Say Goodbye To X+Y: Should Community Colleges Abolish Algebra? - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE]Algebra is one of the biggest hurdles to getting a high school or college degree — particularly for students of color and first-generation undergrads. It is also the single most failed course in community colleges across the country. So if you're not a STEM major (science, technology, engineering, math), why even study algebra? That's the argument Eloy Ortiz Oakley, chancellor of the California community college system, made today in an interview with NPR's Robert Siegel. At American community colleges, 60 percent of those enrolled are required to take at least one math course. Most — nearly 80 percent — never complete that requirement. Oakley is among a growing number of educators who view intermediate algebra as an obstacle to students obtaining their credentials — particularly in fields that require no higher level math skills. Their thinking has led to initiatives like Community College Pathways, which strays away from abstract algebra to engage students in real-world math applications.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.npr.org/2017/07/19/538092649/say-goodbye-to-x-y-should-community-colleges-abolish-algebra"]NPR[/URL]

If someone doesn't have the logical skills required to understand algebra, they should not be graduating from high school, let alone an institute of higher learning.

This is a really bad idea. It is baffling that people are actually considering it.

I mean, it really depends on the field someone's hoping to work in. Algebra is essential in some, and unnecessary in others. It's a significant skill schools try to push onto students and yet it's treated apathetically at best and being replaced with retarded shit like common core mathematics at worst. Hell, I was too unskilled at math in general to handle algebra properly in all of its entirety, and thus my high school went lax and just let me slip by special education circumstances in comparison to everyone else; most of whom went into jobs that don't require the more complex parts of algebra and trigonometry. But abolishing algebra altogether is also a retarded idea.

I understand math is a rough time for every growing student, but the thought of throwing away an important curriculum we do need to move up in the world? You might as well forget how to solve simple equations too. Algebra - College + Student = Dumbass I know some jobs don't need this, but it helps to know your numbers for when you might need this.

Honestly algebra should come before or should be alongside arithmetric, or at least everybody should go through it in middle school.' [QUOTE=Vodkavia;52496875]Kind of putting the cart in front of the horse, Algebra is only really a struggle because our education is unfunded and crap ESPECIALLY in poorer areas where racial minorities are economically huddled into.[/QUOTE] Our k-12 system is pretty much the weakest link in our education. So many students wind up in college and uni who really don't belong or need to be there.

In my opinion everything past algebra 2 was retarded. I never could even learn to factor in highschool. I'd imagine I'd fail hard in college algebra.

In my opinion, the importance of algebra in education isn't for the algebra itself. The importance of algebra is that it requires, and as such teaches, abstract thinking, which I feel is a critical skill in [b]any[/b] field. I'd imagine even 18th-century French literature history would require some level of abstract thinking, in things like interpreting phrases no longer in modern use, or whose meaning has changed over the centuries.

[QUOTE=SandvichBL;52496888]In my opinion everything past algebra 2 was retarded. I never could even learn to factor in highschool. I'd imagine I'd fail hard in college algebra.[/QUOTE] reading the curriculum at my college for college algebra it seems to be mostly a repeat of high school algebra 2. STEM people usually skip it entirely with a placement test (your SAT score, or another test.)

College Algebra was one of the biggest wastes of my time in college and this was for a degree in Enterprise Networking (and you can't test out of it). I had to skip a vmware class to take it as well which was a limited time offer. Now here I am at my job building a vmware server, knowing nothing about vmware but at least I can divide polynomials. Just my own anecdotal experience I know. You can argue that it develops critical thinking skills, but by the time your in college its harder to teach people a different approach to thinking. These are skills and knowledge that should be imparted at high school or younger which the education system is failing at.

Algebra is just fucking short-hand why is everyone so scared of it?

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52496901]reading the curriculum at my college for college algebra it seems to be mostly a repeat of high school algebra 2. STEM people usually skip it entirely with a placement test.[/QUOTE] I didn't even have to take a test. My ACT scores placed me into 20-something geometry.

fuck it, just abandon education altogether only nerds need that shit

[QUOTE=Hatley;52496919]Algebra is just fucking short-hand why is everyone so scared of it?[/QUOTE] "I'm good at mathematics and I don't understand why everyone else isn't" [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_anxiety"]Maybe you should do some reading.[/url]

Keep algebra. But Calculus is pure evil.

We need to change how math is taught, don't section it off as "Algebra" or "Trig" or "Calculus" because people get the false assumption that "Nothing I do in here is relevant in other classes." We need to teach it in a way that makes sense, working your way through the sections in a way that makes logical sense, teach calculus stuff that is closely tied with trig stuff at the same time, call it "Math 3" or something like that. [editline]22nd July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=MissingGlitch;52496960]Keep algebra. But Calculus is pure evil.[/QUOTE] Calculus is just Algebra and Trig with extra dimensions.

