European Protestants and Catholics say they have more similar theological beliefs than 500 years ago - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote]Five centuries after the Reformation triggered a series of long and bloody religious wars across Europe, modern-day Protestants and Catholics believe they have more in common theologically than they do differences, and most would be willing to accept each other as neighbours and family members. [B]“Theological differences that split western Christianity in the 1500s have diminished to a degree that might have shocked Christians in past centuries,”[/B] says a report by the Washington-based Pew Research Center. The study does note a geographical divide in western Europe, with predominantly Protestant countries in the north and Catholic countries mainly in the south. In recent decades there has been a slow rapprochement between the Catholic and Protestant traditions, with greater cooperation and dialogue, encouraged by Pope Francis, although there are still pockets of sectarianism. Last year, leaders of the Catholic and main Protestant churches in Germany issued a joint text calling for a “healing of memories” of past divisions. Across the board, [B]5[/B][B]8% of Protestants and 50% of Catholics in western Europe say the two traditions are religiously more similar than different.[/B] But 26% and 34% respectively say the differences outweigh the similarities. [B]Roughly nine out of 10 or more Protestants and Catholics say they are willing to accept members of the other tradition as neighbours.[/B] Large majorities of both groups say they would be willing to accept each other into their families. In every country bar one, majorities or pluralities of Catholics and Protestants say both faith and good works are needed for salvation. The exception is Norway, where 51% of Protestants say salvation comes through faith alone.[/quote] [url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/31/reformation-protestant-catholic-europe-scars-healed-study[/url]

I think the vast majority of Christians in America wouldn't be able to tell the difference except Protestants like singing long boring songs and Catholics like giving long boring speeches the only redeeming factor of the Protestant church I went to was the free breakfast afterwards but eventually they stopped doing that so I decided to worship Satan instead

No shit, a lot of backwards conservative thinking has died off and given way to social progression and reform. This isn't exactly the 17th century anymore where it's considered acceptable to throw your neighbour down the well just because he's a filthy Papist.

Do people in England still want to colonize Ireland and do Irish people still want to kill redcoats

Makes sense considering religions seem to get less clearly defined the more moderate they get.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;52633554]Do people in England still want to colonize Ireland and do Irish people still want to kill redcoats[/QUOTE] Yes, but we've learned to just mock each other on the tele instead.

Maybe I'm just really uneducated on the topic but I always assumed this was the case. I was raised without religion though so I'm missing out on a lot of nuances, but are they actually considered to be that different? Or is it just the case in Europe?

[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;52634578]Maybe I'm just really uneducated on the topic but I always assumed this was the case. I was raised without religion though so I'm missing out on a lot of nuances, but are they actually considered to be that different? Or is it just the case in Europe?[/QUOTE] Wars were fought over the difference between Protestantism and Catholicism. Now that everyone's had a couple hundred years to chill out they've realized they aren't so different.

[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;52634578]Maybe I'm just really uneducated on the topic but I always assumed this was the case. I was raised without religion though so I'm missing out on a lot of nuances, but are they actually considered to be that different? Or is it just the case in Europe?[/QUOTE] It mostly boils down to a handful of key theological differences. It's just that those handful of differences sorta change the whole dynamic of the faith depending on which sect you follow.

[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;52634578]Maybe I'm just really uneducated on the topic but I always assumed this was the case. I was raised without religion though so I'm missing out on a lot of nuances, but are they actually considered to be that different? Or is it just the case in Europe?[/QUOTE] The main differences are: - Protestants believe the Bible is the sole authority of the faith ([I]sola scriptura[/I]). Catholics believe that both the Bible and their church traditions have authority. This is a massive source of many of the differences between the two, including, but not limited to: Marian dogmas, purgatory, the Pope, transubstantiation, treasury of merit, indulgences, etc. - Protestants believe that the forgiveness and grace of God comes only through faith ([I]sola fide[/I]), but that good works must necessarily flow from that faith and grace. They believe that being justified before God is a one time thing. Catholics believe that forgiveness and grace come through both faith and specific works, like the sacraments. They see justification as a progressive thing. So you become more justified before God as you do more good works (hence purgatory where you need to complete your justification). The Council of Trent is a good go to to see a lot of the differences spelled out. It was the Catholic response to the protestant teachings. It essentially goes through everything the Catholics disagree with and condemns anyone who believes them.

Catholics do way more with side figures. There are a lot of saints that are worshipped besides the usual three musketiers. Protestants stick with God, Jesus and the Holy spirit. In Europe, the difference between Catholic churches and a protestant ones are huge. Catholic churches are the ones people visit as tourists. Amazing paintings, incredible architecture, fancy windows, statues and marble floors. The protestant churches I've seen have white walls, no fancy windows, and few if any statues. The reason for that lies in the belief, sticking purely to the main cast and condemning the idolisation of background characters. The theological differences are pretty visible, but tolerance is up. As the article says, for most people the similarities outweigh the differences.

