A single retail worker could bring down Australia's enterprise bargaining system - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote=ABC News][b]Business figures and industrial relations experts are warning of workplace chaos caused by the possible collapse of enterprise bargaining agreements (EBAs) covering hundreds of thousands of workers.[/b] Key points: - Coles employee Penny Vickers is challenging the Coles enterprise bargaining agreement - Ms Vickers claims she's $33-a-week worse off under the Coles EBA than under the award - Experts warn the challenge could cause the collapse of many EBAs Brisbane mother of two Penny Vickers, who stacks shelves at Coles at night, is challenging the company's 2011 EBA with her union, the Shop Distributive & Allied Employees Association (SDA). Ms Vickers, who is representing herself at the Commission, claims she is $33-a-week worse off under the Coles EBA than she would otherwise be under the award. Coles' 74,000 workers are employed under a 2011 EBA because the Commission last year struck down the 2014 EBA following a successful challenge by trolley collector Duncan Hart. [b]SDA national secretary Gerard Dwyer said the "rolling up" of penalty rates at Coles and Woolworths, as part of the union-negotiated EBAs, had delivered weekly wage rates $90 higher than the award rate.[/b] "Reporting on the wage outcomes reached for Coles workers always fails to take into account higher rates paid to the workforce in non-penalty hours," he said.[/quote] [quote]Sydney barrister Jeffrey Phillips, an industrial relations specialist, said the wording of the Better Off Overall Test in Section 193 was problematic. "The provision of the statute's fairly clear. I think the words are intractable, I can't see how one can get around them other than by an amendment to the Act," Mr Phillips said. [b]"Now if enterprise agreements can be upset because one or two people are able to say, 'Well look at my situation, my situation is such that I'm not any better off, in fact I'm worse off,' that would have the effect of bringing the whole house down."[/b][/quote] Read the rest of the article at [url]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-04/coles-employee-could-bring-down-enterprise-bargaining-system/8414994[/url] An enterprise bargaining agreement is where the workers of a particular business, represented by their union, enter into negotiations with the employer over matters like wages, working conditions and overtime. EBAs replace the relevant industry award, which sets out minimum wages and overtime for workers in a particular industry (eg retail) who are not covered by an EBA. Industry awards should not be confused with the national minimum wage, which only covers employees who are not covered by either an EBA nor an industry award. Ms Vickers has argued to the Fair Work Commission that the hours she works means she is $33 per-week worse-off under the Coles EBA, which was approved by >90% of Coles' employees, than the industry award, which the Coles EBA replaced. A new interpretation of the "Better Off Overall Test" by the Fair Work Commission means that the FWC can invalidate an entire EBA for all employees, even if only a single employee is worse-off under the EBA.

So is the solution to simply make EBAs meet the industry award? How will this bring down the system?

[QUOTE=code_gs;52060909]So is the solution to simply make EBAs meet the industry award? How will this bring down the system?[/QUOTE] He's saying it might bring down the EBA system specifically

[QUOTE=code_gs;52060909]So is the solution to simply make EBAs meet the industry award? How will this bring down the system?[/QUOTE] The Coles EBA provides employees with a higher base wage than the industry award for retail - $22 per hour, compared to something like $19 per hour for people who work in retail but who are not covered by an EBA. However, the industry award provides higher penalty rates than the Coles EBA for working certain hours - for example, Coles workers get an extra 50% wage for working on Sundays, while people who are paid according to the industry award get an extra 75%. This is how a small number of Coles employees are worse-off on the Coles EBA than the industry award. The solution is for the Fair Work Commission to not nullify an entire enterprise bargaining agreement simply because a single employee might be worse-off on it than if they were paid the award rates. If the Fair Work Commission nullifies the current 2011 Coles EBA - only about a year after they nullified the 2014 Coles EBA because a single employee similarly made a complaint about that - that could risk EBAs everywhere being nullified. Despite the fact that >90% of Coles workers voted for the EBA, and a clear majority are better-off on the EBA than the award. [editline]5th April 2017[/editline] Tl;dr a single Coles worker is unhappy that she is paid $33 per week lower on the Coles EBA than the industry award, so by taking her complaint to the Fair Work Commission, she may end up being responsible for many tens of thousands of Coles employees being up to $90 per week worse-off, if the FWC nullify the Coles EBA.

If anything it implies there was oversight in the EBA for people with non-standard hours, something which could be rectified by amending the agreement rather than dropping it entirely.

[QUOTE=Lonestriper;52061074]If anything it implies there was oversight in the EBA for people with non-standard hours, something which could be rectified by amending the agreement rather than dropping it entirely.[/QUOTE] I don't doubt that there was oversight in the designing of the Coles EBA, but it would have been more-productive for Ms Vickers to take her genuine complaints to the drafting table of the new Coles EBA which will be negotiated later this year (but do keep in mind, there are never guarantees that EBAs will be approved). By taking it to the Fair Work Commission, the only realistic outcome to her benefit is that the FWC will nullify the agreement - just like what they did when a trolley collector complained about the 2014 Coles EBA, meaning Coles workers had to go back to the 2011 Coles EBA.

