Jewish leaders hit out over Iceland’s plans to ban boys’ circumcision - Sensationalist Headlines

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/ytS8fyF.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]Jewish leaders in Europe have slammed a draft law that proposes to ban boys in Iceland from being circumcised. They say the outline legislation — set to be debated in Iceland’s parliament in the coming weeks — would be an attack on Judaism. The proposal has been put forward by Progressive Party MP Silja Dögg Gunnarsdóttir and is backed by several other Icelandic politicians. Circumcising girls has been illegal in Iceland since 2005, but there is no provision for boys, Gunnarsdóttir told Euronews. The bill proposes a six-year prison term for anyone found guilty of “removing part or all of the [child’s] sexual organs”. But religious leaders — including those from the Jewish and Catholic community — have criticised the plans. The Jewish Communities in the Nordic Countries said if passed the law would stop its brethren from establishing themselves in Iceland. “Iceland would be the only country to ban one of the most central, if not the most central rite in the Jewish tradition in modern times,” the letter continued. “But it would not be the first time in the long tradition of the Jewish people. Throughout history, more than one oppressive regime has tried to suppress our people and eradicate Judaism by prohibiting our religious practices. “This letter might be perceived as meddling in Iceland’s internal affairs. And why should we care? The reason is that you are about to attack Judaism in a way that concerns Jews all over the world. If any country with next to no Christian inhabitants would ban a central rite in Christianity, like communion for instance, we are certain that the whole Christian world would react as well.” Gunnarsdóttir said Jewish and Muslim communities were not very big in Iceland but that they were getting more common. She said while circumcisions based on religious grounds were rare, they were not unknown. “I see it as a child protection matter,” Gunnarsdóttir added. “In Iceland we acknowledge the right to believe but we also acknowledge the right and freedom of everyone to choose and have their opinions. “I stand by that and I say people should be allowed to have their beliefs for themselves but you have to draw the line when it’s about other people. Children should also have their own rights for their own beliefs when they are adults.”[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.euronews.com/2018/02/14/jewish-leaders-hit-out-over-iceland-s-plans-to-ban-boys-circumcision"]Source[/URL].

Ban it. I wish I wasn't mutilated before I had a choice.

[quote]They say the outline legislation — set to be debated in Iceland’s parliament in the coming weeks — would be an attack on Judaism. [/quote] Oh fuck off already. The world doesn't revolve around you.

They won't recognize the Armenian genocide but they expect Iceland to give a shit about what they think. They're such adorable snowflakes.

Oh my christ this is retarded

No, don't give babies body mods. Needs to be banned everywhere asap.

I hope it's banned and the rest of the world takes after if you base your religion on mutilating children then maybe you should reconsider your religion

[QUOTE]“This letter might be perceived as meddling in Iceland’s internal affairs. And why should we care? The reason is that you are about to attack Judaism in a way that concerns Jews all over the world. If any country with next to no Christian inhabitants would ban a central rite in Christianity, like communion for instance, we are certain that the whole Christian world would react as well.”[/QUOTE] If the Christian baptism (the closest thing) was done with acid I'd be up for its banishment as well.

[QUOTE]"Throughout history, more than one oppressive regime has tried to suppress our people and eradicate Judaism by prohibiting our religious practices."[/QUOTE] This part pisses me off to no end. This isn't oppression, this is letting boys make the decision on whether they want to be circumcised or not when they're old enough, instead of when they're still an infant and being forced.

[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;53132128]This part pisses me off to no end. This isn't oppression, this is letting boys make the decision on whether they want to be circumcised or not when they're old enough, instead of when they're still an infant and being forced.[/QUOTE] Can't not use the Nazis card

[quote]But it would not be the first time in the long tradition of the Jewish people. Throughout history, more than one oppressive regime has tried to suppress our people and eradicate Judaism by prohibiting our religious practices.[/quote] Yes, because -having your possessions stolen -being rounded up -having your families broken apart and -being starved, worked, and tortured to death is comparable to... -being told to wait until someone's an adult before you can touch their genitals. They can fuck right off with this appeal to emotion bullshit.

