US notifies world of possible ‘safeguard’ tariffs on imported solar cells, effective last week - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE]25 May 2017, the United States notified the WTO’s Committee on Safeguards that it initiated on 17 May 2017 a safeguard investigation on crystalline silicon photovoltaic cells.’ The official filing can be found here. There’s a good chance any solar panels imported to the United States after these date will have a tariff added, if the USA – on or before September 22nd – decides solar panel imports have harmed domestic solar panel makers. The US International Trade Comission will rule whether solar panel manufacturers Suniva and SolarWorld have suffered ‘serious injury’ as a result of global competition. US consumers already pay increased prices for any solar cells or modules from China. Suniva has requested that President Trump impose a four-year minimum import price on PV modules and cells – starting in year one at US$0.78 per watt for modules and $0.40 for cells.[/QUOTE] [url]https://electrek.co/2017/05/29/us-notifies-world-of-possible-safeguard-tariffs-on-imported-solar-cells-effective-last-week/[/url]

What a load of *

Fuck off already

Oh come on already. You're already fucking us over trying to pull out of the climate agreement, now you have to set us back even further and push back renewable energy efforts? Could this administration be any more blatantly [B]obvious[/B] as to who's filling their wallets?

[QUOTE]There’s a good chance any solar panels imported to the United States after these date will have a tariff added, if the USA – on or before September 22nd – decides solar panel imports have harmed domestic solar panel makers.[/QUOTE] You know what else hurts solar panel makers? The fucking GOP trying to insure Big Oil for the future. Maybe if you didn't do that, we wouldn't be losing the renewable race, you fucking idiots.

We did this but it's a generic tax on all imports, As a result games workshop models went up in price.

i find this interesting because it doesn't seem like a case of "big oil trying to shut down alternative energies", rather some actual US solar manufacturers themselves having trouble competing with the global market and attempting to gain an edge through tariffs

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;52290458]i find this interesting because it doesn't seem like a case of "big oil trying to shut down alternative energies", rather some actual US solar manufacturers themselves having trouble competing with the global market and attempting to gain an edge through tariffs[/QUOTE] imo tariffs are kind of necessary. Other countries have lower standards of living, lower environmental regulation, lower worker pay/safeguards. Unless you want to lower your regulations and standards to compete with that (race to bottom) you need something in place to stop yourself getting screwed over. Like china being mega pollution city and "we put nets over our windows to stop our workers from commiting suicide instead of doing something about the literally shitty (see workers being forced to wear nappies) working conditions" pioneer. How can you compete with that? Imo tariffs and stuff being more expensive beats trying to compete with that. It might even disincentivise it, not saying it will, but if China is faced with choice between struggling to sell stuff and increasing regulations they'll go with what makes them money. Less tariffs only works between countries with similar standards and regulations, or in cases where 1 country cannot efficiently produce a resource (like europe doesn't have much in the way of rare earth metal extraction)

[QUOTE=OneWingedAngel8;52290302]Could this administration be any more blatantly [B]obvious[/B] as to who's filling their wallets?[/QUOTE] Probably not the [i]solar panel companies[/i] that asked for this measure to protect the American alternative energy industry but I'm guessing you didn't read past the headline.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;52290508]imo tariffs are kind of necessary. Other countries have lower standards of living, lower environmental regulation, lower worker pay/safeguards. Unless you want to lower your regulations and standards to compete with that (race to bottom) you need something in place to stop yourself getting screwed over. Like china being mega pollution city and "we put nets over our windows to stop our workers from commiting suicide instead of doing something about the literally shitty (see workers being forced to wear nappies) working conditions" pioneer. How can you compete with that? Imo tariffs and stuff being more expensive beats trying to compete with that. It might even disincentivise it, not saying it will, but if China is faced with choice between struggling to sell stuff and increasing regulations they'll go with what makes them money. Less tariffs only works between countries with similar standards and regulations, or in cases where 1 country cannot efficiently produce a resource (like europe doesn't have much in the way of heavy metal extraction)[/QUOTE] Solar panels from China are already taxed. This is requesting them being on all imports from all countries. Also the "domestic" solar company requesting this is mostly owned by Chinese investors.

[QUOTE=Morgen;52290726]Solar panels from China are already taxed. This is requesting them being on all imports from all countries. Also the "domestic" solar company requesting this is mostly owned by Chinese investors.[/QUOTE] Doesn't the article suggest a "minimum price" on solar panels? Which I think is better than arbitrarily taxing all stuff. IMO (I don't know shit about international trade deals/rules) it should be done on a case by case basis - so if you're trading with a country with similar regs then have less or no tariffs on that product.

