but a lot of people here can also recognize that a nation is not obligated to harbor mass murderers and give them a free jail out of free card.[/QUOTE] A) it's not a "a free jail out of free card" if they still go to jail for the rest of their lives, and B) even if it was, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_moratorium_on_the_death_penalty"]you literally [I]are[/I] obligated[/URL] [URL="http://www.asylumlawdatabase.eu/en/case-law-search?f[0]=field_keywords%3A206"]to prevent them[/URL] [URL="http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004L0083:en:HTML"]from being executed.[/URL] it's not much of an abolition or a moratorium if you can just outsource your executions to Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. [QUOTE=Tudd;52844087]Not only that, but it is counter-productive to the intention of granting refuge to actual refugees, since this guy will never integrate successfully and deserves punishment.[/QUOTE] punishment which he'll get? he's going to prison. he just won't get lumped in with blasphemers and apostates like in a Pakistani prison. i suppose you'd rather he did? [QUOTE=Tudd;52844087]If you actually cared about tackling Islamic fundamentalism, maybe advocating for groups and policies that put pressure on those nations to progress their societies would be better idea than what you are trying to push now.[/QUOTE] my current Conservative government has sanctioned these criminal nations for as long as i can remember, and it's never gotten any less disgusting. they go after innocent British Muslims for the campaign points and then roll over for the real murderers once an arms or oil deal is in place. i do what i can. but that's probably not the "groups and policies" you're talking about, is it?

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52843831]I have read this thread several times from top to bottom and I see nobody defending a mass murderer, let alone plural? Kindly point it out for me.[/QUOTE] He isn't going to reply, nor are the numerous people who happen to agree with them. [editline]1st November 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Tudd;52844087] If you actually cared about tackling Islamic fundamentalism, maybe advocating for groups and policies that put pressure on those nations to progress their societies would be better idea than what you are trying to push now.[/QUOTE] You have said several times that you are worried about increased political polarization and that you think moderates risk being bullied by one side or the other, but it seems to me that you are making the argument that if you don't support someone like Donald Trump or his international equivalents then you don't really care about Islamic fundamentalism. Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression though.

[QUOTE=Cone;52844194][B]Bleeding heart words only really posted because Tudd is annoying.[/B][/QUOTE] Pakistani citizens get pakistani punishments from the pakistani authorities. When it's unfair (which is almost always), we can circle-jerk about it. But the fucker killed 70 people. Hopefully, Hungary requests a refund from Pakistan and that'll be it. [quote]but i'm not about to accept fucking Pakistan handling executions for us just to grease the wheels a little.[/quote] Too bad. They're a sovereign fucking nation and he's a citizen of said country. Their rules and unlike the cases you're ACTUALLY protesting about, he knew the deal when he killed 70 people. Yes. we do need to sanction these states that condemn people to insane punishments for actions that should fall under their personal right to live free. But you're gonna have to think about whether this guys case is really the hill you want to die on. He's really not at all within the bracket of cases people talk about when they discuss insane legislation and punishment systems abroad. You can always start advocating invasion policies to your local representative. See how that goes over. That's just about the only way you get to dictate what happens to this particular shitbird.

[QUOTE=Bomimo;52845553]Pakistani citizens get pakistani punishments from the pakistani authorities. When it's unfair (which is almost always), we can circle-jerk about it. But the fucker killed 70 people. Hopefully, Hungary requests a refund from Pakistan and that'll be it. Too bad. They're a sovereign fucking nation and he's a citizen of said country. Their rules and unlike the cases you're ACTUALLY protesting about, he knew the deal when he killed 70 people. Yes. we do need to sanction these states that condemn people to insane punishments for actions that should fall under their personal right to live free. But you're gonna have to think about whether this guys case is really the hill you want to die on. He's really not at all within the bracket of cases people talk about when they discuss insane legislation and punishment systems abroad. You can always start advocating invasion policies to your local representative. See how that goes over. That's just about the only way you get to dictate what happens to this particular shitbird.[/QUOTE] "we do need to sanction these states but not when it helps us circumvent international law" we set some standards for ourselves, i expect us to to fucking meet them. if actually placing some value in our words makes me a bleeding heart, then i can live with being a bleeding heart. i'll even say the guy deserves to die if it makes you feel any better. but you're honestly asking me to choose between keeping a modicum of faith in the rule of law, or allowing a crooked theocracy the right to execute a criminal who'll spend the rest of his life in prison anyway - a right they've done nothing but abuse? which one do you honestly think weighs up?

