US Army kills XM25 - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote]U.S. Army's senior leadership has ended an agreement with Orbital ATK Inc. that spanned two decades over the XM25 25mm airburst weapon, a move that could put the troubled weapon system's future into jeopardy. The service's XM25 Counter-Defilade Target Engagement System is a semi-automatic, shoulder-fired weapon that fires 25mm high-explosive, air-bursting ammunition. Nicknamed "the Punisher" and designed by Orbital ATK and Heckler & Koch, XM25 has long been the Army's attempt to field a "leap-ahead" weapon designed to give infantry units a decisive edge against enemies hiding behind cover. The XM25 has stirred excitement in the infantry community, but the complex system has also been plagued by program delays that have made it a target of Pentagon auditors. The latest trouble for the program came when the Army canceled its contract with Orbital ATK just one month ago. "On April 5, 2017, the Army terminated the XM25 Counter Defilade Target Engagement (CDTE) contract with the prime contractor (Orbital-ATK) after it [b]failed to deliver the 20 weapons as specified by the terms of the contract[/b]," an Army spokesman told Military.com in a May 5 email.[/quote] [url]http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/05/06/army-kills-contract-for-shoulder-fired-airburst-weapon.html[/url] Related: [quote]In a new twist to the ongoing story of the US Army’s XM25 CTDE “Punisher” airburst infantry grenade launcher, Orbital ATK, a technology partner on the program, [B]has sued fellow partner Heckler & Koch for failure to deliver 20 units of the new weapon[/B]. Orbital ATK is seeking more than $27 million in damages from H&K, and transfer of some intellectual property to another contractor. Orbital ATK says that Heckler & Koch’s failure to deliver the weapons has jeopardized its contract with the US government, raising the chance of program termination, and at least causing a substantial delay.[/quote] [url]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/09/breaking-orbital-atk-sues-heckler-koch-xm25-punisher-airburst-weapon/[/url] I think if I was an Orbital ATK shareholder I'd be pretty pissed at H&K right now. What's the bet they sue H&K for the full price of the XM25 contract?

RIP XM25 may you fire airburst rounds in Heaven.

How do I kill scrubs who sit behind cover with AN-94's now?

:( All the cool looking guns go to gun heaven, probably because they're cool looking and not so reliable. rip xm8 and xm25

[QUOTE=DogGunn;52196948]:( All the cool looking guns go to gun heaven, probably because they're cool looking and not so reliable. rip xm8 and xm25[/QUOTE] rip OICW :(

[QUOTE=DogGunn;52196948]:( All the cool looking guns go to gun heaven, probably because they're cool looking and not so reliable. rip xm8 and xm25[/QUOTE] Dont forget the oicw Dammit

[QUOTE=Puvleek;52197167]rip OICW :([/QUOTE] It's found new life with the Chinese marines, don't worry. [t]https://my.mixtape.moe/ujijwp.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=DogGunn;52196948]:( rip xm8[/QUOTE] It's not gone, just found a home at a far away place. [T]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/70/e1/40/70e140dca59bfc0285c49a74573cca79.jpg[/T]

[QUOTE=richard9311;52197417]It's found new life with the Chinese marines, don't worry. [t]https://my.mixtape.moe/ujijwp.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] it does beg the question though with US soldiers essentially being in constant combat vs the chinese who outside of some UN peacekeeping in somalia have not fought in a war zone, does the system actually work for combat because we have had prototypes out in iraq and afghanistan over the years.

The OICW concept is stupid and was dropped by many nations for a reason. It weights a fuck load and is less modular than a conventional grenade launcher/rifle combo. They should just stick the fancy airburst fuze on a conventional 40mm and use that instead of a fancy and unnecessary semi-auto grenade launcher fixed to a rifle.

[QUOTE=download;52197487]The OICW concept is stupid and was dropped by many nations for a reason. It weights a fuck load and is less modular than a conventional grenade launcher/rifle combo. They should just stick the fancy airburst fuze on a conventional 40mm and use that instead of a fancy and unnecessary semi-auto grenade launcher fixed to a rifle.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure that gonna happen eventually. It's been the usual case of the weapons manufacturing industry trying to sell something horribly over-engineered and complex because they can put a massive margin onto it in comparison to the conventional stuff and gonna slowly begrudgingly "invent" a way to do it in a much cheaper, logistically efficient and economical way which won't really perform worse at all in practice.

