Deputies were told to set up ‘perimeter’ around Parkland shooting; Not part of the training - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote]The Broward Sheriff’s Office captain who initially took charge of the chaotic scene at a Parkland high school where 17 people were killed told deputies to form a perimeter around the deadly scene — which they did instead of going in to confront the shooter, according to a partial BSO dispatch log obtained by the Miami Herald. Capt. Jan Jordan, commander of BSO’s Parkland district, gave the order, the log shows, identifying her by her police call sign. [b]Broward Sheriff Scott Israel has said BSO training and nationwide active-shooter procedure call for armed law enforcement officers to confront shooters immediately rather than secure a scene.[/b] The document raises fresh questions about the department’s handling of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on Feb. 14. Before being appointed to command Parkland, Jordan was assigned to BSO’s civil division, which serves subpoenas and injunctions, according to her online biography. She was previously with the Fort Lauderdale Police Department, where Israel also worked. [b]BSO did not directly dispute that Jordan issued a stand-down order. Nor did the agency confirm it.[/b] “If detectives had answers to all of the questions, then there would be no need for an investigation,” BSO spokeswoman Veda Coleman-Wright wrote in an email late Thursday night. Israel has already publicly lambasted one deputy, Scot Peterson, who did not enter a Stoneman Douglas building where Nikolas Cruz mowed down students and staff. Three other BSO deputies were also stationed outside the school, according to CNN. Coral Springs police officers were the first law enforcement to enter the building, about four minutes after Cruz left the school, Israel said on the cable network. Time stamps were not visible on the log of calls to BSO dispatch obtained by the Herald. But a fuller version shared earlier with Fox News shows the shooting — which lasted roughly six minutes — would have been over by the time of Jordan’s order. .... [b]Still, he should have been confronted by deputies as soon as they arrived, Israel has said.[/b] Peterson, who resigned last week but is defending his actions, was trained to have “killed the killer,” Israel has said. BSO has generally refused to answer questions about how the shooting was handled, citing an ongoing internal investigation, and is examining the conduct of its deputies and commanders. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement has also been tasked with investigating. ...[/quote] [url]http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article203015289.html[/url] The it just gets worse with what is coming out surrounding the Police's handling of the perpetrator and the event itself.

The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, but not if the good guy with a gun is afraid of the bad guy with a gun.

[QUOTE=IKTM;53173543]The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, but not if the good guy with a gun is afraid of the bad guy with a gun.[/QUOTE] Heart attacks work too. Or cancer.

I really really have doubts about the intellectual honesty of people who have been arguing that this shows increased security or armed guards will never be able to prevent something like this (those people include my parents). Do you really think that it's impossible for the government to train someone to go into a potential shootout situation? Have you never heard of the military? I think the real point made here is that this is not a job for your average policeman. We need much higher standards. If there were security teams recruited from the military or maybe veteran police officers who were trained for this situation and knew their job was to protect our children, maybe things would have happened differently. Now I don't know if this is all budgetarily feasible, but we have sent armed individuals to invade entire countries with less justification before.

[QUOTE=cis.joshb;53173600]I really really have doubts about the intellectual honesty of people who have been arguing that this shows increased security or armed guards will never be able to prevent something like this (those people include my parents). Do you really think that it's impossible for the government to train someone to go into a potential shootout situation? Have you never heard of the military? I think the real point made here is that this is not a job for your average policeman. We need much higher standards. If there were security teams recruited from the military or maybe veteran police officers who were trained for this situation and knew their job was to protect our children, maybe things would have happened differently. Now I don't know if this is all budgetarily feasible, but we have sent armed individuals to invade entire countries with less justification before.[/QUOTE] Sounds like you're just talking about SWAT teams

That used to be the standard procedure since school shootings were treated like hostage situations. Then Columbine happened and everyone realized what a bad idea it was.

[QUOTE=cis.joshb;53173600]I really really have doubts about the intellectual honesty of people who have been arguing that this shows increased security or armed guards will never be able to prevent something like this (those people include my parents). Do you really think that it's impossible for the government to train someone to go into a potential shootout situation? Have you never heard of the military? I think the real point made here is that this is not a job for your average policeman. We need much higher standards. If there were security teams recruited from the military or maybe veteran police officers who were trained for this situation and knew their job was to protect our children, maybe things would have happened differently. Now I don't know if this is all budgetarily feasible, but we have sent armed individuals to invade entire countries with less justification before.[/QUOTE] are you saying that schools need patrols of ex-military or high ranking police officers?

[QUOTE=laserpanda;53173634]That used to be the standard procedure since school shootings were treated like hostage situations. Then Columbine happened and everyone realized what a bad idea it was.[/QUOTE] It was standard procedure until very recently for officers to wait for backup and form a group before going in. The "go in as you arrive and confront the shooter asap" is a fairly recent thing.

[QUOTE=Anderan;53173712]It was standard procedure until very recently for officers to wait for backup and form a group before going in. The "go in as you arrive and confront the shooter asap" is a fairly recent thing.[/QUOTE] Not according to this 2013 article. [quote]Pierson legally purchased the shotgun Dec. 6, Robinson said. Pierson purchased the ammunition the morning of the shootings. He managed to ignite a Molotov cocktail inside the school library before he killed himself as a school security officer, a deputy sheriff, closed in, Robinson said. That officer's aggressive response prevented more casualties, Robinson said. [b]It's a tactic adopted nationwide after the Columbine shootings, in which first responders cordoned off the school before pursuing two student gunmen inside.[/b] The two killed 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves in 1999 at a high school about eight miles from Arapahoe.[/quote] [url]http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/16/nation/la-na-nn-coroner-colorado-school-shooter-killed-himself-with-a-shotgun-blast-20131216[/url]

[QUOTE=Tudd;53173717]Not according to this 2013 article. [URL]http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/16/nation/la-na-nn-coroner-colorado-school-shooter-killed-himself-with-a-shotgun-blast-20131216[/URL][/QUOTE] I work for a university security department and according to the training we've been through it's a fairly recent thing. I can't remember which recent shooting spurred it but it was being spearheaded by I think UCLA. Mind the tactic didn't involve setting up a paremeter, it was just waiting for a few other officers to arrive and going in as a team as opposed to going in solo.