[QUOTE]“This letter might be perceived as meddling in Iceland’s internal affairs. And why should we care? The reason is that you are about to attack Judaism in a way that concerns Jews all over the world. If any country with next to no Christian inhabitants would ban a central rite in Christianity, like communion for instance, we are certain that the whole Christian world would react as well.”[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but you're comparing eating a piece of bread and a drop of wine to a permanent body modification.

Ban circumcision. It's fucking disgraceful and tragic that it's decided at infancy for these people that they will never be able to dock with their homies when they're older.

[QUOTE=Dr.C;53132477]Ban circumcision. It's fucking disgraceful and tragic that it's decided at infancy for these people that they will never be able to dock with their homies when they're older.[/QUOTE] Now I know what docking is. Do people really do this? Sounds like a great way to get an STD

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;53132091]They won't recognize the Armenian genocide but they expect Iceland to give a shit about what they think. They're such adorable snowflakes.[/QUOTE] Israel != All Judaism

[QUOTE=FlandersNed;53132556]Israel != All Judaism[/QUOTE] I missed "Jewish leaders in Europe" in the OP, you're right. Conflating the two news events was a bit premature.

Let them throw a tantrum for all I care. This shit needs to stop and the fact that there are people still out there advocating for this shit to continue is baffling, even here on Facepunch. I remember that weird Canadian dude who was talking about how circumcised penises are called "premium penises", at least in his world. Too bad I can't remember his username. :v:

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;53132251]I'm sorry but you're comparing eating a piece of bread and a drop of wine to a permanent body modification.[/QUOTE] I find it even funnier when you consider the fact priests give children grape juice and not wine during communion because they're actually willing to twist their religion just a little bit in order to not hurt kids.

[QUOTE=halfer;53132529]Now I know what docking is. Do people really do this? Sounds like a great way to get an STD[/QUOTE] Did you have a similar reaction when you first figured out what intercourse is or do you really think docking is somehow more likely to transmit STD's?

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;53132645]Did you have a similar reaction when you first figured out what intercourse is or do you really think docking is somehow more likely to transmit STD's?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure their point is that you can't wear protection if "docking", not that it's somehow more likely to transmit STDs otherwise?

[QUOTE=Last or First;53132210]Yes, because -having your possessions stolen -being rounded up -having your families broken apart and -being starved, worked, and tortured to death is comparable to... -being told to wait until someone's an adult before you can touch their genitals. They can fuck right off with this appeal to emotion bullshit.[/QUOTE] a lot of the time, persecution of jews started with a simple banning of circumcision and kosher slaughter. thing is with circumcision is that it's literally the base of being a Jewish male, you cannot be a religious jewish male without it you really cant ban this practice without banning all jews from your country or somehow forcing Judaism to change its rules and that wont happen all these threads end up in a circlejerk about how circumcision is fucked up

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53132862]a lot of the time, persecution of jews started with a simple banning of circumcision and kosher slaughter. thing is with circumcision is that it's literally the base of being a Jewish male, you cannot be a religious jewish male without it you really cant ban this practice without banning all jews from your country or somehow forcing Judaism to change its rules and that wont happen all these threads end up in a circlejerk about how circumcision is fucked up[/QUOTE] Ok, and? Kids shouldn't be forced into a specific religion either just like they shouldn't be having parts of their body removed or altered for purely cosmetic/religious reasons.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53132862]a lot of the time, persecution of jews started with a simple banning of circumcision and kosher slaughter. thing is with circumcision is that it's literally the base of being a Jewish male, you cannot be a religious jewish male without it you really cant ban this practice without banning all jews from your country or somehow forcing Judaism to change its rules and that wont happen all these threads end up in a circlejerk about how circumcision is fucked up[/QUOTE] First of all, let's not pretend that Judaism is [I]so strict[/I] as a religion that missing the tip of your dick is the only thing which identifies you as a Jewish male. You've said yourself on numerous discussions before that a lot of practices in Judaism are actually based on loopholes, and the use of these loopholes is tolerated with the justification that they were put there on purpose by your god in order to be utilized. I could for instance repeat a few things you have cited such as the fact Jewish men aren't supposed to shave but can use electric razors, or how certain specific sects have all the women completely shave off their head and wear wigs in order to exploit a similar loophole. Reinterpreting certain aspects of the religion in order to work around a ban on circumcision would not be as cataclysmic as you claim considering this religion's ability to adapt. Second, and perhaps this is far more important, the ban only applies to children who cannot make the decision themselves: the point is to allow more people to effectively choose what to believe without suffering any sort of significant changes to their body prior to their ability, as adults, to make the decision on their own. And while I am sure that circumcision near birth is more convenient, it doesn't mean that a boy cannot be circumcised at a later date, when they are more grown up and, although not necessarily adults, far more capable of deciding whether they want to go through. Since the Bar Mitzvah is at 13 years of age you could always delay this procedure up to that point. As for the part about circumcision being fucked up, it is when you're forcing it upon individuals with no actual means to refuse or easily reverse it, not for years to come and only retroactively. The problem is with consent, not with the act itself. This is the reason why people are okay with, say, baptisms but not with circumcision. One involves splashing a bit of water. The other involves permanent body modifications which will change some aspect of that boy's life that they perhaps would have preferred to not see changed.

