Officer’s death intensifies scrutiny of herbal supplement Kratom - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote] ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — Matt Dana was known around the Adirondack Mountain town where he grew up as a promising young police sergeant who worked hard to root out narcotics dealers. So it came as a shock to friends and co-workers when he died suddenly this summer and an autopsy attributed it to an overdose. It wasn’t from drugs, but from kratom, an herbal supplement sold online and in convenience stores, gas stations and smoke shops. “It was the talk of the town. People were upset it was reported as an overdose,” said Paul Maroun, mayor of Tupper Lake in the central Adirondacks 110 miles northwest of Albany. “It’s not an illegal drug.”[/quote] [url]https://apnews.com/e9986e318f7d4c47a3dc4189c5054bdd?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP[/url]

A drug doesn't have to be illegal for you to overdose on it.

Don't think this was a overdose from just kratom, it had to be something else aswell. It is hard to overdose on kratom, you just start getting very sick to your stomach.

[QUOTE=The Jackal;52735427]Don't think this was a overdose from just kratom, it had to be something else aswell. It is hard to overdose on kratom, you just start getting very sick to your stomach.[/QUOTE] Allergic reaction maybe?

[QUOTE=Crimor;52735431]Allergic reaction maybe?[/QUOTE] That is plausible, as is being some altered type of kratom with high levels of O-Desmethyltramadol.

A [URL="http://irep.iium.edu.my/340/1/In_utero_effect_of_MS_on_Neural_Tube_Formation_in_Rats.pdf"]study on kratom[/URL] which attempted to assess the LD50 (lethal dosage) hit 1500mg/kg without killing the test subjects. Which I have to point out is an [I]absurd[/I] amount, for a 75kg adult that's a quarter pound of just the alkaloids that represent the active ingredient. As far as I'm aware it's considered impossible to OD on kratom- someone correct me if there's newer research I've missed, but it sure sounds like the kratom itself is not the root cause here.

He died from pulmonary edema, which could be caused by a lot of drugs, but isn't a known side effect of kratom at this time. AFAIK it's only ever happened in 1-2 other people, and of those people they were pretty athletic. It's entirely possible that the pain reduction caused them to overwork themselves while lifting or running. Especially with lifting, some people have a reaction to hold their breath, which leads to all sorts of nasty shit like passing out, burst veins in the eyes or probably bleeding in the lungs from spiking blood pressure. I'm not a medical professional at any level, but that's what my intuition and experience at the gym tells me. Going anecdotal here, but kratom allows me to push myself further than I typically could with a normal pain threshold. I wake up in the morning half-limping because I run up the stairs and I generally walk faster than I usually do after a good dose. The one time I did any lifting on kratom, I had grabbed and picked up a 350-400lb telephone circuit station from the 1970s and carried it down the stairs like I was carrying a box of marshmallows. The next day, I woke up in severe pain because I had pulled muscles in my arms and my legs just by picking it up off of the floor.

[QUOTE=catbarf;52735461]A [URL="http://irep.iium.edu.my/340/1/In_utero_effect_of_MS_on_Neural_Tube_Formation_in_Rats.pdf"]study on kratom[/URL] which attempted to assess the LD50 (lethal dosage) hit 1500mg/kg without killing the test subjects. Which I have to point out is an [I]absurd[/I] amount, for a 75kg adult that's a quarter pound of just the alkaloids that represent the active ingredient. As far as I'm aware it's considered impossible to OD on kratom- someone correct me if there's newer research I've missed, but it sure sounds like the kratom itself is not the root cause here.[/QUOTE] Wait, that shit is less lethal than marijuana? What

Kratom is a miracle worker. I have seen several addicts who have taken it in order to get off heroin and methadone, and to avoid the withdrawal symptoms while doing so. I plan on eventually growing two kratom trees in my backyard, among other medicine crops like toothache tree, wild lettuce, ect.

i eyedrop 50ml FST into my winking maw of an arsehole every day, so as this thread's resident kratom expert i can state that it is not addictive in the slightest

Kratom is completely harmless, non-habit forming, and highly beneficial as an occasional supplement to one's day. It has been proven to effectively treat opiate addiction, as well as chronic pain and lethargy (in appropriate dosages.) The DEA recently attempted to schedule Kratom as a schedule 1 drug (like LSD and heroin), but due to public backlash over the "dangers" of Kratom, the DEA stepped back.

