Tesla driver in fatal 'Autopilot' crash got numerous warnings: U.S. government - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote]A man killed in a crash last year while using the semi-autonomous driving system on his Tesla Model S sedan kept his hands off the wheel for extended periods of time despite repeated automated warnings not to do so, a U.S. government report said on Monday The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) released 500 pages of findings into the May 2016 death of Joshua Brown, a former Navy SEAL, near Williston, Florida. Brown's Model S collided with a truck while it was engaged in the "Autopilot" mode and he was killed. A Tesla Inc spokeswoman Keely Sulprizio declined to comment on the NTSB report. In 2016, the company said Autopilot "does not allow the driver to abdicate responsibility," however. Brown family lawyer Jack Landskroner said in an email the NTSB's findings should put to rest previous media reports that Brown was watching a movie at the time of the crash, which he called "unequivocally false." He added that the family has not taken any legal action against Tesla and was still reviewing the NTSB report. The incident raised questions about the safety of systems that can perform driving tasks for long stretches with little or no human intervention, but which cannot completely replace human drivers. During a 37-minute period of the trip when Brown was required to have his hands on the wheel, he apparently did so for just 25 seconds, the NTSB said in the report. The report said the Autopilot mode remained on during most of his trip and that it gave him to a visual warning seven separate times that said "Hands Required Not Detected." In six cases, the system then sounded a chime before it returned to "Hands Required Detected" for one to three second periods. Tesla in September unveiled improvements in Autopilot, adding new limits on hands-off driving and other features that its chief executive officer said likely would have prevented the crash death. The updated system temporarily prevents drivers from using the system if they do not respond to audible warnings to take back control of the car. The NTSB makes safety recommendations but cannot order recalls. In January, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said it had found no evidence of defects in the aftermath of Brown's death.[/quote] [url]http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-crash-idUSKBN19A2XC[/url] Kind of crazy how specific they can now get with data, but happy it helps highlight what really happened. Also sorry Morgen. :v:

What a lazy dumbass. Kinda reinforces one of my main points against self driving cars, too. We are already seeing people drop all responsibility for these things and we still dont have true self driving cars yet.

More proof that if you try to make something idiot proof, there will just come an even bigger idiot.

[QUOTE=TestECull;52381405]What a lazy dumbass. Kinda reinforces one of my main points against self driving cars, too. We are already seeing people drop all responsibility for these things and we still dont have true self driving cars yet.[/QUOTE] People already drop all responsibility in conventional cars, so shouldn't you also be against cars in general?

[QUOTE=gokiyono;52381422]People already drop all responsibility in conventional cars, so shouldn't you also be against cars in general?[/QUOTE] I'm in favor of society not treating drivng like a god given right. Strict licensing would drop crash rates far more than a bandaid solution by carmakers and it would have a longer lasting impact. It would work faster. It would work regardless of income bracket, regardless of vehicle driven. It is simply a better solution. Treat normal licenses like CDLs, make it far easier to lose them(texting while driving should carry a mandatory six month suspension and impounding of car for said duration, for example), and society cab drop self driving cars from the roadmap. I would rather ride passenger in a '34 Ford A driven by a good driver than a Tesla driven by a lazy, irresponsible fuckwit that repeatedly ignores warnings about autopilot exceeding its capabilities. Handing out licenses like candy and treating holding one as a right instead of a privelege is why we are even having this discussion.

Auto driving at this stage shouldn't replace manual driving fully simply because there will always be an instance albeit rare where you will need to take control of the wheel for an emergency