[QUOTE=FPtje;52636140] In Europe, the difference between Catholic churches and a protestant ones are huge. Catholic churches are the ones people visit as tourists. Amazing paintings, incredible architecture, fancy windows, statues and marble floors. The protestant churches I've seen have white walls, no fancy windows, and few if any statues. The reason for that lies in the belief, sticking purely to the main cast and condemning the idolisation of background characters.[/QUOTE] We have a big and fancy Lutheran cathedral over here, I'm sure they exist elsewhere as well.

Also you're forgetting those Protestant megachurches that are completely obnoxious.

[QUOTE=FPtje;52636140]Catholics do way more with side figures. There are a lot of saints that are worshipped besides the usual three musketiers. Protestants stick with God, Jesus and the Holy spirit. In Europe, the difference between Catholic churches and a protestant ones are huge. Catholic churches are the ones people visit as tourists. Amazing paintings, incredible architecture, fancy windows, statues and marble floors. The protestant churches I've seen have white walls, no fancy windows, and few if any statues. The reason for that lies in the belief, sticking purely to the main cast and condemning the idolisation of background characters. The theological differences are pretty visible, but tolerance is up. As the article says, for most people the similarities outweigh the differences.[/QUOTE] Catholics do not worship saints.

I find it interesting how many Catholic traditions have returned to the Protestant church - at least into the Church of England; I'm a High Church Anglican and things that probably would have ostracised me a hundred years ago are quite common now.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52636852]Catholics do not worship saints.[/QUOTE] Just to elaborate on this a little bit, saints are honored in the catholic tradition as a sign of respect for good and miraculous deeds attributed to them, but they are not worshiped. Prayers sent to them and services done in their name are, again, done out of respect and to request for their intercession in some cases on God's behalf.

The dividing line between Catholics and Protestants runs straight trough the Netherlands. All Province's previously occupied by Spain are Catholic, the rest is mainly Protestant. Catholic churches are a lot more aesthetically Pleasing. Since protestants shunned all the gold and intricate and expensive stuff the Catholics claim they needed for their religion.

[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;52636904]I find it interesting how many Catholic traditions have returned to the Protestant church - at least into the Church of England; I'm a High Church Anglican and things that probably would have ostracised me a hundred years ago are quite common now.[/QUOTE] Like what? I'm curious, I've not read about anything like that. The only thing I hear anymore about the CoE is how the topic of gay marriage is tearing the church asunder across the different countries it's in.

[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;52634578]Maybe I'm just really uneducated on the topic but I always assumed this was the case. I was raised without religion though so I'm missing out on a lot of nuances, but are they actually considered to be that different? Or is it just the case in Europe?[/QUOTE] Here are the basic differences: Catholicism has Ekans, Oddish, Mankey, Growlithe and their evolutions, and also Syther and Electabuzz. Protestantism has Sandshrew, Vulpix, Meowth, Bellsprout and their evolutions, and also Magmar and Pinsir. I hope this helps.

[QUOTE=taipan;52637107]The dividing line between Catholics and Protestants runs straight trough the Netherlands. All Province's previously occupied by Spain are Catholic, the rest is mainly Protestant. Catholic churches are a lot more aesthetically Pleasing. Since protestants shunned all the gold and intricate and expensive stuff the Catholics claim they needed for their religion.[/QUOTE] Catholic dogma does not say it is "needed" for faith. Think of it this way - do you have any decorations in your house? Any at all? Same concept. Do you have family photos? For the longest time, there were no such thing as cameras. All people had to remember one by is through paintings, statues or stained glass. On top of that, large swaths of people were illiterate for the longest time, so said paintings, statues, and stained glass helped tell stories from the bible. Now out of these things, why would one just make it out of garbage? Why not gold or expensive marble if it's affordable? Also majority of that "expensive" stuff is found in large cathedrals and such. Many, many of the smaller parish church buildings are just as plain as protestant ones save having crucifixes everywhere instead of crosses.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52636852]Catholics do not worship saints.[/QUOTE] Technically, they do worship saints, but it's a different, lesser, kind of warship than the kind they give God. They give [I]Latria[/I] to God alone, [I]Dulia[/I] to the saints, and [I]Hyperdulia[/I] to Mary. All three are types of worship.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52638624]Technically, they do worship saints, but it's a different, lesser, kind of warship than the kind they give God. They give [I]Latria[/I] to God alone, [I]Dulia[/I] to the saints, and [I]Hyperdulia[/I] to Mary. All three are types of worship.[/QUOTE] Veneration is giving honor to them. That is not worship in the slightest. From how it was explained to me, the reason Protestants always think that Catholics worship saints is because for Protestants, the only form of worship is via praying. And because Catholics pray to saints, they must be worshiping them. From the Catholic perspective, worship comes through Holy Communion. Going to mass, taking in the Eucharist. That is worship, praying is not.