I was actually pulled over by this guy before for speeding. What a small world

[QUOTE=Aztec;52735766]I was actually pulled over by this guy before for speeding. What a small world[/QUOTE] Hopefully you're not thinking that you have vengeful powers against anyone who gives you a ticket now :v:

Kratom is a delta opioid receptor agonist, and because it has affinity for certain opiate receptors, people assume its just as addictive and dependant as regular synthetic, semi synthetic, and natural opiates which is stupid

[QUOTE=zombini;52735556]He died from pulmonary edema, which could be caused by a lot of drugs, but isn't a known side effect of kratom at this time. AFAIK it's only ever happened in 1-2 other people, and of those people they were pretty athletic. It's entirely possible that the pain reduction caused them to overwork themselves while lifting or running. Especially with lifting, some people have a reaction to hold their breath, which leads to all sorts of nasty shit like passing out, burst veins in the eyes or probably bleeding in the lungs from spiking blood pressure. I'm not a medical professional at any level, but that's what my intuition and experience at the gym tells me. Going anecdotal here, but kratom allows me to push myself further than I typically could with a normal pain threshold. I wake up in the morning half-limping because I run up the stairs and I generally walk faster than I usually do after a good dose. The one time I did any lifting on kratom, I had grabbed and picked up a 350-400lb telephone circuit station from the 1970s and carried it down the stairs like I was carrying a box of marshmallows. The next day, I woke up in severe pain because I had pulled muscles in my arms and my legs just by picking it up off of the floor.[/QUOTE] As a recurrent alcoholic who has fucked themself up repeatedly because of pushed limits while under the influence that is fucking horrifying to me.

[QUOTE=Quark:;52735748]Kratom is completely harmless, non-habit forming, and highly beneficial as an occasional supplement to one's day. It has been proven to effectively treat opiate addiction, as well as chronic pain and lethargy (in appropriate dosages.) The DEA recently attempted to schedule Kratom as a schedule 1 drug (like LSD and heroin), but due to public backlash over the "dangers" of Kratom, the DEA stepped back.[/QUOTE] i've peered at the 'kratom community' on and off through the speculum of the internet and i can categorically state that it can absolutely be habit forming, and while you're going to be pretty hard pressed to overdose on it, the thing remains an opioid and on top of absolutely being moderately addictive can potentially adversely interact with medications and other substances you may have ingested. it almost certainly didn't kill this dude but it's always shit like this that brings the "well, actually [lying by omission about their vice of choice]" out of the woodwork i guess what i'm trying to say, kids, is that if you're going to buy drugs, buy something cooler than fucking kratom. there's a guy in [I]your neighbourhood[/I] who will happily sell you weed

[QUOTE=Generic Monk;52737665]i've peered at the 'kratom community' on and off through the speculum of the internet and i can categorically state that it can absolutely be habit forming, and while you're going to be pretty hard pressed to overdose on it, the thing remains an opioid and on top of absolutely being moderately addictive can potentially adversely interact with medications and other substances you may have ingested. it almost certainly didn't kill this dude but it's always shit like this that brings the "well, actually [lying by omission about their vice of choice]" out of the woodwork i guess what i'm trying to say, kids, is that if you're going to buy drugs, buy something cooler than fucking kratom. there's a guy in [I]your neighbourhood[/I] who will happily sell you weed[/QUOTE] Indeed it is habit forming, but it is not an opiate. It is an opioide antagonist called mitragynine. It bonds to the opiate receptors in your brain in a similar way but the reason its easier for heroin addicts and the like to kick is the fact that it stimulates the same areas in a similar way but with less chance for dependency. Way easier to wean off an addiction with a substitute. Also marijuana does not numb pain anywhere near as effectively as kratom.