[QUOTE=TestECull;52381502]I'm in favor of society not treating drivng like a god given right. Strict licensing would drop crash rates far more than a bandaid solution by carmakers and it would have a longer lasting impact. It would work faster. It would work regardless of income bracket, regardless of vehicle driven. It is simply a better solution. Treat normal licenses like CDLs, make it far easier to lose them(texting while driving should carry a mandatory six month suspension and impounding of car for said duration, for example), and society cab drop self driving cars from the roadmap. I would rather ride passenger in a '34 Ford A driven by a good driver than a Tesla driven by a lazy, irresponsible fuckwit that repeatedly ignores warnings about autopilot exceeding its capabilities. Handing out licenses like candy and treating holding one as a right instead of a privelege is why we are even having this discussion.[/QUOTE] The problem with that is that, in so doing, you severely restrict mobility across vulnerable portions of the population -- the rural poor among them. The US doesn't have a good public transit system, and many portions of the country are too large and too remote to make that a possibility. Lack of access to automobiles is already a significant contribution to the continuation of poverty among the working poor, and the lack of available jobs to the unemployed poor. Our country is built around the automobile, because automobile manufacturers killed our public transit-based city planning back in the 20s. That's why licensing is so lenient, it highlights the flaws in our society if fewer people can drive. I personally agree on introducing harsher punishments for distraction and diversion behind the wheel, but once people started losing their jobs after missing a few days, there'd be riots in the streets.

[QUOTE=TestECull;52381502]I'm in favor of society not treating drivng like a god given right. Strict licensing would drop crash rates far more than a bandaid solution by carmakers and it would have a longer lasting impact. It would work faster. It would work regardless of income bracket, regardless of vehicle driven. It is simply a better solution. Treat normal licenses like CDLs, make it far easier to lose them(texting while driving should carry a mandatory six month suspension and impounding of car for said duration, for example), and society cab drop self driving cars from the roadmap. I would rather ride passenger in a '34 Ford A driven by a good driver than a Tesla driven by a lazy, irresponsible fuckwit that repeatedly ignores warnings about autopilot exceeding its capabilities. Handing out licenses like candy and treating holding one as a right instead of a privelege is why we are even having this discussion.[/QUOTE] I'm all for treating driving as a privilege, but only in principle, because society, at least in many parts of America, are built around the idea that everyone can drive. Where I live, if you don't drive, you either have to rely on the really janky, unreliable public transportation, or pay up the ass for taxis. If you live alone where I live, and cannot drive, you're [I]fucked.[/I] We want driving to be a special privilege, but build society as if its an expected trait.

I thought DL tests in the U.S were already thorough? Here in Panama, all I had to do was a written test and 3 parking scenarios which were an absolute cake to pass. No driving around a suburb or highway over here.

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;52381608]I thought DL tests in the U.S were already thorough? Here in Panama, all I had to do was a written test and 3 parking scenarios which were an absolute cake to pass. No driving around a suburb or highway over here.[/QUOTE] It's basically the same here.

Smarter cars makes dumber drivers. Dumb drivers cause crashes. Its simple stuff really.

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;52381608]I thought DL tests in the U.S were already thorough? .[/QUOTE] That's the thing, mine was thorough, everyone I know has taken a thorough exam, but the drivers where I live (SF bay) are fucking retards to the highest degree. One of my friends has been taking the written test since he was 18 and he just passed it at the age of 25 and he has not driven the car he has because he "has no motivation" despite him having to walk miles and miles to his job daily and has been mugged in our super low crime city. I REGULARLY see people bring their families out to someplace, try to park in large parking spots with no cars around them so they have no pressure, they fuck up trying to park for 15 minutes then they just leave. Sorry kids, looks like we're not getting food, mommy is a fucking retard.

[QUOTE=TestECull;52381405]What a lazy dumbass. Kinda reinforces one of my main points against self driving cars, too. We are already seeing people drop all responsibility for these things and we still dont have true self driving cars yet.[/QUOTE] The nhtsa said AP reduced crash rates by 40% so it seems like AP is still beneficial overall even if a few idiots abuse it. Though Tesla made it nag much more, and improved the system considerably. AP isn't self driving though, eventually Tesla will implement a full self driving mode.

