Belgium Gaming Commission: Randomized lootboxes are gambling, we want to get them out of Europe - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE]The Google translation is a little sloppy, as usual, but the message is clear enough. "The mixing of money and addiction is gambling," the Gaming Commission declared. Belgium's Minister of Justice Koen Geens also weighed in, saying, "Mixing gambling and gaming, especially at a young age, is dangerous for the mental health of the child." Geens, according to the report, wants to ban in-game purchases outright (correction: if you don't know exactly what you're purchasing), and not just in Belgium: He said the process will take time, "because we have to go to Europe. We will certainly try to ban it." [/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.pcgamer.com/belgium-says-loot-boxes-are-gambling-wants-them-banned-in-europe/?utm_content=buffere78bc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw"]source[/URL] [URL="https://nieuws.vtm.be/vtm-nieuws/binnenland/geens-wil-gokken-games-verbieden"]original article[/URL] is in Dutch. This is pretty big

Thanks to our South neighbours to think better than the ESRB in this situation This is gonna be quite interesting to see

God help them, I hope it works.

Not exactly sure if it is completely a good thing. Yea, lootboxes like in Battlefront 2 are bad but there needs to be careful classification of which ones are really bad and which ones are allowed. On top of that I wonder what this will mean for Games in EU when they get through with it. Will we just get gimped games? Will developers make the effort of making a special version for EU? Or will we just get shafted by less or late releases. I personally don't mind only cosmetic lootboxes which you still get ingame, like in Overwatch. F2P MMOs also often have those in forms that aren't that important to the game. Guess we have to wait and see if they can even get that as far as they want it. Edit: Thats a lot of lootboxes for me, probably for the Overwatch comment. :v: Personally I don't mind Overwatch as the boxes do not really change the gameplay, unlike Battlefront 2 where the game resolves around game changing lootboxes. Maybe to clarify about my actual point, I'm just careful to celebrate due to how they implement a possible ban, a simple ban on "lootboxes" might as well kill games that give random loot out of a box which you can't buy. It should probably just target boxes you can buy in an already full priced (payed for) game, F2P games might need a limit too but should probably not be touched.

[QUOTE=Mitsuma;52913409]I personally don't mind only cosmetic lootboxes which you still get ingame, like in Overwatch. F2P MMOs also often have those in forms that aren't that important to the game.[/QUOTE] Don't think i have to point out that F2P games gotta rely on microtransactions to earn money for the game If there has to be any kind of cosmetic microtransactions in fully priced titles, it should just be a "Pay for what you specifically want" system, instead of having to spend hundreds on the chance not to even get what you want [editline]22nd November 2017[/editline] But yeah they shouldn't cripple F2P games that use these systems, hope they notice

EA will still find a way around it, so I don't expect this to go far

I'll cross post from Spambots: [QUOTE=Sithramir;52913394]Might as well ban TCG's and any form of 'you pay for something random' then as well. The "The mixing of money and addiction is gambling," is a weird reason and I am not sure how they got to that conclusion. If you accept that reason, then a lot of addictions that somehow requires you to pay money (i.e. drugs, alcohol) should be considered gambling.[/QUOTE] Regulation is needed, but an outright ban is not the way to go and will harm a lot of developers that do not implement it in a bad way.

[QUOTE=Sithramir;52913425] Regulation is needed, but an outright ban is not the way to go and will harm a lot of developers that do not implement it in a bad way.[/QUOTE] That is fairly obvious. Even with a simple outright ban on paid lootboxes there'd be virtually unlimited ways to circumvent the law

well this is a surprise. was expecting this to go nowhere again lol.