[t]http://www.truthforsaints.com/Christian_Denominations/denomination_history/files/denominations_family_tree_truthforsaints.png[/t] Here's a at least vaguely accurate map of the all the crazy ass denominations of the church in case anyone was wondering. I can't vouch for the site listed there as I just googled "family tree of christian denominations" so yeah. Wooo cool kid episcopal club in the middle here.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52639001]Veneration is giving honor to them. That is not worship in the slightest. From how it was explained to me, the reason Protestants always think that Catholics worship saints is because for Protestants, the only form of worship is via praying. And because Catholics pray to saints, they must be worshiping them. From the Catholic perspective, worship comes through Holy Communion. Going to mass, taking in the Eucharist. That is worship, praying is not.[/QUOTE] I'm just giving you the official line from the Catholic church. It argues that the idea of worship varies a lot and that God is given one type while saints are given another type. The church even used to call it "worship of [I]Latria[/I]" or "worship of [I]dulia[/I]." I'm not sure where you got that whole bit about praying and worship from. Protestants believe worship can come from all sorts of things, including communion, prayer, good deeds, etc. Worship is an attitude and outlook that recognized the supremacy of God above all others and is expressed through the entirety of our daily lives. [editline]1st September 2017[/editline] One of the problems, though, is that the Bible doesn't make the distinction between [I]latria[/I] and [I]dulia [/I]that the Catholic church makes. For example, Galatians 4:8 says that the Galatians used to give "[I]dulia[/I]" to idols, yet he is clearly referring to the type of worship that should only go to God, therefore making them idolaters. If we were to used the distinction that the Roman Catholic church claims between [I]latria [/I]and [I]dulia[/I], then these people wouldn't have been idolaters because they never gave [I]latia [/I]to the idols, only [I]dulia[/I].

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52637192]Like what? I'm curious, I've not read about anything like that. The only thing I hear anymore about the CoE is how the topic of gay marriage is tearing the church asunder across the different countries it's in.[/QUOTE] I can't speak for the worldwide Anglican communion, sheltered in my little island as I am, but it's small liturgical practises like [I]ad orientem[/I] worship (that is, the priest turning his back to the congregation rather than facing them), the use of Latin rather than English, referring to vicars as "father", genuflection, and most strikingly the acceptance of the miracle of transubstantiation during the Sacrament of the Eucharist, as well as the incorporation of the other Sacraments into worship - these being pretty well anathema only fifty years ago within the CoE (indeed, it still is in some churches). There's the whole thing about the ordination of women, as well, which has become kind of contentious.

to be honest the disagreements are pretty petty even today, for most of the protestant churches and the catholic church like arguments over the holy trinity, when to take sacrament, how often one should pray, latin or no latin

[QUOTE=Sableye;52643718]to be honest the disagreements are pretty petty even today, for most of the protestant churches and the catholic church like arguments over the holy trinity, when to take sacrament, how often one should pray, latin or no latin[/QUOTE] Arguments over the holy trinity is pretty much the core of the faith. Like, without the trinity, there is no Christianity. The rest you mention aren't "petty" in the sense that it causes a lot of angry disagreements. As far as I know, different Catholic parishes decide themselves if they want mass in Latin or the native language and the higher church doesn't care either or. [editline]3rd September 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;52643588] and most strikingly the acceptance of the miracle of transubstantiation during the Sacrament of the Eucharist.[/QUOTE] That's pretty surprising, I did not know it was going that direction

[QUOTE=Sableye;52643718]to be honest the disagreements are pretty petty even today, for most of the protestant churches and the catholic church like arguments over the holy trinity, when to take sacrament, how often one should pray, latin or no latin[/QUOTE] Protestants and Catholics don't disagree about the trinity. You've also simplified those other differences in such a way as to ignore the actual difference. They don't disagree on "when to take sacrament." They disagree on the entire meaning and purpose of the sacrament (like communion). They don't disagree on "how often one should pray." They disagree on whether one should pray to saints or not and whether repetitive prayers given by the church have any meaning what-so-ever for penance. The latin thing is just stupid no matter what way you look at it. If you're going to stick with a dead language, then at least make it the original languages of the Bible.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52644122] That's pretty surprising, I did not know it was going that direction[/QUOTE] It's sort of a circulation; initially the Words of Distribution in the Church were "The body of our Lord Jesus Christ which was given for thee...", maintaining the Roman tradition. In 1552 the words were changed to "take and eat this in remembrance...", appeasing the Protestants (at the time, the young Edward VI was King and acted through his Protector, the Duke of Somerset, who was a protestant of the continental style); they also added the Black Rubric which explicitly said "it is against the truth of Christ's true natural body to be in more places than one". Then, in 1559 (when Elizabeth I was Queen), the Black Rubric was dropped and the Words of Distribution became "the body of our Lord Jesus Christ which was given for thee... take and eat in remembrance that Christ died for thee and feed on him in your hearts." It's been back and forth over the years - kind of natural when you remember that the Church of England is "a post between Rome and Geneva". [editline]6th September 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Sableye;52643718]to be honest the disagreements are pretty petty even today, for most of the protestant churches and the catholic church like arguments over the holy trinity, when to take sacrament, how often one should pray, latin or no latin[/QUOTE] I don't think you're entirely familiar with either Church...