During a 37-minute period of the trip when Brown was required to have his hands on the wheel, he apparently did so for just 25 seconds, the NTSB said in the report. Wow dude lol. The real question is: would him being alert mean he would have been able to avoid the crash anyway? Because if not then what he was doing is a bit irrelevant [editline]20th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=TestECull;52381405]What a lazy dumbass. Kinda reinforces one of my main points against self driving cars, too. We are already seeing people drop all responsibility for these things and we still dont have true self driving cars yet.[/QUOTE] People can't even handle not calling them something they aren't (self driving)

[QUOTE=Kylel999;52381782]During a 37-minute period of the trip when Brown was required to have his hands on the wheel, he apparently did so for just 25 seconds, the NTSB said in the report. Wow dude lol. The real question is: would him being alert mean he would have been able to avoid the crash anyway? Because if not then what he was doing is a bit irrelevant [/QUOTE] From the BBC article in the other thread [quote]In its report, the Safety Board said the truck should have been visible to Mr Brown for [B]at least seven seconds[/B] before impact but that he took "no braking, steering or other actions to avoid the collision".[/quote] I'm guessing he was just texting on his phone or something, because he wasn't paying even the slightest bit of attention to the road

[QUOTE=gokiyono;52381422]People already drop all responsibility in conventional cars, so shouldn't you also be against cars in general?[/QUOTE] It's different. They probably think the car is fool proof or something, and let down all guard carelessly. In a regular car, doing that is straight up asking for trouble. Well, it is in both cars, but you get the point. [editline]20th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Morgen;52381743]The nhtsa said AP reduced crash rates by 40% so it seems like AP is still beneficial overall even if a few idiots abuse it. Though Tesla made it nag much more, and improved the system considerably. AP isn't self driving though, eventually Tesla will implement a full self driving mode.[/QUOTE] containing warnings still right? I wouldn't trust it 100%, as you probably shouldn't trust any driver 100%

[QUOTE=TestECull;52381405]What a lazy dumbass. Kinda reinforces one of my main points against self driving cars, too. We are already seeing people drop all responsibility for these things and we still dont have true self driving cars yet.[/QUOTE] On my way home from a 9000 mile roadtrip in my Model X, AP has been doing the driving for the majority of the trip yet I haven't died yet. Checkmate atheists.

[QUOTE=Supacasey;52381843]On my way home from a 9000 mile roadtrip in my Model X, AP has been doing the driving for the majority of the trip yet I haven't died yet. Checkmate atheists.[/QUOTE] But you stay alert and pay attention to the road and listen to the warnings from the car, right?

[QUOTE=Supacasey;52381843]On my way home from a 9000 mile roadtrip in my Model X, AP has been doing the driving for the majority of the trip yet I haven't died yet. Checkmate atheists.[/QUOTE] Wish I had that much money to spend luxuriously

Strict licensing should be more of a priority in suburban/urban regions like New York, New Jersey, California, etc. I'm not worried about drivers in rural areas.

[QUOTE=TestECull;52381502]I'm in favor of society not treating drivng like a god given right. Strict licensing would drop crash rates far more than a bandaid solution by carmakers and it would have a longer lasting impact. It would work faster. It would work regardless of income bracket, regardless of vehicle driven. It is simply a better solution. Treat normal licenses like CDLs, make it far easier to lose them(texting while driving should carry a mandatory six month suspension and impounding of car for said duration, for example), and society cab drop self driving cars from the roadmap. I would rather ride passenger in a '34 Ford A driven by a good driver than a Tesla driven by a lazy, irresponsible fuckwit that repeatedly ignores warnings about autopilot exceeding its capabilities. Handing out licenses like candy and treating holding one as a right instead of a privelege is why we are even having this discussion.[/QUOTE] You should go on a road trip across the USA its quite scenic.

[QUOTE=Trekintosh;52381857]But you stay alert and pay attention to the road and listen to the warnings from the car, right?[/QUOTE] I mean I'm "driving" as I type this so you tell m [Sp]of course, eyes are always forward. [/Sp]

[QUOTE=TestECull;52381502]I'm in favor of society not treating drivng like a god given right. Strict licensing would drop crash rates far more than a bandaid solution by carmakers and it would have a longer lasting impact[/QUOTE] this would be more feasible if your country wasn't designed to assfuck people who can't/won't drive tho.