[QUOTE=BF;52061010]The Coles EBA provides employees with a higher base wage than the industry award for retail - $22 per hour, compared to something like $19 per hour for people who work in retail but who are not covered by an EBA. However, the industry award provides higher penalty rates than the Coles EBA for working certain hours - for example, Coles workers get an extra 50% wage for working on Sundays, while people who are paid according to the industry award get an extra 75%. This is how a small number of Coles employees are worse-off on the Coles EBA than the industry award. The solution is for the Fair Work Commission to not nullify an entire enterprise bargaining agreement simply because a single employee might be worse-off on it than if they were paid the award rates. If the Fair Work Commission nullifies the current 2011 Coles EBA - only about a year after they nullified the 2014 Coles EBA because a single employee similarly made a complaint about that - that could risk EBAs everywhere being nullified. Despite the fact that >90% of Coles workers voted for the EBA, and a clear majority are better-off on the EBA than the award. [editline]5th April 2017[/editline] Tl;dr a single Coles worker is unhappy that she is paid $33 per week lower on the Coles EBA than the industry award, so by taking her complaint to the Fair Work Commission, she may end up being responsible for many tens of thousands of Coles employees being up to $90 per week worse-off, if the FWC nullify the Coles EBA.[/QUOTE] Blaming the woman is idiotic. Don't you realize how stupid that sounds? The EBA system is shit. The award is what people should go by, there should be no bargaining with the basic award, only extra benefits on top for corporations who wish to do so. The problem here is the EBA not the lady who is getting ripped off by her employers agreement.

[QUOTE=LAMB SAUCE;52061188]Blaming the woman is idiotic. Don't you realize how stupid that sounds? The EBA system is shit. The award is what people should go by, there should be no bargaining with the basic award, only extra benefits on top for corporations who wish to do so. The problem here is the EBA not the lady who is getting ripped off by her employers agreement.[/QUOTE] Yeah the award is what we should go by. So I and the majority of other Coles employees should be paid significantly less per week.

[QUOTE=BF;52061273]Yeah the award is what we should go by. So I and the majority of other Coles employees should be paid significantly less per week.[/QUOTE] EBAs are the reason the SDA are a bunch of limp dicks. Ideally we would do away with EBAs completely and raise the industry award to a fairer level to compensate across each industry. Plus it's not the woman's fault. If she's 33 less well off due to an EBA she has a right to complain about it. The legal weirdness around it is nothing to do with her so pull your head in mate [editline]5th April 2017[/editline] SHe also has the right to take it to the FWC because that is its purpose

[QUOTE=BF;52061273]Yeah the award is what we should go by. So I and the majority of other Coles employees should be paid significantly less per week.[/QUOTE] Blame your employer, not this lady bringing down a shit system.

As someone who works with Coles, I will be fucking pissed if the EBA collapsed

[QUOTE=LAMB SAUCE;52063247]Blame your employer, not this lady bringing down a shit system.[/QUOTE] Blame my employer for what? For an EBA which means I'm better off than the industry award? The majority of Coles employees are better-off on the Coles EBA than the award, it's only a small minority who are not. [editline]6th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=killerteacup;52061500]EBAs are the reason the SDA are a bunch of limp dicks. Ideally we would do away with EBAs completely and raise the industry award to a fairer level to compensate across each industry. Plus it's not the woman's fault. If she's 33 less well off due to an EBA she has a right to complain about it. The legal weirdness around it is nothing to do with her so pull your head in mate [editline]5th April 2017[/editline] SHe also has the right to take it to the FWC because that is its purpose[/QUOTE] Okay it won't exactly be the woman's fault, but her case does have the potential of causing a collapse of not just Coles' EBA, but setting a precedent for many other EBAs to be challenged and nullified. And then many hundreds of thousands of workers could be worse-off. And no the EBA system shouldn't exactly be done away with by having just the industry awards; it shouldn't be the job of government to set wages for everyone.

The thing is, fuck all this one for all, all for one shit. I know people here might become worse off because of this employee's pursuit of fairness for herself. But from her point of view, why the heck shouldn't she? It's not her business to worry about her colleagues' paycheck sizes. It's her business to worry about hers and if she's getting paid fairly. Her work is not worth less than theirs but under this EBA it apparently is. She should sure as shit fight to get the same pay as everyone else in her company and there are level-headed solutions to this i.e. amendment, but nobody has their heads screwed on right, as usual with employment/pay law all across the world. Bottom line is, it's her manager's duty to look after her and her colleagues, not her own. There's no act of charity to be had here; she can't just let this lie because it might hurt other employees. That would be nonsense.

