China increases solar power output by 80% in three months - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE]China electricity output from photovoltaic plants rose 80 per cent in the first quarter after the world’s biggest solar power market increased installed capacity. Solar power generation rose to 21.4 billion kilowatt-hours in the three months ending 31 March from a year earlier, the National Energy Administration said on Thursday in a statement on its website. China added 7.21 gigawatts of solar power during the period, boosting its total installed capacity to almost 85 gigawatts, the NEA said. [/QUOTE] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/china-solar-power-output-increase-80-per-cent-three-months-renewable-energy-source-a7719021.html[/url]

They have been producing a stupidly high portion of the solar cells ever made anyway, they just had to stop exporting it all and install some locally with the enormous supply already available :v: It's heartwarming in the sense that it's a bit of a display of how accessible and feasible large scale shift towards renewables is, once the right people decide it needs to finally happen.

China being undemocratic does make it easier for them to implement changes. Here in the west we first need to have a lenghty discussion before we can actually get to problem-solving.

[QUOTE=Black Pete;52194185]China being undemocratic does make it easier for them to implement changes. Here in the west we first need to have a lenghty discussion before we can actually get to problem-solving.[/QUOTE] If only those were lengthy, but constructive discussions, but no, 90% of the time is just them fighting each other and wasting everyone's time. We get opposition trying to sabotage the changes from the government even when they are actually good. Government refusing to accept good amendments made by the opposition for no reason. Then after elections the new government trying to revoke stuff from the last one, just because it wasn't them who made the law... It is a very inefficient system when you just need things to be done.

[QUOTE=Black Pete;52194185]China being undemocratic does make it easier for them to implement changes. Here in the west we first need to have a lenghty discussion before we can actually get to problem-solving.[/QUOTE] on the flipside, if the chinese state wants to demolish your entire home town and plough a highway through it or build a dam and flood it, and force you to move someplace else you don't get a single say in the matter at all it also means that lots of bad changes get forced through in addition to the good ones. for the most part it's not ended well in china and if such a bad decision enacted on a massive scale turns out to be a fuckup.... then you're going to have very big problems

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52194730]on the flipside, if the chinese state wants to demolish your entire home town and plough a highway through it or build a dam and flood it, and force you to move someplace else you don't get a single say in the matter at all it also means that lots of bad changes get forced through in addition to the good ones. for the most part it's not ended well in china and if such a bad decision enacted on a massive scale turns out to be a fuckup.... then you're going to have very big problems[/QUOTE] i mean we did the same thing with private pipelines though. the paultry payment for land is usually a fraction of the value that it is worth

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52194730]on the flipside, if the chinese state wants to demolish your entire home town and plough a highway through it or build a dam and flood it, and force you to move someplace else you don't get a single say in the matter at all [/QUOTE] Ah, so pretty much like playing Cities:Skylines, or any city sim for that matter.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52194730]on the flipside, if the chinese state wants to demolish your entire home town and plough a highway through it or build a dam and flood it, and force you to move someplace else you don't get a single say in the matter at all it also means that lots of bad changes get forced through in addition to the good ones. for the most part it's not ended well in china and if such a bad decision enacted on a massive scale turns out to be a fuckup.... then you're going to have very big problems[/QUOTE] Many (most?) of the west countries declare legal circumstances under which it's okay to just repossess property of people in sake of a crucial piece of infrastructure. It's admittedly probably with a much more generous default compensation and quite difficult to do, so avoided if possible, but it's not like there's a systemic distinction between what's possible and what's impossible, there. And it's not like privately decided, market driven decisions never turn out to be wrong and a large scale fuckup. Mind me I am glad to be able to Not Live In China and I am not proposing it's time to nationalise everything yesterday, but it seems weird to try argue how badly things work specifically under a story of pretty significant success of their system.

[QUOTE=Black Pete;52194185]China being undemocratic does make it easier for them to implement changes. Here in the west we first need to have a lenghty discussion before we can actually get to problem-solving.[/QUOTE] or in our case we set back environmentalism a whole decade without any discussion whatsoever but that's more of a problem with greed and stupidity than it is with democracy

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52194730]on the flipside, if the chinese state wants to demolish your entire home town and plough a highway through it or build a dam and flood it, and force you to move someplace else you don't get a single say in the matter at all it also means that lots of bad changes get forced through in addition to the good ones. for the most part it's not ended well in china and if such a bad decision enacted on a massive scale turns out to be a fuckup.... then you're going to have very big problems[/QUOTE] This happens in most democratic countries anyway. Highways, dams, you name it. Forced acquisition is not uncommon.

And so, the Bitcoin miner wars continue...

[QUOTE=millan;52195169]Many (most?) of the west countries declare legal circumstances under which it's okay to just repossess property of people in sake of a crucial piece of infrastructure. It's admittedly probably with a much more generous default compensation and quite difficult to do, so avoided if possible, but it's not like there's a systemic distinction between what's possible and what's impossible, there. And it's not like privately decided, market driven decisions never turn out to be wrong and a large scale fuckup. Mind me I am glad to be able to Not Live In China and I am not proposing it's time to nationalise everything yesterday, but it seems weird to try argue how badly things work specifically under a story of pretty significant success of their system.[/QUOTE] the difference between china and the west is that usually in the United States people can form a large group of protesters and get the help of the media and various other organisations to help them resist such developments (or at least get the proper compensation or to embarrass the government) in china, protesters are usually arrested and bullied, while the media tends to operate in the interests of the state instead of holding it to account. the ability of the chinese state to do these developments without any kind of checks on their power to do so is the major concern here [QUOTE=LAMB SAUCE;52196197]This happens in most democratic countries anyway. Highways, dams, you name it. Forced acquisition is not uncommon.[/QUOTE] it's much harder to do that in a country like the united states than it is in china. forced acquisitions are something more exceptional in countries with a healthy open society (in europe we still have a lot of medieval and roman constructions that are still intact) - whereas the opposite holds true in the more authoritarian china. china has already had a long history of many of these massive projects failing as well, so i don't think that its a particularly great thing either

Democracy would be a lot better if politicians couldn't dispute scientific fact.