[QUOTE=download;52197487]The OICW concept is stupid and was dropped by many nations for a reason. It weights a fuck load and is less modular than a conventional grenade launcher/rifle combo. They should just stick the fancy airburst fuze on a conventional 40mm and use that instead of a fancy and unnecessary semi-auto grenade launcher fixed to a rifle.[/QUOTE] Personally I think if they replaced the 20mm grenade launcher barrel for a .50 bmg barrel it might be perfect for infantry who need heavy caliber fire "in the moment" so to speak. Maybe also instead of making the .50 semi-auto, make it into a bolt action. That way you could always have the power of an anti-material rifle in any of a soldier's rifles without having to devote a single person to a dedicated .50, and the bolt action would just be to keep the .50 fire controlled more so than it would be if it were a semi-auto. Also, though I could be wrong, aren't bolt action systems much more simple than semi-auto systems when it comes to parts and maintenance? Edit: Oh shit, it already is a bolt action, looking at different pictures I just noticed.

So what you're saying is Everything about Ghost Recon 2 is now bullshit?

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;52197638]Personally I think if they replaced the 20mm grenade launcher barrel for a .50 bmg barrel it might be perfect for infantry who need heavy caliber fire "in the moment" so to speak. Maybe also instead of making the .50 semi-auto, make it into a bolt action. That way you could always have the power of an anti-material rifle in any of a soldier's rifles without having to devote a single person to a dedicated .50, and the bolt action would just be to keep the .50 fire controlled more so than it would be if it were a semi-auto. Also, though I could be wrong, aren't bolt action systems much more simple than semi-auto systems when it comes to parts and maintenance? Edit: Oh shit, it already is a bolt action, looking at different pictures I just noticed.[/QUOTE] .50BMG doesn't really have the mechanical capacity for packing both smart as well as a worthwhile payload that could kill somebody with an over-cover explosion reliably. The "smart" bit would be probably ever more expensive because you would need to miniaturise further and that limits the technological options. Furthermore, if the barrel was to be able to handle full pressure BMG, it would have to be considerably stronger, the rest of the weapon would have to be more or less designed around it, etc. To me it would make more sense to go about it from the exact other direction, make a big fuckoff semi auto 20mm rifle with option of both high velocity AP ammo as well as low pressure "smart ammo" and hand them out one per squad or two alongside a close quarters sidearm to designated marksmen who also happen to be able to bench a cow. Heck, if you go with a sabot the AP round can still be relatively low recoil and easy on the barrel as well, and you could adapt it to using existing 20mm VADS ammo including DU rounds :v:

[QUOTE=millan;52197792].50BMG doesn't really have the mechanical capacity for packing both smart as well as a worthwhile payload that could kill somebody with an over-cover explosion reliably. The "smart" bit would be probably ever more expensive because you would need to miniaturise further and that limits the technological options. Furthermore, if the barrel was to be able to handle full pressure BMG, it would have to be considerably stronger, the rest of the weapon would have to be more or less designed around it, etc. To me it would make more sense to go about it from the exact other direction, make a big fuckoff semi auto 20mm rifle with option of both high velocity AP ammo as well as low pressure "smart ammo" and hand them out one per squad or two alongside a close quarters sidearm to designated marksmen who also happen to be able to bench a cow. Heck, if you go with a sabot the AP round can still be relatively low recoil and easy on the barrel as well, and you could adapt it to using existing 20mm VADS ammo including DU rounds :v:[/QUOTE] I should have clarified, with the .50 barrel there would be no need for a firing computer because there would be no airbursting ammo. There are still Armor penetrating and incendiary rounds for the .50 that would work well for most situations. My thought was it's to be used in place of requesting anti-material fire support, so soldiers could knock out heavier targets like thin armored troop transports and helicopters. Plus the power the .50 has against targets in cover is still impressive.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;52197995]I should have clarified, with the .50 barrel there would be no need for a firing computer because there would be no airbursting ammo. There are still Armor penetrating and incendiary rounds for the .50 that would work well for most situations. My thought was it's to be used in place of requesting anti-material fire support, so soldiers could knock out heavier targets like thin armored troop transports and helicopters. Plus the power the .50 has against targets in cover is still impressive.[/QUOTE] The purpose of the air-burst grenade is not anti-armor, it's anti-infantry behind cover. Against armor you really need a direct hit to do much anyway.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;52197995]I should have clarified, with the .50 barrel there would be no need for a firing computer because there would be no airbursting ammo. There are still Armor penetrating and incendiary rounds for the .50 that would work well for most situations. My thought was it's to be used in place of requesting anti-material fire support, so soldiers could knock out heavier targets like thin armored troop transports and helicopters. Plus the power the .50 has against targets in cover is still impressive.[/QUOTE] Barrett had already made a 25mm/50 bmg rifle that would fill that niche. It just didn't have the capability of airburst ammo. That, and since there's about 20 other things in the US inventory used for light vehicle and barrier penetration there's really no need for it. It is kind of a shame to see it go. The XM25 had capabilities beyond your standard 40mm, with greater range and more flexibility in use. Still, considering how much money was squandered just to get to this point made it an incredibly expensive situation dependant weapon.