[QUOTE=BF;52061273]Yeah the award is what we should go by. So I and the majority of other Coles employees should be paid significantly less per week.[/QUOTE] Ahaha you're the lowly retail worker blaming the lowly retail worker for the actions of the company.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52064539]Ahaha you're the lowly retail worker blaming the lowly retail worker for the actions of the company.[/QUOTE] Actions of the company? EBAs are negotiated between employees, represented by a union, and the employer, where the EBA then needs to be approved by >85% of the employees. Which it was...

[QUOTE=BF;52064576]Actions of the company? EBAs are negotiated between employees, represented by a union, and the employer, where the EBA then needs to be approved by >85% of the employees. Which it was...[/QUOTE] And your angry that if the system is torn down because this woman was being underpaid, your company would proceed to pay everyone less. And you're aiming the blame at her, and not the company for cutting everyone else's pays.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52064650]And your angry that if the system is torn down because this woman was being underpaid, your company would proceed to pay everyone less. And you're aiming the blame at her, and not the company for cutting everyone else's pays.[/QUOTE] It would be the Fair Work Commission that nullifies the EBA, not Coles. Coles is fine with the EBA, as are >90% of their employees. And she's not being underpaid. The EBA isn't another layer on top of the industry award, it replaces the industry award. She's being paid exactly as she should be.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52064650]And your angry that if the system is torn down because this woman was being underpaid, your company would proceed to pay everyone less. And you're aiming the blame at her, and not the company for cutting everyone else's pays.[/QUOTE] Makes sense why he's working at Coles if he can't figure out that some poor woman is being ripped off and she has a right to fair pay, just like he has. Also LMAO, unions are a fucking joke for retail. The EBA exists solely to fuck people over. Can't wait for them to be scrapped and replaced with the award, like it should be.

[QUOTE=LAMB SAUCE;52064710]Makes sense why he's working at Coles if he can't figure out that some poor woman is being ripped off and she has a right to fair pay, just like he has. Also LMAO, unions are a fucking joke for retail. The EBA exists solely to fuck people over. Can't wait for them to be scrapped and replaced with the award, like it should be.[/QUOTE] I've never said that it wasnt unfair that she is paid less on the EBA than the award. But that her challenge could potentially disadvantage a whole lot of other employees if it succeeds.

[QUOTE=BF;52064753]I've never said that it wasnt unfair that she is paid less on the EBA than the award. But that her challenge could potentially disadvantage a whole lot of other employees if it succeeds.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=BF;52064369]Blame my employer for what? For an EBA which means I'm better off than the industry award? The majority of Coles employees are better-off on the Coles EBA than the award, it's only a small minority who are not. [editline]6th April 2017[/editline] Okay it won't exactly be the woman's fault, but her case does have the potential of causing a collapse of not just Coles' EBA, but setting a precedent for many other EBAs to be challenged and nullified. And then many hundreds of thousands of workers could be worse-off. And no the EBA system shouldn't exactly be done away with by having just the industry awards; it shouldn't be the job of government to set wages for everyone.[/QUOTE] its not in any way her fault, she's not responsible for the potential for EBAs to be nullified over a single disagreement. You're acting like you're not blaming her when really you're putting the responsibility on her. Stop trying to make the case that 'her challenge could potentially disadvantage a whole lot of other employees'. It's nothing to do with her, she has every right to make a complaint if she is being screwed over by an EBA It's [I]is[/I] the job of government to set wages. That's the entire point of the minimum fucking wage. EBAs are a method for corporations to skirt the award. The minimum wage should be higher. It's important that the government does this fairly instead of relying on corporations to do EBAs, which is ridiculous. Also, EBA's exist because the SDA has agreements in place with employers like Coles whereby Employer's are automatically signed up to the union by the company in exchange for concessions made in these EBAs. the primary stakeholders in the SDA are the companies themselves, not the employees, which is why the SDA can get away with not only negotiating EBAs that disadvantage many workers across many industries, but also donate to anti-abortion funds and catholic institutions using the money they receive from membership fees. You've got a shit union. To pretend that the union has negotiated some sort of great deal on your behalf is pure and utter fantasy. I worked at Bunnings for four years, bunnings is a subsidiary of Wesfarmers same as Coles is and sure, the EBA did increase wages, but not across the board for everyone, and if it didn't for this woman, she has the right to make a complaint. If that brings the EBA down then maybe they should have an EBA that holds the house up for everyone. Also, to point out the obvious, this woman is the only one to [I]challenge.[/I] She's very likely not the only one to have experienced this.

[QUOTE=BF;52064753]I've never said that it wasnt unfair that she is paid less on the EBA than the award. But that her challenge could potentially disadvantage a whole lot of other employees if it succeeds.[/QUOTE] Altruism is all fine and dandy, but this is still a big pile of "not my fucking problem" from her point of view. She has the ability to get paid more. She's taking advantage of that. It is utterly idiotic to assume that nobody will ever take advantage of that.

I know the SDA are pretty shite but I'm sure they'd be able to negotiate a new EBA which addresses the specific issue while retaining all the features of the previous one, if the worst case scenario was to happen