[QUOTE=Morgen;52197114]Democracy would be a lot better if politicians couldn't dispute scientific fact.[/QUOTE] i don't think it's very wise to say this in an age where we can't even reproduce most of the scientific papers coming out these days

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52197126]i don't think it's very wise to say this in an age where we can't even reproduce most of the scientific papers coming out these days[/QUOTE] Maybe, just not when there's a massive concencus on an issue.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52197110]the difference between china and the west is that usually in the United States people can form a large group of protesters and get the help of the media and various other organisations to help them resist such developments (or at least get the proper compensation or to embarrass the government) in china, protesters are usually arrested and bullied, while the media tends to operate in the interests of the state instead of holding it to account. the ability of the chinese state to do these developments without any kind of checks on their power to do so is the major concern here it's much harder to do that in a country like the united states than it is in china. forced acquisitions are something more exceptional in countries with a healthy open society (in europe we still have a lot of medieval and roman constructions that are still intact) - whereas the opposite holds true in the more authoritarian china. china has already had a long history of many of these massive projects failing as well, so i don't think that its a particularly great thing either[/QUOTE] Lol it's not hard at all. They just come in and take it, it's their legal right. Protestors mean Jack shit, until it's so big that it threatens their overall popularity, which it rarely ever does.

They idled 2.3 billion kWh worth of production because of their transmission infrastructure. Jesus. That's a lot of wasted energy.

[QUOTE=LAMB SAUCE;52198824]Lol it's not hard at all. They just come in and take it, it's their legal right. Protestors mean Jack shit, until it's so big that it threatens their overall popularity, which it rarely ever does.[/QUOTE] they can still do it, the point is that it's much harder to do it in the west than it is in china a good example of the difference is in scotland, trump wanted to build a multimillion dollar golf course, which required clearing away housing and farms (with support from the scottish government). ultimately he failed to dislodge one of the farmers due to the farmer employing legal help and a massive popular campaign to oppose him in china, if somebody refuses to make way for "progress" they literally build the road or shopping mall around their house and then hire thugs to bully the owners while the news is banned from reporting on the event

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52194730]on the flipside, if the chinese state wants to demolish your entire home town and plough a highway through it or build a dam and flood it, and force you to move someplace else you don't get a single say in the matter at all it also means that lots of bad changes get forced through in addition to the good ones. for the most part it's not ended well in china and if such a bad decision enacted on a massive scale turns out to be a fuckup.... then you're going to have very big problems[/QUOTE] Actually, I'm pretty sure you do get a say in the matter. A few years back a couple refused to move for a highway, so the government demolished all houses except theirs, and built the highway around the building. It was literally in the middle of two lanes, but they weren't forcefully evicted. I'm not saying that's a good option, but if you desperately want to stay in your house, you can. All of their neighbours were compensated with new housing and some money. [t]https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2012/11/the-house-in-the-middle-of-the-street/n01_RTR3AQ12/main_1200.jpg[/t] I didn't look this case up though, so I might not be entirely correct on everything. Still, I'm pretty sure the others were compensated.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52199623]Actually, I'm pretty sure you do get a say in the matter. A few years back a couple refused to move for a highway, so the government demolished all houses except theirs, and built the highway around the building. It was literally in the middle of two lanes, but they weren't forcefully evicted. I'm not saying that's a good option, but if you desperately want to stay in your house, you can. All of their neighbours were compensated with new housing and some money. [t]https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2012/11/the-house-in-the-middle-of-the-street/n01_RTR3AQ12/main_1200.jpg[/t] I didn't look this case up though, so I might not be entirely correct on everything. Still, I'm pretty sure the others were compensated.[/QUOTE] i mentioned this earlier: [quote]in china, if somebody refuses to make way for "progress" they literally build the road or shopping mall around their house and then hire thugs to bully the owners while the news is banned from reporting on the event[/quote] they only really pay lip service. the fact that they ignore you and build the road or shopping mall around your house as if to pretend it isn't there is pretty indicative of their view on the matter plus there's the fact that they operate media blackouts on nail houses since chinese citizens sympathise with them and often end up opposing these big projects when they happen

Near where I live in the UK some guy refused to move for a road being built, now his house is the middle of a roundabout.

[QUOTE=Morgen;52200303]Near where I live in the UK some guy refused to move for a road being built, now his house is the middle of a roundabout.[/QUOTE] I hope a picture of this exists.

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;52201741]I hope a picture of this exists.[/QUOTE] Not the one near me but I guess it's not a unique case [T]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Roundabout_house_-_geograph.org.uk_-_32722.jpg[/t]

Not long ago they finished building that large radio telescope inside a volcano or a meteor crater, I can't remember. It was literally heaven on earth, I feel bad for the people who had to move from there.