I'm all for it, fuck all of these randomized gambling shitboxes. They are a cancer in every game they touch. I don't like microtransactions to begin with but I'd rather have a system where I can buy whatever I want outright. (And not with some magical funcoinz either that are purely there to obfuscate the real cost of the thing you buy) [QUOTE=Mitsuma;52913409]Not exactly sure if it is completely a good thing. Yea, lootboxes like in Battlefront 2 are bad but there needs to be careful classification of which ones are really bad and which ones are allowed. On top of that I wonder what this will mean for Games in EU when they get through with it. Will we just get gimped games? Will developers make the effort of making a special version for EU? Or will we just get shafted by less or late releases. [/QUOTE] The loss of the European market would be a far greater blow to them than removing lootboxes. Valve didn't abandon Australia and the EU because they demanded refunds for all purchases, they had to cave since there is a big market at stake. Same goes for scum like EA, if it goes through and lootboxes are classified as gambling they will cave, or risk being barred from selling games to the EU, which is a far greater financial loss than simply removing their precious gambling.

[QUOTE=Sithramir;52913425]I'll cross post from Spambots: Regulation is needed, but an outright ban is not the way to go and will harm a lot of developers that do not implement it in a bad way.[/QUOTE] TCGs and CCGs are pretty different from games though. you know what you're getting into with a game like magic if you want to be a hardcore player the difference is you can generally find and buy a specific card on ebay, not so much with a lootbox. you dont have to buy more card packs if you're looking for a specific card, but you sure as shit have to buy more lootboxes if you want widowmakers bikini

[QUOTE=Nickolas;52913419]Don't think i have to point out that F2P games gotta rely on microtransactions to earn money for the game If there has to be any kind of cosmetic microtransactions in fully priced titles, it should just be a "Pay for what you specifically want" system, instead of having to spend hundreds on the chance not to even get what you want [editline]22nd November 2017[/editline] But yeah they shouldn't cripple F2P games that use these systems, hope they notice[/QUOTE] I have to agree with this. If I'm reading this correctly the ban is on spending real money on something that you don't know the outcome on.

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52913490]I have to agree with this.[/QUOTE] They do state they want to ban microtransactions where you don't know what you are getting, i.e. lootboxes. Regular micotransactions would still be allowed. So I don't see the problem. If the gambling mechanics are that integral to the success of your game, then maybe it isn't a very good game to begin with.

[QUOTE=CommanderPT;52913495]They do state they want to ban microtransactions where you don't know what you are getting, i.e. lootboxes. Regular micotransactions would still be allowed. So I don't see the problem. If the gambling mechanics are that integral to the success of your game, then maybe it isn't a very good game to begin with.[/QUOTE] Hopefully the wording is more precise then that, because some of the games have a guaranteed win in their boxes. [editline]21st November 2017[/editline] IIRC one of the Pokemon games had ingame slot machines removed in Europe because it was gambling and that wasn't even using real money. But I don't know of that was an official rule by PEGI, or something they did on their own.

[QUOTE=postal;52913439]well this is a surprise. was expecting this to go nowhere again lol.[/QUOTE] Its great they came to a positive decision but its still gonna go no where

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52913490]I have to agree with this. If I'm reading this correctly the ban is on spending real money on something that you don't know the outcome on.[/QUOTE] Yeah, you can definitely run a F2P game on a system that doesn't include RNG cash shop items. From what the correction says I'm taking it as they're just banning chance based items, not in game items outright.

[QUOTE=Levelog;52913521]Yeah, you can definitely run a F2P game on a system that doesn't include RNG cash shop items. From what the correction says I'm taking it as they're just banning chance based items, not in game items outright.[/QUOTE] Couldn't publishing the percent chance of getting an item get around that? If this passes on to the rest of Europe, the wording will need to be very precise.

