Teacher wins €7,000 compensation after rejection for wearing headscarf - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE]The state of Berlin has been ordered to pay a Muslim teacher €6,900 after it rejected her job application on the grounds that she wore a head scarf. The Berlin labour court ordered the state to pay the woman the equivalent of two months’ salary. A second case of a teacher whom the state rejected because of her head scarf is also currently being considered by the court. Both women had applied for positions at Berlin schools, but were told during job interviews that they would not be permitted to wear head scarves at work. [B]According to the state of Berlin's neutrality law, state employees are not allowed to display religious symbols while in their place of employment.[/B][/QUOTE] Source: [url]https://www.thelocal.de/20170627/teacher-wins-7000-compensation-after-rejection-for-wearing-headscarf[/url]

so what they did was legal, but still they're in the wrong? something smells fishy

So is it allowed by the neutrality law or not?

I would guess it wasn't a legal rejection because while the law prohibits religious symbols, the headscarf is not specifically a Muslim thing and wearing one does not imply you are a Muslim, nor does not having one make you not a Muslim. It is an optional garment worn by women from many religions.

This story feels odd because I'm so used to seeing compensation stories where people win six digits of money for trivial shit

Are headscarves strictly religious symbols?

[QUOTE=Ericson666;52409124]Are headscarves strictly religious symbols?[/QUOTE] No, but Facepunch's alarmingly large Islamophobic crowd will argue otherwise to the ends of the Earth since it's associated with Islam in today's political climate although 20 years ago it would largely have been considered an orthodox Christian thing. A lot of religions (and non-religious lifestyles) impress modesty upon women. Whether that's right or not is a different conversation but ultimately it's up to her if she wants to wear the thing.

I have absolutely zero problem with a muslim woman wearing a headscarf to work.

She wasn't fired for wearing one to work she was rejected for wearing one in the first place which is bullshit and I'm glad she won the lawsuit.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52409147]No, but Facepunch's [b]alarmingly large Islamophobic crowd[/b] will argue otherwise to the ends of the Earth since it's associated with Islam in today's political climate although 20 years ago it would largely have been considered an orthodox Christian thing. A lot of religions (and non-religious lifestyles) impress modesty upon women. Whether that's right or not is a different conversation but ultimately it's up to her if she wants to wear the thing.[/QUOTE] Not just on Facepunch, but many people in Europe and North America think that way too.

If a headscarf is a religious symbol because of Muslims then a shirt and tie is a religious symbol because of Mormons.

Okay, so for those that are confused, there are two things going on in this article. - You may not wear a headscarf as part of a public position as it is a religious symbol. - You may not discriminate applicants based on their religious beliefs / cultural attire. These things are not mutually exclusive. What happened here makes perfect sense, but the article is terrible and incomplete. Not wearing a head scarf can be a restriction for the job; they must be willing to take it off during work hours. However, that does not mean you can turn away an applicant just because they show up wearing a headscarf. If the person was denied a job because they showed up in a headscarf, that is illegal and the employer is at fault. What is also true: If someone wearing a headscarf is unwilling to follow the rules of employment (taking the scarf off during work) then they are in the wrong and there are consequences for that as well. From what I make out from the article, this is not the latter case. The employee did not consider this applicant simply because they wore a headscarf. Her willingness to take it off during work did not even come into question, which is illegal, hence the compensation. The article is rather ambiguous about this, possibly to rile up clicks: [QUOTE] Both women had applied for positions at Berlin schools, but were told during job interviews that they would not be permitted to wear head scarves at work. [/QUOTE] Being told that you are not allowed to wear a headscarf isn't the problem; but the reaction of either party in such a scenario is the key, which is missing from the article. If the wearer says "well that's not acceptable"; then the employer is in the right for refusing the applicant: they are not willing to follow the organisation's dress-code. If the employer says "so therefore we can 't hire you, because you are wearing a headscarf now"; then the applicant's willingness to follow dress-code does not even come into question; they were passed over simply because of the headscarf. The distinction is extremely important to this case, it is THE crux of the case and is completely missing from the article. The fact that the court made this ruling implies to me that the dress-code had nothing to do with this, and was the excuse used to justify it after-the-fact. Courts agonise over these sorts of cases and anyone that has not been involved in a court case may not grasp just how deeply they go into the details of events.

I'm kinda confused about these laws. If you didn't hire a Sikh because they wear a turban or a Jew because they wear a kippah, that seems equally unfair as not hiring someone because they wear a headscarf. I'm not religious but not allowing religious people to wear religious things seems restrictive.

[QUOTE=squids_eye;52409780]If a headscarf is a religious symbol because of Muslims then a shirt and tie is a religious symbol because of Mormons.[/QUOTE] i guess i have to stop wearing my black coat because Amish wear it :( [editline]28th June 2017[/editline] i revile organized religion but by gorm i'll stand behind this woman's right to wear a headscarf to work. not only is it not a strictly religious thing but who the fuck does it harm? i wear an ankh necklace everywhere yet somehow im allowed to work and visit secular buildings despite that being a very clearly religious (even if it's ancient religion) symbol. lol.