[QUOTE=Generic Monk;52737665]i've peered at the 'kratom community' on and off through the speculum of the internet and i can categorically state that it can absolutely be habit forming, and while you're going to be pretty hard pressed to overdose on it, the thing remains an opioid and on top of absolutely being moderately addictive can potentially adversely interact with medications and other substances you may have ingested. it almost certainly didn't kill this dude but it's always shit like this that brings the "well, actually [lying by omission about their vice of choice]" out of the woodwork i guess what i'm trying to say, kids, is that if you're going to buy drugs, buy something cooler than fucking kratom. there's a guy in [I]your neighbourhood[/I] who will happily sell you weed[/QUOTE] I really don't get your point besides trying to be a drug elitist. Kratom has something around 20 different alkaloids in it and the two main alkaloids don't even function in the same way as most other opioids, so it's actually kind of a stretch to call it an opioid. Most people refer to it as "opioid-like" for a reason, it's also a mild stimulant and it can be more stimulating than anything depending on the strain. I like kratom and cannabis, I enjoy both for entirely different reasons because they're entirely different drugs. The only thing they have in common are the fact that they are medicinal plants with a well established safety profile, so again I really don't get what your point is other than just to kind of be a dick, in which case, hooray for you? Anyway, I highly doubt this guy died from kratom alone, it had to have interacted with something else, some kind of depressant like alcohol, other opioids or benzodiazepines. It would be practically impossible to gag down enough tea, straight powder or even extract to fatally overdose. At higher doses kratom tends to work against itself and creates the opposite effect of an enjoyable high and any kratom user would know this whether they found out online or just from thinking more is better and going hogwild then spending the rest of the day on the toilet. Even though it does get nauseating and dysphoric at higher doses it does not present a high enough toxicity to kill someone, and there are many studies to back this up. But lo' and behold, the media sees any event like this as a reason to pander to the hysterical and uninformed. I just hope the voice of reason wins out in the end, as this plant is a life saver for countless people who have been addicted to opioids. I was really fucking myself up with tramadol for a while and found it incredibly hard to quit until I decided to give kratom a try. Now not only do I not use kratom very often, I also have zero interest in tramadol or any other opioids. It's completely removed my cravings, something cannabis could have never done. My grandfather also used the stuff to get off of a serious addiction to oxycodone.

Technically you can overdose on anything. Water and oxygen included (after all, oxygen is one of the most volatile and toxic substances that exists). And "natural" doesn't always mean "better". Nightshade is natural, after all. There was a guy who ended up overdosing on vitamin A after abusing supplements and drinking massive amounts of carrot juice, his liver couldn't handle all of it and failed on him. Sad to hear this news, all the same. Always a shame when things designed to help you end up harming you. Here's hoping people don't try to twist another tragic but likely blameless death into political bullshit too much. It's a sad world we live in where a sad story like this gets used as a soapbox for idiot agendas.

[QUOTE=Ona;52741650]Technically you can overdose on anything. Water and oxygen included (after all, oxygen is one of the most volatile and toxic substances that exists). And "natural" doesn't always mean "better". Nightshade is natural, after all. There was a guy who ended up overdosing on vitamin A after abusing supplements and drinking massive amounts of carrot juice, his liver couldn't handle all of it and failed on him. Sad to hear this news, all the same. Always a shame when things designed to help you end up harming you. Here's hoping people don't try to twist another tragic but likely blameless death into political bullshit too much. It's a sad world we live in where a sad story like this gets used as a soapbox for idiot agendas.[/QUOTE] DEA has had a hard-on for quite a while now trying to slip in legislation that would make Kratom as illegal as heroin without doing any research. Kratom community has been fighting it tooth & nail from a grass-roots platform. I WONDER which pharmaceutical entity would want to make this substance illegal ? :thinking: