[IMG]https://i.cbc.ca/1.4260872.1503597772!/fileImage/httpImage/image.png_gen/derivatives/original_620/sheraton-orchestra.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE]Performers who have worked with a Toronto orchestra are speaking out after they received a shocking email asking vocalists who are not "physically fit and slim" to refrain from wearing "tight-fitting dresses."
The email, signed by Sheraton Cadwell Orchestra management, says, "...although almost all of our vocalists are fit and slim — the way our boutique orchestras would like our front line artists to be — two of our featured singers were not."
"It came as a shock. It rather drew the blood from my face the first time I read it," said Dunitz, who immediately got in touch with other vocalists and found their reaction was mirroring hers.
The email, which was sent on Monday, reads, "Your image is our image. If you look good, we do, too."
It goes on to say the management hopes those singers would opt for "less physically accentuating dresses instead," and that in the future only singers who "know how to dress strategically" and don't bring attention to their "dietary indulgences" would be showcased.
[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/orchestra-email-outrage-1.4260556"]http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/orchestra-email-outrage-1.4260556[/URL]
I know they're live performers and image matters, but that e-mail is very tactless. There are better ways to deliver that message
That is such a snide, condescending email. I'm more annoyed with the tone of it than the nature of the request. It pointlessly insults everyone, not just the vocalists. The orchestral musicians are "essentially background wallpaper"??? I'm sure that feels good for any of them to read.
How to get fired in one easy step
Like not only is it hugely insulting to the singers but whoever wrote managed to insult every other member of the orchestra at the same time.
I was expecting a "it's not over 'till the fat lady sings" joke.
There are probably thousands of more tactful ways to bring up the subject, seems like this dude just wanted to get a rise out of people.
Yeah this is some gross bullshit just because one of the higher ups hates fat people and doesn't wanna go "ew, gross."
And ensemble is an ensemble. If you care more about [I]one of the singers might be too fat, oh no,[/I] then you're heart is in the wrong place, and you're in the absolutely wrong business.
"it's a personal opinion that fit people are more attractive"
but it's not, a fit person does simply look better and more professional than a fat person
yeah they could have delivered their message better in a hundred different ways, but let's not pretend that fat people are healthy and all just because the message was crass and rude.
[QUOTE=Nebukadnezzer;52611925]"it's a personal opinion that fit people are more attractive"
but it's not, a fit person does simply look better and more professional than a fat person
yeah they could have delivered their message better in a hundred different ways, but let's not pretend that fat people are healthy and all just because the message was crass and rude.[/QUOTE]
Who are you quoting? Who are you arguing with? I don't think anyone so far has said anything like this.
It's a shitty e-mail typed by a presumably shitty person. There are ways to get the point across without a god complex.
Is the new thing to go into a thread where everyone agrees with you, invent a quote, and argue with yourself for a little while?
[QUOTE=Nebukadnezzer;52611925]"it's a personal opinion that fit people are more attractive"
but it's not, a fit person does simply look better and more professional than a fat person
yeah they could have delivered their message better in a hundred different ways, but let's not pretend that fat people are healthy and all just because the message was crass and rude.[/QUOTE]
Okay you're missing one huge important point:
It literally doesn't matter at all and there's absolutely no reason to bring it up
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52611968]Who are you quoting? Who are you arguing with? I don't think anyone so far has said anything like this.
It's a shitty e-mail typed by a presumably shitty person. There are ways to get the point across without a god complex.
Is the new thing to go into a thread where everyone agrees with you, invent a quote, and argue with yourself for a little while?[/QUOTE]
The second email is who he's quoting. (Not agreeing with him, just pointing that out).
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52611968]Who are you quoting? Who are you arguing with? I don't think anyone so far has said anything like this.[/QUOTE]
that quote was in the response email on the right.
not that im trying to take any sides, just wanted to point it out
[editline]25th August 2017[/editline]
wtf trek
[QUOTE=Nebukadnezzer;52611925]but it's not, a fit person does simply look better and more professional than a fat person[/QUOTE]
This is without a doubt the single stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard
Fat people are unprofessional now? Are we just going to pretend Pavarotti was unprofessional, despite being at the TOP of his profession?
[QUOTE=Trekintosh;52612011]The second email is who he's quoting. (Not agreeing with him, just pointing that out).[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah. I read that but that line didn't stick. The rest of his post ("let's not pretend..") sounded like it was leveled at other users here, not the second email.
[QUOTE=Nebukadnezzer;52611925]"it's a personal opinion that fit people are more attractive"
but it's not, a fit person does simply look better and more professional than a fat person
yeah they could have delivered their message better in a hundred different ways, but let's not pretend that fat people are healthy and all just because the message was crass and rude.[/QUOTE]
This has been a real bumper year for worst post contenders.
[QUOTE]"We sincerely apologize for any embarrassment/harassment that you may experience from media representatives or other individuals/parties [B]as a result of misconstrued/malicious allegations and extremely negative/destructive/evil intent,[/B]" it read.[/QUOTE]
Even their apology has a "I'm sorry you feel that way" Bullshit vibe to it.
A friend of mine is an opera singer and she had applied to this place a few times, and they were constantly asking for her dress size before they'd actually send over the contract. She refused, asking them why it was important and they basically just rescinded.
I thought it was going to be the brass section doing something like this:
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCjrimmabvA[/media]
Man, the absolute last profession you should mock fat people for being is fucking vocalists.
Fat people got amazing diaphragms, and it ends up making excellent singing voices in many cases. My sister-in-law is an incredibly talented singer with a gorgeous voice, and she's very much on the heavy side of things.
[QUOTE=snookypookums;52612212]Even their apology has a "I'm sorry you feel that way" Bullshit vibe to it.
A friend of mine is an opera singer and she had applied to this place a few times, and they were constantly asking for her dress size before they'd actually send over the contract. She refused, asking them why it was important and they basically just rescinded.[/QUOTE]
It's written out with so many slashes that it's like they just said, "Here's a multiple choice apology. Circle the word that most applies to you."
According to the source this has gone over so badly it's killed a company.
[QUOTE=Trekintosh;52612417]Fat people got amazing diaphragms, and it ends up making excellent singing voices in many cases. My sister-in-law is an incredibly talented singer with a gorgeous voice, and she's very much on the heavy side of things.[/QUOTE]
There's a reason so many 19th century operas (and the cartoons mocking them) used larger men and women as vocalists.
[img]https://i.cbc.ca/1.4260766.1503595595!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/sheraton-cadwell-group.jpg[/img]
This is apparently one of the ladies who was targeted, which makes this email even more of a joke. You have to be a real top-grade cunt to take issue with this, let alone be openly hostile over it
[quote]"The first thing that came to my mind when I read it was, 'Is this directed towards me?'" she said. "In their response, they said it was a privilege and pleasure to have me in their company and if I could re-read the text in red ... and essentially they sent the same email back to me and highlighted some points."
[img]https://i.cbc.ca/1.4260758.1503595427!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_940/orchestra-email.jpg[/img][/quote]
Yeah, this has fuckall to do with professional standards, and everything to do with management being major dickheads for no reason
She's not even [I]fat[/I]. That's ridiculous
The way the email described it I was picturing morbidly obese women in tight clothing, not some disputably overweight woman in a rather normal dress.
"Eww! That voice is too fat! The tone is too flabby, the resonance far too high in cholesterol. Take it away, ewww!"
Fat shaming is already stupid enough, but this takes it up a notch.
[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;52612024]This is without a doubt the single stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard
Fat people are unprofessional now? Are we just going to pretend Pavarotti was unprofessional, despite being at the TOP of his profession?[/QUOTE]
for calling my post dumb, you sure seem to lack basic reading comprehension skills!
A fit, healthy person looks MORE professional than a fat person. Quote, MORE. Not that a fat person CAN'T look professional, but the same person will look more professional if they are healthy compared to if they are obese.
[QUOTE=snookypookums;52612212]Even their apology has a "I'm sorry you feel that way" Bullshit vibe to it.
A friend of mine is an opera singer and she had applied to this place a few times, and they were constantly asking for her dress size before they'd actually send over the contract. She refused, asking them why it was important and they basically just rescinded.[/QUOTE]
Uh, to take the measurements and prepare the dress beforehand?
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52625077]Uh, to take the measurements and prepare the dress beforehand?[/QUOTE]
Big difference between making it the deciding factor before giving her the acceptance offer vs. a formality once the contract's actually signed.
[editline]29th August 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=markg06;52612679]According to the source this has gone over so badly it's killed a company.[/QUOTE]
From my opera singer friend, it's also sent a lot of the staff running scared because now even the people employed by said orchestra are at risk of being summarily "blacklisted" just for their involvement. She offers me insight into the world of opera and stuff - apparently, this was such a big shitstorm in their small community that some of them might have difficulty finding gigs in Toronto again as a result.
The perception being that by being selected for it, they were also privy and silently agreed with the management's policy on "no fatties".
[QUOTE=Nebukadnezzer;52625059]for calling my post dumb, you sure seem to lack basic reading comprehension skills!
A fit, healthy person looks MORE professional than a fat person. Quote, MORE. Not that a fat person CAN'T look professional, but the same person will look more professional if they are healthy compared to if they are obese.[/QUOTE]
For as much as you are ranting and raving about us not understanding you, you sure aren't explaining how in the hell being fat makes you less professional looking.
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