[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52496956]"I'm good at mathematics and I don't understand why everyone else isn't" [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_anxiety"]Maybe you should do some reading.[/url][/QUOTE] Flat-out removing it is not the cure for mathematical anxiety. That's like sawing off your legs because you stubbed your toe.

Well then it needs to be changed on how it's taught, the vast majority of people don't use algebra past high school, and I barely remember any of it

[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52496982]Well then it needs to be changed on how it's taught, the vast majority of people don't use algebra past high school, and I barely remember any of it[/QUOTE] You use it more than you think, you just don't think "hey, i just did an algebraic function!" when it happens because they are very basic.

The reason it's a requirement probably isn't really for teaching abstract thinking but more for generally increasing scientific and mathematical literacy. Same thing is happening with STEM students where recently they've started being told to take more social sciences and humanities as well along with their main classes.

[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52496956]"I'm good at mathematics and I don't understand why everyone else isn't" [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_anxiety"]Maybe you should do some reading.[/url][/QUOTE] That is not at all what he said.

That's what he heavily implied.

I do reckon people would understand it a lot easier if they're told and shown that it is, at it's core, just a means of shorthand. I helped one of my classmates with his maths last year, and he made more sense of it once I demonstrated that to him. The fact is, it looks far more complex than it actually is, and people shouldn't be so scared of it, because it's just shorthand.

[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52496982]Well then it needs to be changed on how it's taught, the vast majority of people don't use algebra past high school, and I barely remember any of it[/QUOTE] You probably use it without realizing it. It's very important even if you don't think so. [editline]22nd July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=djjkxbox;52496994]But that's what he heavily implied.[/QUOTE] No. It isn't. Even if it was, how do you know? You didn't ask. You said it was, so you're speaking for someone else based on how you interpreted something.

[QUOTE=Hatley;52496919]Algebra is just fucking short-hand why is everyone so scared of it?[/QUOTE] For me, math in school has always been the worst. And I'm not convinced I hate math itself, because I use it all the time with programming in private. The difference is the excessive and arbitrary need to memorize. In one semester of college-level trigonometry, I recall having to memorize the cross product, the dot product, other functions pertaining to vectors, the unit circle, the names of shapes of polar graphs, formulas for converting from rectangular coordinates to polar coordinates and back... why? Personally, I think a mind on mathematics is understanding how to use these functions, why these functions work, and what to expect from them. Instead, much of math all throughout high-school and towards the beginning of college was memorizing formulas. This is in contrast to programming, which I find to be incredibly similar. For programming, I generally have references open and build up my knowledge of what I can do and why it works as opposed to maintaining a hellish focus on specific ordering of parameters. I know I can replace a string in JavaScript and I know what it's doing internally, and I don't see harm in checking out the [url=https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/String/replace]API[/url] if I don't remember. Often times, memorization ends up happening as a result of routine, which makes me feel like memorization isn't important. So, when it comes to math, why do I need to memorize the formula for a parabola? If I know how to use it, I know the relationships between the variables, and I know the necessary variables, why is it important for me to know y = (x - h)^2 + k and why is it a mortal error to ever refer to a textbook or notes during a test? If the fear is that people can just going without knowing anything that has to do with math, I guarantee that someone who hasn't worked with complex formulas enough to even approach some of the complicated calculus questions I've come across will run out of time before achieving an acceptable score. It just doesn't happen. Calculus is where math has been far more focused on why formulas work as opposed to simply plugging stuff in, and that's what math should be like from the very beginning, or at least the start of high school!

[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52496994]But that's what he heavily implied.[/QUOTE] Not really, algebra IS really simple concept-wise. People aren't failing algebra because it's something intrinsically out of their grasp, it's going to be because they either can't be arsed, or were let down in the past. This can happen with anything really, for example you can be put off of playing music easily if your parents set you up with a poor teacher as a child practicing on some $40 guitar that sounds like shit off of craigslist. Same applies with math.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52496998]You probably use it without realizing it. It's very important even if you don't think so. [editline]22nd July 2017[/editline] No. It isn't. Even if it was, how do you know? You didn't ask. You said it was, so you're speaking for someone else based on how you interpreted something.[/QUOTE] I'm sure I could show that quote to plenty of people and they would think the same, but whatever, it's interpretation like you said, the general vibe is that he's being a bit short-sighted to think that it's nothing to be scared of for everyone

[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52497015]I'm sure I could show that quote to plenty of people and they would think the same, but whatever, it's interpretation like you said, the general vibe is that he's being a bit short-sighted to think that it's nothing to be scared of for everyone[/QUOTE] It [B]IS[/B] nothing to be scared of Doing math isn't going to fucking hurt you, so being scared of it is matter of factly, stupid. