A majority of Americans want to preserve Confederate monuments: Reuters/Ipsos poll - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote]NEW YORK (Reuters) - A majority of Americans think Confederate monuments should be preserved in public spaces, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll, a view that is at odds with efforts in many cities to remove them. The Aug. 18-21 poll found that 54 percent of adults said Confederate monuments "should remain in all public spaces" while 27 percent said they "should be removed from all public spaces." Another 19 percent said they "don't know." Responses to the poll were sharply split along racial and party lines, however, with whites and Republicans largely supportive of preservation. Democrats and minorities were more likely to support removal. Cities across the United States are debating what to do with hundreds of statues, plaques and other monuments to the slave-holding Confederacy. Some monuments already have been removed this year in cities like New Orleans and Baltimore. The poll also found that the public was almost evenly divided over the deadly "Unite the Right" rally that was called to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee in Charlottesville, Virginia. ... according to the poll, 31 percent of Americans described the rally as "an even mix" of rioting and intimidation by white supremacists and left-wing counter-protesters, a viewpoint that roughly lines up with Trump's comments. Another 28 percent saw the white supremacists as the aggressors and 10 percent mostly blamed the left-wing counter-protesters. The remaining 32 percent said "other" or "don't know." The Reuters/Ipsos poll was conducted online in English throughout the United States, gathering responses from 2,149 people, including 874 Democrats and 763 Republicans. It has a credibility interval, a measure of accuracy, of 2 percentage points for the entire group and 4 percentage points for the Democrats and Republicans.[/quote] [url]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-protests-poll-idUSKCN1B12EG[/url] Kinda sad to know that violence and the threat of it is what really drives this change to monuments, and not a backing electorate in a democratic society.

No link to the poll in question?

A national poll isn't probably the most representative of the issue of removing statues. Other than the fact that most statues are still standing, the issue should be looked at on a more local level, since the statues more concern those living in the city, rather than those in the next state or even just the next city over. So you can't really say the decisions have no democratic backing without looking at the polls in the cities where the statues were removed.

[QUOTE=Tinter;52607840]A national poll isn't probably the most representative of the issue of removing statues. Other than the fact that most statues are still standing, the issue should be looked at on a more local level, since the statues more concern those living in the city, rather than those in the next state or even just the next city over. So you can't really say the decisions have no democratic backing without looking at the polls in the cities where the statues were removed.[/QUOTE] Completely agree, but I think this national average still says alot.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52607850]Completely agree, but I think this national average still says alot.[/QUOTE] I don't think it says any more than the fact that it's not many people who want to remove statues, but it's not like this wasn't already clear with the fact that not many statues have been removed in the grand scheme of things.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52607850]Completely agree, but I think this national average still says alot.[/QUOTE] I'm not trying to be contrarian just for the sake of it when I say that I don't think it does The poll has only two options, either "should remain in all public spaces" or "should be removed from all public spaces" I'm someone who'd generally say they should be removed. I think the culture surrounding a lot of them is disgusting. But I support doing it on a case-by-case basis, because not all of them carry the same connotations, and plenty are powerful pieces, both historically and artistically. I'd probably go with "remain" or "don't know", even though neither one really describes my opinion

I think the poll is too general for the reasons Zukriuchen said but I also think the specific question is probably not the best choice as well. I think if there were an option to move them to a museum, for example, you'd see a very significant chunk of the people who chose "they should remain in all public spaces" would likely vote for that instead. And you'd probably see a fair chunk of those who polled for them to be removed change to that option as well.

I mean I don't know why there should be standing monuments to the people who fought against the notion of equality and tore the country apart, like put them in a museum and honor the lives lost but glorification isn't really needed.

I'd count putting them in museums as "remaining in public spaces", so that's probably what I would've voted for. But I don't want them just out and about in parks or on streets where there isn't any historical context. This poll is a little too vague imo.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52607912]I'm not trying to be contrarian just for the sake of it when I say that I don't think it does The poll has only two options, either "should remain in all public spaces" or "should be removed from all public spaces" I'm someone who'd generally say they should be removed. I think the culture surrounding a lot of them is disgusting. But I support doing it on a case-by-case basis, because not all of them carry the same connotations, and plenty are powerful pieces, both historically and artistically. I'd probably go with "remain" or "don't know", even though neither one really describes my opinion[/QUOTE] By the same token, I'd vote that they should all remain, while understanding that local municipalities might have a majority of people who disagree, and I don't think it's right for my say to override theirs. They live where the statues are; I don't. So I think they should remain public, but don't mind if other people move them as long as it's legal. Thus if I was given this poll I'd vote in the affirmative but wouldn't necessarily mind these cities taking down the monuments and moving them elsewhere/into archives if that's what their citizens want. [editline]24th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Tudd;52607694][URL]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-protests-poll-idUSKCN1B12EG[/URL] Kinda sad to know that violence and the threat of it is what really drives this change to monuments, and not a backing electorate in a democratic society.[/QUOTE] The move to remove statues accelerated [I]drastically [/I]after the Unite the Right rally/Nazi march/murder by car. Say what you want about leftist violence, but cities weren't clandestinely removing statues in the middle of the night to avoid Antifa. The behavior of right-wing demonstrators in Charlottesville gave these cities just cause.

I read that the votes change drastically if they ask the question "should the monuments be removed and put in a museum?" It all depends on how they ask the question.

[QUOTE=Pascall;52608028]I'd count putting them in museums as "remaining in public spaces", so that's probably what I would've voted for. But I don't want them just out and about in parks or on streets where there isn't any historical context. This poll is a little too vague imo.[/QUOTE] why? it's not like they're being clearly venerated, they're images of historical figures and it's the job of society to educate us about the past. I would think if you have a monument and a plaque explaining it in a heavily visited park, say, it'll educate more people than just having it in a museum.

Make a dedicated statue garden for them somewhere in D.C. Call it, "The Garden of Losers", because that's [i]technically[/i] what they are.

[QUOTE=Nebukadnezzer;52608202]why? it's not like they're being clearly venerated, they're images of historical figures and it's the job of society to educate us about the past. I would think if you have a monument and a plaque explaining it in a heavily visited park, say, it'll educate more people than just having it in a museum.[/QUOTE] Because not everyone is in the park to be exposed to monuments which depict figures that people may or may not favor being depicted. If you go to a museum, you're there because you expect to see things from history, regardless if the figures depicted be seen in a positive or negative light. You're there to BE educated, most of the time. If I go jogging in the park I'm not really gonna be super excited to see a statue of a confederate soldier smack dab in the middle of it.

[QUOTE=Pascall;52608244]Because not everyone is in the park to be exposed to monuments which depict figures that people may or may not favor being depicted. If you go to a museum, you're there because you expect to see things from history, regardless if the figures depicted be seen in a positive or negative light. You're there to BE educated, most of the time. If I go jogging in the park I'm not really gonna be super excited to see a statue of a confederate soldier smack dab in the middle of it.[/QUOTE] and like 90% of the population has no interest in museums, there's more exposure but really this is what's happening now anyway. i just fail to see what net benefit shoving all of the monuments into museums will have other than preserving them against attack or weathering.

Its easier for people to defend not taking down confederate monuments than it is for them to defend putting them back up in which case what does that tell you about the monuments

[QUOTE=Nebukadnezzer;52608300]and like 90% of the population has no interest in museums, there's more exposure but really this is what's happening now anyway. i just fail to see what net benefit shoving all of the monuments into museums will have other than preserving them against attack or weathering.[/QUOTE] That's the point though, people can choose to be exposed to them in a historical institution like a museum. If they're out in public, people don't get to choose. And not every city is going to go the extra mile to properly designate public monuments with the appropriate historical context. Hell, I'd even be okay with an outdoor public space but if it were specifically created for these statues and monuments, that way it's like "Oh yeah that's the area where they have the statues you can look at" rather than "here's a statue out in front of a hotel for no real reason". I'd just rather them be appropriately placed, not just put in a random public area.

[QUOTE=Flameon;52608308]Its easier for people to defend not taking down confederate monuments than it is for them to defend putting them back up in which case what does that tell you about the monuments[/QUOTE] That they're artifacts of a time passed?

"Preserve" is the operative word. I would love to preserve all of our Confederate monuments... in a museum. They don't belong on a public square.

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;52608207]Make a dedicated statue garden for them somewhere in D.C. Call it, "The Garden of Losers", because that's [i]technically[/i] what they are.[/QUOTE] Let's put statues of native americans in there while we're at it. They too are technically losers. The civil war was a war of brothers. No solider would have killed their neighbor over just slaves which most people didn't own.