Woo, go Iceland, fighting the good fight that we shouldn't have to fight in the first place.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53132862]you really cant ban this practice without banning all jews from your country or somehow forcing Judaism to change its rules and that wont happen[/QUOTE] can you tell me why circumsision is so important to judaism in the first place? why is it required in order to be a jew? how can one with foreskin be any less of a jew than someone without? why is this a hill you're set to die on? a lot of religion do actually encourage practices that are considered illegal in many countries. how many gays are being stoned in Iceland at the moment? which religions encourage the killing of gays, and why is it that they aren't given a complete blanket ban? this statement simply makes no sense to me.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53132862]a lot of the time, persecution of jews started with a simple banning of circumcision and kosher slaughter. thing is with circumcision is that it's literally the base of being a Jewish male, you cannot be a religious jewish male without it you really cant ban this practice without banning all jews from your country or somehow forcing Judaism to change its rules and that wont happen all these threads end up in a circlejerk about how circumcision is fucked up[/QUOTE] Maybe it's time for Jews to stop mutilating babies then. That's as simple as it is.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53132862]all these threads end up in a circlejerk about how circumcision is fucked up[/QUOTE]because it is???

Tbh I don't think banning it would be a great idea. There is no law against circumcision of boys here in Norway, but you wouldn't always get medical help for it because of the weird wording in the law on circumcision (It seems to only affect girls, but some say it affects both sexes). A two weeks old baby died a few years back and since 2015, hospitals are obligated to carry out the procedure. The thing is that, if it's banned, Jews, Muslims, other religions and traditionalists who practice circumcision will just continue the practice in secret, without proper equipment and knowledge which would just endanger kids even more. The practice needs to be phased out, that's for sure, but banning it isn't the way to do it I feel.

This isn't so much an attack on Judaism as it is an attack on the moronic unfounded belief that mutilating your child's genitals before they are old enough to understand symbolises a covenant with your imaginary friend. Just because you bring imaginary beings and tradition into it doesn't excuse this sick non-consensual act of conscious child abuse.

[QUOTE=black_tech;53133723]Tbh I don't think banning it would be a great idea. There is no law against circumcision of boys here in Norway, but you wouldn't always get medical help for it because of the weird wording in the law on circumcision (It seems to only affect girls, but some say it affects both sexes). A two weeks old baby died a few years back and since 2015, hospitals are obligated to carry out the procedure. The thing is that, if it's banned, Jews, Muslims, other religions and traditionalists who practice circumcision will just continue the practice in secret, without proper equipment and knowledge which would just endanger kids even more. The practice needs to be phased out, that's for sure, but banning it isn't the way to do it I feel.[/QUOTE] I do feel like banning it is the first step to solve it, it's not the only thing you can do though. Maybe investing into educating muslim/jewish groups about the dangers of circumcision, the issues that it presents with kids and their right to not have their body irreversibly altered until they are adults, etc.