[QUOTE=Supacasey;52382161]I mean I'm "driving" as I type this so you tell m [Sp]of course, eyes are always forward. [/Sp][/QUOTE] I should ban you just for the fact that even when a vehicle is using autopilot, its illegal to use a phone when driving. Your focus should always be on the road ahead, the whole point of autopilot is to relax but still be aware, not use a phone or fuck around with another device that takes your attention. As much as you think you can, we can't multitask like a computer does, our focus is either on one thing or its on something else.

I think he's being sarcastic.

[QUOTE=OvB;52382533]I think he's being sarcastic.[/QUOTE] Sarcasm doesn't convey well in words, specially when its something as touchy as using a mobile in a car. Its something I take quite seriously especially after having people t-bone my family because they were using a phone. Even thought the Tesla's autopilot system has multiple warning systems, it can still be outright ignored as proven by the snowflake who got himself killed in the news article.

[QUOTE=Reagy;52382525]I should ban you just for the fact that even when a vehicle is using autopilot, its illegal to use a phone when driving. Your focus should always be on the road ahead, the whole point of autopilot is to relax but still be aware, not use a phone or fuck around with another device that takes your attention. As much as you think you can, we can't multitask like a computer does, our focus is either on one thing or its on something else.[/QUOTE] A very dumb reason to ban someone, and depending on where he is in the US (only 15 of 50 states have laws regarding this), he can use a hand-held device while driving. It's not a wise idea to do anything in a vehicle other than keep both hands on the wheel and eyes on the road at any moment. Of course, not one person in this entire thread/forum does that. Everyone gets distracted by something at some time. He could relatively safely type/swipe a sentence on his phone without taking his eyes off the road but for maybe 1-2 seconds at a time, if at all. Roughly the equivalent to checking his speed or adjusting the dash controls.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;52382552]He could relatively safely type/swipe a sentence on his phone without taking his eyes off the road but for maybe 1-2 seconds at a time, if at all. Roughly the equivalent to checking his speed or adjusting the dash controls.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but those two are not comparable, one is a display close to your field of vision that takes a second to even see, the other is a device that can be anywhere within the drivers area and will take your full focus away from driving. As for typing out a sentence, yeah no I'm not going to buy that not even for a second unless they're using voice recognition to word it out which ideally, they should be if they are driving, as typing takes your full focus away. I'm sorry but using a mobile when driving is stupid and regardless of where, you should never be doing it in a moving vehicle, its bad enough already with idiots taking their entire view off the road to fuck around with their cd players, of which again we've had people drive into us because of that exact same reason. Checking speed takes less than a second and the placement of the dials is purposely done so its in your peripheral vision so you will always see them, as for dash controls, you shouldn't have to look at them to adjust them, while with a mobile you do as its a more complex device. So yeah that's my view on it, I hate people to use phones when driving and autopilot is not a reason to change that view for me.

texting and driving is nearly as bad as drunk driving, there's a reason it's banned in most places.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;52382552]A very dumb reason to ban someone, and depending on where he is in the US (only 15 of 50 states have laws regarding this), he can use a hand-held device while driving. It's not a wise idea to do anything in a vehicle other than keep both hands on the wheel and eyes on the road at any moment. Of course, not one person in this entire thread/forum does that. Everyone gets distracted by something at some time. He could relatively safely type/swipe a sentence on his phone without taking his eyes off the road but for maybe 1-2 seconds at a time, if at all. Roughly the equivalent to checking his speed or adjusting the dash controls.[/QUOTE] I agree with reagy. If you're being stupid and not paying attention to the road in your car while posting on a forum of all places, you're really not endangering only your own life but others as well. You miss the point entirely with that writing, everyone is going to be distracted sometime, but when you're literally watching a screen instead of your road that's just reckless at the highest degree. And your argument against it being an issue because it's not against the law is dumb as well. It's literally a strawman and cherry picking. For example, there's no law against not vaccinating your children but it still endangers your kid.