Catherine Deneuve, 99 French women, denounces #Metoo campaign for 'puritanism' - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE]PARIS (Reuters) - Actress Catherine Deneuve and 99 other French women on Tuesday denounced a backlash against men following the Harvey Weinstein scandal, saying the #Metoo campaign against sexual harassment amounted to “puritanism” and was fueled by a “hatred of men.” In the aftermath of accusations against the U.S. movie producer, millions of women took to social media to share their stories of being sexually harassed or assaulted, using the #Metoo hastag worldwide or #SquealOnYourPig (#balancetonporc)in France. “This urge to send men to the slaughterhouse, instead of helping women be more autonomous, helps the enemies of sexual freedom,” the 100 women, including 74-year old Deneuve, one of France’s most famous screen stars, said in a column published by Le Monde daily. The man’s right to “pester” a woman was an essential part of sexual freedom, they said, describing the campaign as “puritanism”. Marlene Schiappa, the French minister tasked with cracking down on violence against women, said in a comment to Reuters that the Weinstein scandal forced a rethink of attitudes toward sexual harassment in France, a country that cherishes its self-image as the land of seduction and romance.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://www.reuters.com/article/us-people-harvey-weinstein-france-deneuv/frances-deneuve-denounces-metoo-campaign-for-puritanism-idUSKBN1EY24D?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5a55b1be04d30149039100cf&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook"]Reuters.[/URL]

I get what she's saying and I'm all for "sexual freedom", but [quote]The man’s right to “pester” a woman was an essential part of sexual freedom [...][/quote] really doesn't sit right with me.

[QUOTE=Kazumi;53040625]I get what she's saying and I'm all for "sexual freedom", but [QUOTE]The man’s right to “pester” a woman was an essential part of sexual freedom [...][/QUOTE] really doesn't sit right with me.[/QUOTE] It seems like a strange choice of word. Might it just be a translation issue?

[QUOTE=Kazumi;53040625]I get what she's saying and I'm all for "sexual freedom", but really doesn't sit right with me.[/QUOTE] Same here - that's like saying that the enhanced freedom of expression gives people the "right" to bully people too. I mean, the etymology of the word itself indicates that it's undesirable; why the hell should it be acceptable under the broader umbrella of freedom of expression? Women shouldn't have to put up with that shit (being treated like a fleshy fuck toy) in a professional environment by men or even other women.

[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;53040632]It seems like a strange choice of word. Might it just be a translation issue?[/QUOTE] Might be mistranslation or a different contextual meaning in French.

[QUOTE=snookypookums;53040633]Same here - that's like saying that the enhanced freedom of expression gives people the "right" to bully people too. I mean, the etymology of the word itself indicates that it's undesirable; why the hell should it be acceptable under the broader umbrella of freedom of expression? Women shouldn't have to put up with that shit (being treated like a fleshy fuck toy) in a professional environment by men or even other women.[/QUOTE] I think what they're worried about is demonising men as a whole and an overreacting backlash against all forms of sexual advances from men.

[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;53040632]It seems like a strange choice of word. Might it just be a translation issue?[/QUOTE] Looking at the rest of the article, it doesn't like it.

Her point is right, if men are treated as the enemy to women, at some point their fighting men will accomplish exactly this, men will start hating women for being thrown in the lot with the bad apples I always wonder why these movements always make an enemy out of someone, when they could go for an approach that is constructive for all and doesn't discriminate anybody. I guess it doesn't get any attention when you don't signal virtue and actually want to do good

I'm leaning towards a translation mixup. Perhaps she means 'annoy'? Trying to say that this whole thing has caused some women to lash out at men for simply bothering them at all?

[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;53040707]Her point is right, if men are treated as the enemy to women, at some point their fighting men will accomplish exactly this, men will start hating women for being thrown in the lot with the bad apples I always wonder why these movements always make an enemy out of someone, when they could go for an approach that is constructive for all and doesn't discriminate anybody. I guess it doesn't get any attention when you don't signal virtue and actually want to do good[/QUOTE] You what? The only people this discriminates against is men (and women) who go around playing grab ass and using their position of power to force sexual interactions against women. Men aren't the enemy of this movement, assholes are.

[QUOTE=Propane Addict;53040722]You what? The only people this discriminates against is men (and women) who go around playing grab ass and using their position of power to force sexual interactions against women. Men aren't the enemy of this movement, assholes are.[/QUOTE] Tell that to the women who think all men are the same

[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;53040632]It seems like a strange choice of word. Might it just be a translation issue?[/QUOTE] The original statement says something along the lines of "bother", "offend".

[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;53040733]Tell that to the women who think all men are the same[/QUOTE] So what does this movement have to do with them? Women with that mindset have been around for a long time and will always be around. If some men have a problem distinguishing between what this movement represents and what some extremists rant about on twitter, I don't know what to tell you, bud.

Just as there probably isn't a woman alive who has never been assaulted or harassed, so there can't be many men who haven't accidentally been inappropriate, perhaps after a few beers or just through ignorance and/or inexperience. I'd hate to be a man, it must be like walking on eggshells the whole time. I agree with Propane Addict, the people who deserve to be demonised are the proper predators like Weinstein, the nasty conscience-free exploiters of this world. Usually their behaviour sexually is just an extension of their narcissistic personality disorder or similar mental aberration and they will be ruthless in their exploitation of all other people, not just those they can prey on sexually.

I think the first phrase of the original french article is better worded : [quote]Le viol est un crime. Mais la drague insistante ou maladroite n’est pas un délit, ni la galanterie une agression machiste.[/quote] "Rape is a crime. But flirting too much or awkwardly isn't an offense, nor is gallantry a macho aggression."

[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;53040733]Tell that to the women who think all men are the same[/QUOTE] huh? to believe that's a serious problem within women is just a naive and sheltered view. idiots are idiots.

[QUOTE=Propane Addict;53040767]So what does this movement have to do with them? Women with that mindset have been around for a long time and will always be around. If some men have a problem distinguishing between what this movement represents and what some extremists rant about on twitter, I don't know what to tell you, bud.[/QUOTE] This, women like that absolutely exist but I'm tired of people basing their views on an entire movement on them. [editline]10th January 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=verynicelady;53040774]Just as there probably isn't a woman alive who has never been assaulted or harassed, so there can't be many men who haven't accidentally been inappropriate, perhaps after a few beers or just through ignorance and/or inexperience. I'd hate to be a man, it must be like walking on eggshells the whole time. I agree with Propane Addict, the people who deserve to be demonised are the proper predators like Weinstein, the nasty conscience-free exploiters of this world. Usually their behaviour sexually is just an extension of their narcissistic personality disorder or similar mental aberration and they will be ruthless in their exploitation of all other people, not just those they can prey on sexually.[/QUOTE] It's hard to be a man and not feel antagonized or ashamed in the climate, but I think to a large degree we just have to suck it up and accept that we aren't perfect and that if things are to change we will have to deal with a bit if discomfort. After all women already have to deal with the discomfort of being victims in this and they do indeed for the most part just deal with it.

[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;53040792]I think the first phrase of the original french article is better worded : "Rape is a crime. But flirting too much or awkwardly isn't an offense, nor is gallantry a macho aggression."[/QUOTE] This so much. I don't understand what these women are expecting the social dynamics to boil down to. If men didn't attempt to flirt and woo women, engaging in courting rituals to win their attention and affection, which ultimately are just a part of being a (hu)man, humanity as a race wouldn't really get too far. People have always looked for partners and men have always traditionally been the ones to initiate advances, and are expected to do so even today which is a whole other can of worms - ladies REALLY should up their half of the game, if playing the equality game is their goal. I have not met a single man in my entire life who thinks rape is acceptable. Dirty jokes have been made here and there, sure, but I am 100% certain all of these dudes I know would apprehend another man ACTUALLY trying to rape someone/drug their drinks. And we have. These and surely most other men in the west would not just stand by and say "nice, she was definitely asking for it" as a woman is being raped. When presented with a [I]real[/I] case of attack on someone's privacy or life, the would-be rapist would get dragged out and fucked up before the police are even called. Lewd jokes, flirting, gallantry and often cringeworthy displays of chivalry are not sexual harassment, toxic masculinity or rape culture. [I]Actual rape[/I] and [I]actual harassment[/I] are. And make no mistake, these are absolutely not limited to men. Weinstein can burn a slow death for all I care. All men are not Weinstein however.

[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;53040733]Tell that to the women who think all men are the same[/QUOTE] Sure, let me get my list of women who think this:

[QUOTE=Rubs10;53041730]Sure, let me get my list of women who think this:[/QUOTE] Yeah I'm confused about that too. Like, the only women I know that thinks men are all the same a comedians and people making a joke out of it

[QUOTE=gokiyono;53041766]Yeah I'm confused about that too. Like, the only women I know that thinks men are all the same a comedians and people making a joke out of it[/QUOTE] B-but 4chan told me that all feminists hate all men, they wouldn't lie would they?

[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;53040707]Her point is right, if men are treated as the enemy to women, at some point their fighting men will accomplish exactly this, men will start hating women for being thrown in the lot with the bad apples[/QUOTE] This is the exact same argument alt-righters used as for why they joined the nazis and it's just as bullshit now as it is then. If being called X makes you join X, you were probably already an X.

Okay, so to give a bit of context about this, because I feel there's some stuff that was lost in translation. Catherine Deneuve is an old school feminist with a deeply liberal mindset. She's been an activist for various causes since the 1970s, the first of which was the legalization of abortion in France which she supported by publicly announcing she had undergone an abortion in a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_of_the_343]rather colorfully named petition[/url]. Among her frequent defense of various human rights, she's very critical of traditions and an extremely strong supporter of sexual freedom which as demonstrated above she's fought for over a very long time. She's also known for getting the point across with some often brutal or extreme early statements which are just as often misunderstood or torn out of context. While she was supporting same sex marriage she still criticized the fact people still cling into onto marriage as a tradition as she considers civil unions to be vastly superior, and people immediately assumed she didn't want gay couples to marry as a result. Her point is simply that modern feminism is turning toxic, she's repeatedly complained about how the entire movement has become weaponized and has adopted a fierce mob mentality which to her is neither healthy nor welcome. It goes directly against what she's been fighting for the past 40 years. She's notably been extremely critical of social media especially in the Polanski case. The translation isn't too good but it's mostly a case of how she has a very firm and brutal way of expressing herself in many ways. She's willing to get provocative to get the point across which makes sense seeing where she's coming from.