[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;52608549]Let's put statues of native americans in there while we're at it. They too are technically losers. The civil war was a war of brothers. No solider would have killed their neighbor over just slaves which most people didn't own.[/QUOTE] and you wonder why people worry about racism from the trump side. the genocide of a race isn't comparable to a military faction's loss, you absolute lunatic

[QUOTE=Tudd;52607694][url]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-protests-poll-idUSKCN1B12EG[/url] Kinda sad to know that violence and the threat of it is what really drives this change to monuments, and not a backing electorate in a democratic society.[/QUOTE] Yeah, well, Trump lost the majority of the vote by several million people, yet he's still president. So, I guess life just ain't fair. Wave goodbye to the glorification of racial supremacy masquerading as "Tradition."

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52608645]Yeah, well, Trump lost the majority of the vote by several million people, yet he's still president. So, I guess life just ain't fair. Wave goodbye to the glorification of racial supremacy masquerading as "Tradition."[/QUOTE] I would say that is a mildly besmirching (and offtopic) way to reply to this. I actually completely agree this is a local issue as previous users have mentioned (people I tend not to agree with), and that the poll doesn't represent that nuance. But your analogy is just childish, and in this situation with the statues, the main reason municipalities are taking them down is because of the threat of violence. Whether you believe it to be Alt-right rallies to show up around them, that trend has yet to continue like CV, but there are several cases of left-wing activists using force and violence to remove statues already. [url]http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/deadly-rally-accelerates-removal-confederate-statues-49222121[/url] The other reason to remove them in such a fast/undemocratic matter is just to ride this wave of trying to feel good about achieving very little in regards to not appearing racist. Just like any city and it's residents would; they should be able to have input on how their city deals with it's property and public works as much as possible through a democratic way in a democratic society. Which is why I think this poll is revealing. I think it probably hints at that in alot of these places with the statues being removed, they wouldn't be. Or atleast there would be an intense debate to have, but instead some elements and groups want an expedited way of avoiding that process to remove them.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52608566]and you wonder why people worry about racism from the trump side. the genocide of a race isn't comparable to a military faction's loss, you absolute lunatic[/QUOTE] Nice hostile response psychopath. This isn't about "muh statues", this is about people like you with no attachment to American history claiming absolute bullshit about the circumstances for which the war was fought in order to strike a blow at people who have a different political opinion than you. It's probably hard to understand with your narrative but the civil war probably would have occurred with or without the inclusion of slaves. The slave consentration in the south was a factor of pure geography; not because everyone south of the border was a foaming at the mouth racist. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Muh Memeshit (you have only been unbanned for TWO days!)" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

I agree with preserving them, but I also think they should be taken down and moved into museums

A majority of Americans are also white and live nowhere near one of the 700 or so Confederate monuments. [img]https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/casteelambj-monuments-1.png?w=575&h=591&quality=90&strip=info[/img] Don't care what people think nationally. Theres communities where these statues were put up in the 50s and 60s just to taunt them in the face of the Civil Rights movement. No historic relevance other than oppression. Not all of course, but that's one reason why we should all be supporting local communities who choose to take them down.

Keep most of 'em up. Take down the ones that claim the revs were "protecting the Anglo-Saxon heritage of the white man," and put up plaques that were honest about why they fought. They were misled by the slave owning aristocracy into fighting a war against a perceived invader. And for God's sake somebody take down that Forrest statue on the golden horse.

The confederate movement was formally ended 150 years ago with no chance of ever gaining traction again. Why are people getting riled up about men who are long since dead with dreams in the very same coffin. The confederate statues are not to be praised or reviled as they are now. They should stand where they are for us to remember the bloodiest war in American history and that people died on both sides. They should stand to serve as an example of how spiteful humans can be to each other over such small differences May these statues represent the sins of the father and be an example set forth unto the son.

[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;52608750]the civil war probably would have occurred with or without the inclusion of slaves. The slave consentration in the south was a factor of pure geography; not because everyone south of the border was a foaming at the mouth racist.[/QUOTE] It was because of both of those things. The war was technically fought over state rights, since the north-based federal government wished to establish more federal control over the southern states, which included banning slavery. Because the southern economy was based around slave labor (which was also due to geographic factors, mainly that the flat plains of the south meant that their only main economic export was the labor intensive harvest of cotton, which needed slave labor to be economically viable), they needed to declare war on the north to retain their economic power as it was based on slave labor. [url=https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/ap-us-history/period-6/apush-south-after-civil-war/a/the-new-south]After the civil war the southern economy basically crashed until they started moving from an agrarian-based economy towards industrialization.[/url]