[QUOTE=Sims_doc;52290353]We did this but it's a generic tax on all imports, As a result games workshop models went up in price.[/QUOTE] You just gave me this mental image of a bunch of economists all puzzled about how [I]that[/I] was the only effect.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;52290458]i find this interesting because it doesn't seem like a case of "big oil trying to shut down alternative energies", rather some actual US solar manufacturers themselves having trouble competing with the global market and attempting to gain an edge through tariffs[/QUOTE] This is the whole point of a tariff: To make domestic products more competitive.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;52290914]Doesn't the article suggest a "minimum price" on solar panels? Which I think is better than arbitrarily taxing all stuff. IMO (I don't know shit about international trade deals/rules) it should be done on a case by case basis - so if you're trading with a country with similar regs then have less or no tariffs on that product.[/QUOTE] tariffs aren't done on an ethical basis, and especially not with our current government this is an economic measure to dissuade imports on solar cells, so when shit goes tits up china won't end up having a monopoly. but it's going to happen anyway since china heavily subsidizes green and nuclear energy research and production while half of america still thinks that climate change is a myth. plus chinese investors are sweeping up africa and latin america as trump and his "america first" cronies are trying to bring back american isolationism to defeat the globalist boogeyman, so you can't tax based on countries or even specific company regulations yeah shitty regulations and working conditions do bring prices down, but it's a small piece of the bigger picture [editline]30th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Code3Response;52291113]This is the whole point of a tariff: To make domestic products more competitive.[/QUOTE] oil and coal benefit from this regardless intentions are meaningless in economics when we end up dealing with the effects all the same

Shunfeng International Clean Energy acquired a 63% stake in Suniva in 2015. Genius. They buy a US company, get tariffs on panel imports, have a good position on the US market because of their acquisition, but then they can still keep selling panels made in China on the domestic and European markets.

[QUOTE=Sims_doc;52290353]We did this but it's a generic tax on all imports, As a result games workshop models went up in price.[/QUOTE] In fairness, when [B]DON'T[/B] those ever go up in price?

I hate this...

[QUOTE=nikomo;52291227]Shunfeng International Clean Energy acquired a 63% stake in Suniva in 2015. Genius. They buy a US company, get tariffs on panel imports, have a good position on the US market because of their acquisition, but then they can still keep selling panels made in China on the domestic and European markets.[/QUOTE] Pretty clever from a business standpoint.

Fuck off, solar panels are already extremely overpriced. Fuck you and your mile wide wallets trying to decide what's better.

On one hand it's nice to protect domestic solar panel manufacturing, on the other hand it will set the prices of panels back by several years, while creating much less of an incentive for American manufacturers to figure out how to reduce costs further.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52291754]Why is it nice to protect domestic manufacturing? Are Chinese solar cells less reliable? If American solar manufacturers can't compete with Chinese, unless China is waging a trade war in this sector with subsidies, are tariffs the solution to that problem?[/QUOTE] For no reason really other than job creation.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52291870]You create 5 jobs here, lose 10 elsewhere because tariffs simply hurt the economy.[/QUOTE] Five jobs domestically is better for the economy than 10 jobs internationally

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52291870]You create 5 jobs here, lose 10 elsewhere because tariffs simply hurt the economy.[/QUOTE] This. Who do they expect to end up paying the tariffs in the end? Hint: It's not the companies, they'll just price them up to compensate, passing the increases on to us.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;52291968]This. Who do they expect to end up paying the tariffs in the end? Hint: It's not the companies, they'll just price them up to compensate, passing the increases on to us.[/QUOTE] Hey, it's almost like this would encourage you to buy American-made items instead!

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52293331]You create 5 jobs in Alabama, lose 10 across the States - the hurt I am talking about is not to the world. There is enough market for solar tech, Chinese will carry on while Americans will be hurt.[/QUOTE] How does a tariff remove jobs from within the country placing the tariff?

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52295240]More expensive solar cells -> Less solar application?[/QUOTE] That is not how a tariff works.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52295499]Tariffs wont make items more expensive? [url]https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/tariffs-benefit-few-cost-all[/url][/QUOTE] The economy still will be better because of it. This is entirely about domestic products and why tariffs are in place for lots of goods

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52295540]The economy still will be better because of it. This is entirely about domestic products and why tariffs are in place for lots of goods[/QUOTE] What do you base this belief on?

[QUOTE=_Axel;52295595]What do you base this belief on?[/QUOTE] [URL="http://internationalecon.com/Trade/Tch90/T90-8.php"]Microeconomics.[/URL] This is good for the US solar panel makers and our economy. The only "losers" here are China and the consumer (who will only see a rise in panel cost). It makes sense if the US wants to bolster our energy installation and production while benefiting the economy directly rather than paying a chinese firm to produce and ship in panels.

[QUOTE=KingofBeast;52292158]Hey, it's almost like this would encourage you to buy American-made items instead![/QUOTE] And yet I somehow predict that the tariffs won't be so large as to make them more expensive than domestic cells. Even if they did, here's the thing: When you buy something from China (or "Cheapistan" as I like to call it), you do so knowing that the product is probably not going to last very long, but it *should* at least do the job, and may surprise you with a longer life-span or better quality than you'd expect from that region. If that product suddenly costs as much, if not more, than domestic products due to tariffs, then that isn't a result of "the free market", that's stifling competition. (human rights violations being another issue to content with of course) Basically, if they're going to put tariffs on solar cells, they should damn well put tariffs on everything else if they want to set a positive example, so that other rich people can't continue getting rich by exploiting lax labor and safety regulations in another country so they can re-sell a $1 t-shirt for $60 here in the states.