Maybe i'm coming at this all wrong, but i feel like making any kind of fuss in favor of this guy is a waste of time, when there's a 16-yearold rape victim up for execution tomorrow. Can we just at least not focus a debate on humane treatment of criminals, corrupt trials and insane laws on a guy who literally fucking spent his entire adult life murdering for money? There are no mitigating factors here. I don't give a shit if and how they execute him. They can suffocate him in the ass of an elephant after ripping his arms off for all i care. This is really not the person to use as a focus for this debate. Not even remotely. Anyone in support of, or ambivalent to the status quo is just gonna react how i did and then apply that same ambivalence to tomorrows state-sanctioned murder of a rape-victim and the day after, put to death six demonstrators. In most peoples minds, there's really only room for one (literally to some people) "mascot" this is not the candidate and opponents are always using weak points in said figurehead to deconstruct the opportunity to do good. So yeah. They need to send him back, they need to look the other way while they do whatever they do to him and they need to be ready to be outraged at the next execution for negligible crimes or breach of unfair laws AND they need to be ready to flip shit if he walks free. It's cynical and to most, unacceptable, but this is how politics work.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;52845435]He isn't going to reply, nor are the numerous people who happen to agree with them.[/quote] Side point: I think people are conflating Cone defending this guy with being against a Pakistani execution. Which I can actually understand is not a defense for the person and his actions. I hate when people conflate my defense of freedom of speech with Nazis as if I support their actions, so thought this is worth pointing out. [quote] You have said several times that you are worried about increased political polarization and that you think moderates risk being bullied by one side or the other, but it seems to me that you are making the argument that if you don't support someone like Donald Trump or his international equivalents then you don't really care about Islamic fundamentalism. Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression though.[/QUOTE] I would agree that is a weird and wrong impression to get from me on this since I never suggested he had to support any specific politician. Just that a group/politician who focuses on the progression of places like Pakistan through various policies would be better to fixing a source of a problem than just taking their mass murderers off them. What I was arguing was that it might be more consistent if you want to help refugees by not letting Hitman use the system to care/harbor war-fleeing refugees to use it as a loophole asylum tool. If your first thought is that I am pushing him towards Trump/equivalents to point that out, I gotta say you might be ignoring that such a policy of harboring criminals is detrimental to taking care of legitimate refugees as they now take care/funds away from them. Why is that inherently right or left wing to point that out? [editline]1st November 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Cone;52844194]whether the death penalty is good or not is an entirely separate argument. [URL="https://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org/country-search-post.cfm?country=Pakistan"]Pakistan executes people who by all standards do not deserve it, often doesn't follow due process, and may or may not be using its executions as a political weapon rather than a tool of criminal justice.[/URL] whether you think the death penalty is warranted is beside the point that Pakistan implements it atrociously.[/quote] I totally concur with you that Pakistan is a terrible place for implementing the death penalty on people who don't deserve it, but I also acknowledge that in this case it is vastly more valid as criminal justice and that this offender is a sovereign citizen of that nation. [quote] A) it's not a "a free jail out of free card" if they still go to jail for the rest of their lives, and B) even if it was, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_moratorium_on_the_death_penalty"]you literally [I]are[/I] obligated[/URL] [URL="http://www.asylumlawdatabase.eu/en/case-law-search?f[0]=field_keywords%3A206"]to prevent them[/URL] [URL="http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004L0083:en:HTML"]from being executed.[/URL] it's not much of an abolition or a moratorium if you can just outsource your executions to Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.[/quote] You see that is more of a phrase than me being literal. I would hope he actually at the very least ends up in a jail, if not, then it is more of a joke than it already is. Also it isn't outsourcing the death penalty; He is a Pakistani criminal that nobody would have argued his punishment until he crossed a border illegally. There are valid reasons to grant asylum that I can get behind. [quote] punishment which he'll get? he's going to prison. he just won't get lumped in with blasphemers and apostates like in a Pakistani prison. i suppose you'd rather he did?[/quote] Honestly I would really like to know where he does end up. If you do have more information on what his predictable conclusion out of this is, please let me know. [quote] my current Conservative government has sanctioned these criminal nations for as long as i can remember, and it's never gotten any less disgusting. they go after innocent British Muslims for the campaign points and then roll over for the real murderers once an arms or oil deal is in place. i do what i can. but that's probably not the "groups and policies" you're talking about, is it?[/QUOTE] I mean props to you then for realizing that is important, even if you don't believe it is successful, but I am not sure why this idea of having to take in a person like this is valid. Persecuted homosexuals, religious, and ethnic groups I see as some of the valid reasons to grant this asylum, but a convicted criminal with 70 murders under his belt? I would have to say there should be no obligation for a nation to be expected to harbor such criminals and they can be domestically tried in their own country. It just isn't even realistic imo for nations like Greece to be expected to harbor any criminals just because their home nations laws are not of western civilization standards. Now I am just presenting this example for the sake of consistency; What would you say about Nazis who escaped to South America, Spain, or other places, like Adolf Eichmann, and were doing it to escape justice in the likely form of the death penalty? Was it wrong for those nations to give them up knowing their lives would end at the death penalty instead of life in prison? And I am only asking it because I think it would be more respectable if you consistently said yes.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52845899] I would agree that is a weird and wrong impression to get from me on this since I never suggested he had to support any specific politician. Just that a group/politician who focuses on the progression of places like Pakistan through various policies would be better to fixing a source of a problem than just taking their mass murderers off them. What I was arguing was that it might be more consistent if you want to help refugees by not letting Hitman use the system to care/harbor war-fleeing refugees to use it as a loophole asylum tool. If your first thought is that I am pushing him towards Trump/equivalents to point that out, I gotta say you might be ignoring that such a policy of harboring criminals is detrimental to taking care of legitimate refugees as they now take care/funds away from them. Why is that inherently right or left wing to point that out? [/QUOTE] What groups or policies do you recommend [QUOTE]that put pressure on those nations to progress their societies would be better idea than what you are trying to push now.[/QUOTE] then?