For those that don't know, the XM28 was the result of a split between the XM29 OICW. The military deemed the combined rifle was too heavy, and had it split into two weapons: the XM8 assault rifle and XM25 programmable grenade launcher. The army then cancelled the XM8 for failing to significantly improve over the M4A1, making it not worth replacing all of their M4's. But the XM8 is not dead, it is in service in Malaysia and Private Companies. The problem with removing the rifle was that the XM28 on it's own wasn't great because now you had a 20mm GL that's bulkier and heavier than a 40mm GL. Instead of an M4/M203 or M16/M203, a Grenadier would only have an XM25 and no rifle, severely limiting his effectiveness. [QUOTE=richard9311;52197417]It's found new life with the Chinese marines, don't worry. [t]https://my.mixtape.moe/ujijwp.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] South Korea also has the K11 Rifle, based off the XM29. [t]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/54/85/e8/5485e84f9c189064a658c1c6b86e2567.jpg[/t]

Shame. It was damn good at what it did. Some people in my former division used it in combat, and swear by it.

Of course HK would be stingy enough about exporting weapons to the USA, that not even their target demographic (the military) could find any of them. Gotta live up to the reputation their shit being more rare than unicorn farts I guess? :v:

[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;52202675]Of course HK would be stingy enough about exporting weapons to the USA, that not even their target demographic (the military) could find any of them. Gotta live up to the reputation their shit being more rare than unicorn farts I guess?[/QUOTE] pretty sure it's cuz the us has a ban on a lot of their products i'd be stingy too lol

[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;52202880]pretty sure it's cuz the us has a ban on a lot of their products i'd be stingy too lol[/QUOTE] The US doesn't have a ban on any of their products specifically, HK just hasn't historically given semi-automatic versions of their rifles available to civilians (that, and they along with everyone else can't import "assault weapons" for civilian sales). HK is actually building a plant here in the US for domestic production, which is one of the prerequisites for making arms for the US government in regards to general issue.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52202902]The US doesn't have a ban on any of their products specifically, HK just hasn't historically given semi-automatic versions of their rifles available to civilians (that, and they along with everyone else can't import "assault weapons" for civilian sales). HK is actually building a plant here in the US for domestic production, which is one of the prerequisites for making arms for the US government in regards to general issue.[/QUOTE] GH Bush banned foreign imports and the ban had no sunset, funny how the NRA hasn't done anything about that.

[QUOTE=Sableye;52203798]GH Bush banned foreign imports and the ban had no sunset, funny how the NRA hasn't done anything about that.[/QUOTE] Probably because it keeps foreign companies from undercutting domestic manufacturers.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52202902]The US doesn't have a ban on any of their products specifically, HK just hasn't historically given semi-automatic versions of their rifles available to civilians (that, and they along with everyone else can't import "assault weapons" for civilian sales). HK is actually building a plant here in the US for domestic production, which is one of the prerequisites for making arms for the US government in regards to general issue.[/QUOTE] I thought they were selling a civilian version of the G36 in Europe and had plans to bring it to the US before HK USA almost went bankrupt [video=youtube;JWBMaCHerVY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWBMaCHerVY[/video]

this is interesting, as XM25 was praised as great firepower improvement to infantry squad not 'limiting' as some claim here cause XM25 grenades are actually capable take targets outside direct line of sight behind HARD cover !