the only time i genuinely love Belgium outside of waffles

[QUOTE=Mitsuma;52913409]Not exactly sure if it is completely a good thing. Yea, lootboxes like in Battlefront 2 are bad but there needs to be careful classification of which ones are really bad and which ones are allowed. On top of that I wonder what this will mean for Games in EU when they get through with it. Will we just get gimped games? Will developers make the effort of making a special version for EU? Or will we just get shafted by less or late releases. I personally don't mind only cosmetic lootboxes which you still get ingame, like in Overwatch. F2P MMOs also often have those in forms that aren't that important to the game. Guess we have to wait and see if they can even get that as far as they want it.[/QUOTE] I agree, there needs to be nuance to the whole thing. What people fail to acknowledge about loot boxes is that they're a price model for F2P games and a way of maintaining profitability whilst providing free content in the long term. Overwatch released well over a year ago but they're releasing free characters, maps and modes. They can do this because the game is still making money whilst developing content and releasing with to people who own the game already, considering development costs that's pretty interesting. Meanwhile, the lootboxes that let this cool system happen don't effect the design of the game at all and are completely optional and don't improve the mechanical experience at all. Lootboxes can be really shitty, but honestly they can also improve an experience or make a certain experience possible. So we need to approach this with nuance which I've seen the internet prove they're not doing, and honestly don't trust any lawmakers to do so.

Huge progress. Really hope this leads to a national ban on loot boxes in gaming. I can't even imagine how a game as old as TF2 will have to deal with this change. [editline]21st November 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Rossy167;52913566]I agree, there needs to be nuance to the whole thing. What people fail to acknowledge about loot boxes is that they're a price model for F2P games and a way of maintaining profitability whilst providing free content in the long term. Overwatch released well over a year ago but they're releasing free characters, maps and modes. They can do this because the game is still making money whilst developing content and releasing with to people who own the game already, considering development costs that's pretty interesting. Meanwhile, the lootboxes that let this cool system happen don't effect the design of the game at all and are completely optional and don't improve the mechanical experience at all. Lootboxes can be really shitty, but honestly they can also improve an experience or make a certain experience possible. So we need to approach this with nuance which I've seen the internet prove they're not doing, and honestly don't trust any lawmakers to do so.[/QUOTE] Let people pay for skins they want instead of putting in a slot machine and hoping for the best? You can get crates for free by playing yeah but Blizzard employs multiple tactics to tempt players to buy in the end. 1. Limited Time Events lasting a short couple of weeks 2. Raising prices on new skins and charging a premium with in-game currency 3. Making new skins completely unavailable outside the time-frame of the event. 4. Release a ton new legendary skins at 3000 a pop making it incredibly difficult to acquire them all. It still encourages gambling. One system is not better than another - it all encourages gambling.

Meanwhile Hawaii apparently had a press conference about this? [video=youtube;_akwfRuL4os]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_akwfRuL4os[/video] Fuck me sideways I thought mainstream news covering the backlash was the biggest this was going to get.

there is nothing wrong with cosmetic-only lootboxes

[QUOTE=Davoc;52913664]there is nothing wrong with cosmetic-only lootboxes[/QUOTE] In principle, yes. Sure, they're not as bad as the one's in BF2 right now, because they don't give you any advantages in gameplay, but many people put a lot of value into the skins they get, and will go to extreme lengths to unlock them. So if you're a kid and want a legendary skin for Hanzo in Overwatch, you might end up spending hundreds of dollars on lootboxes before you finally get it.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2iEes9bzbg[/media]

[QUOTE=Davoc;52913664]there is nothing wrong with cosmetic-only lootboxes[/QUOTE] there's nothing wrong with cosmetic-only lootboxes [b]if there is no way to buy said lootboxes with real money[/b] if you want to spend real money you should be able to buy what you want outright. i don't mind lootboxes as drops for playing the game so long as there is no way and no need to spend money on them

Yes, pretty please. EU, ban lootboxes.

I'm actually very proud of my country for once. Go, you bastards. Go and ruin their greed.

Man, if the EU does declare loot boxes as gambling it's gonna be interesting to see how they're going to worm their way around it.

It would have been a great win if they also crack down on Blizzards, Activisions and Valve practices.

[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52913743]It would have been a great win if they also crack down on Blizzards, Activisions and Valve practices.[/QUOTE] This isn't something specifically aimed at EA. They were just the catalyst. The ban would include [I]all[/I] kinds of lootboxes, regardless of developer and publisher. [editline]22nd November 2017[/editline] Although arguably, EA will be hurt the most, since they've included lootboxes in every one of their most recent games ('least as far as I know).