[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;52410006]I'm kinda confused about these laws. If you didn't hire a Sikh because they wear a turban or a Jew because they wear a kippah, that seems equally unfair as not hiring someone because they wear a headscarf. I'm not religious but not allowing religious people to wear religious things seems restrictive.[/QUOTE] It's a dilemma because on one hand they want public schools to be neutral and not display any kind of religious or political symbols but on the other hand this means refusing to hire certain people unless they go against their beliefs.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52409147]No, but Facepunch's alarmingly large Islamophobic crowd will argue otherwise to the ends of the Earth since it's associated with Islam in today's political climate although 20 years ago it would largely have been considered an orthodox Christian thing. A lot of religions (and non-religious lifestyles) impress modesty upon women. Whether that's right or not is a different conversation but ultimately it's up to her if she wants to wear the thing.[/QUOTE] What a load of horse shit, but I guess this gets agrees because it panders to the FP's edgy contrarian ""liberal progressive"" crowd. Care to share some sources on orthodox Christian thing?

[QUOTE=dzonint;52410295]What a load of horse shit, but I guess this gets agrees because it panders to the FP's edgy contrarian ""liberal progressive"" crowd. Care to share some sources on orthodox Christian thing?[/QUOTE] Are you serious? You're fucking [I]Serbian[/I] and you've never seen a little old lady wearing a headscarf? I don't buy that for a second considering it's a largely Slavic trend, but here, [I]I'll humor you.[/I] [t]http://i.imgur.com/3mmamfC.jpg[/t] These women are not Muslim, they're orthodox Christians. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headscarf[/url] [quote]In many rural areas, older women, especially widows, still observe the custom, especially in eastern and southern Europe. At times the styles of covering using simple cloth became very elaborate, with complicated layers and folding, held in place with hair pins. Among the many terms for head-coverings made of flexible cloth are wimple, hennin, kerchief, gable hood, as well as light hats, mob caps and bonnets. In countries with large Eastern Orthodox Christianity population such as Romania [7] or Russia[8] headscarves and veils are used by Christian women in the Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodox Church, Assyrian Church of the East, and Roman Catholic Church.[9][10][11] A few years back, all women in Russia who attended Divine Liturgy wore head-coverings. A women having her head covered means that she honors the Lord. Head-coverings also symbolizes that a woman is married and that her husband is the head of the family. Little girls also have their heads covered when they go to Mass at church, not because they are married, but in order to honor the Lord. Today, young Russian Orthodox women and little girls still cover their heads when going to church, but with a different type of headscarf: Mantilla, which is a silk or lace scarf. Nowadays only woman of older age (grandmothers) wear full head coverings. Some English speakers use the word "babushka" (the word for 'grandma' in Russian: About this sound бaбушка (help·info)) to indicate a headscarf tied below the chin, as still commonly worn in rural parts of Europe. In many parts of Europe, headscarves are used mainly[citation needed] by elderly women and this led to the use of the term "babushka", a Slavic word meaning 'grandmother'. Some types of head coverings that Russian women wear are: circlet, veil, and wimple. In many branches of Orthodox Judaism, married women are required to cover their hair with scarves, known as tichels or snoods, in compliance with the code of modesty known as tzniut. These hair coverings come in different shapes and sizes. Tichel is a veil where it covers all the hair and towards the back of the head the left over veil is made into a bun. Snoods belong to almost the same style, and are worn more like a hat. An alternative is to cover the natural hair by wearing a wig or a beret. A Tichel (Yiddish טיכל tikhl), also called a mitpachat (Hebrew מִטפַּחַת miṭpaḥat), is the headscarf worn by many married Orthodox Jewish out of religious law.[/quote] This covers orthodox Christianity [I]and[/I] Judaism. Bonus: [img]http://i.imgur.com/kyi9wZj.jpg[/img] Still not a Muslim.

[QUOTE=dzonint;52410295]What a load of horse shit, but I guess this gets agrees because it panders to the FP's edgy contrarian ""liberal progressive"" crowd. Care to share some sources on orthodox Christian thing?[/QUOTE] Boy what an embarrassing post.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52410324]Are you serious? You're fucking [I]Serbian[/I] and you've never seen a little old lady wearing a headscarf? I don't buy that for a second considering it's a largely Slavic trend, but here, [I]I'll humor you.[/I] [t]http://i.imgur.com/3mmamfC.jpg[/t] [/QUOTE] You're being so dishonest right now. How the fuck are old ladies wearing a headscarf associated with orthodox christianity? You're just being outright manipulative trying to push religious narrative on Balkan elders wearing headscarves, the part where you use implication about them wearing it because of modesty is bullshit too. [QUOTE=Pascall;52410333]Boy what an embarrassing post.[/QUOTE] How does this contribute to discussion again?

[QUOTE=dzonint;52410504]You're being so dishonest right now. How the fuck are old ladies wearing a headscarf associated with orthodox christianity? You're just being outright manipulative trying to push religious narrative on Balkan elders wearing headscarves, the part where you use implication about them wearing it because of modesty is bullshit too. How does this contribute to discussion again?[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headscarf[/url]

[QUOTE=dzonint;52410504]You're being so dishonest right now. How the fuck are old ladies wearing a headscarf associated with orthodox christianity? You're just being outright manipulative trying to push religious narrative on Balkan elders wearing headscarves, the part where you use implication about them wearing it because of modesty is bullshit too. How does this contribute to discussion again?[/QUOTE] What the fuck is this post? I guess you win, because I'm not going to give myself the brain damage necessary to continue talking to you.

Denying someone a job because they are wearing a headscarf is wrong, albeit so is denying someone a job for having a tattoo, there's a bigger issue at play there than just religion. As for being told that they're not allowed to wear one during work hours, that's perfectly understandable. I imagine that such applicants may be told to remove the headscarf during the interview to ensure that they are comfortable doing so for the job at hand, many interviews will put you in a situation to ensure that you can cope with the job.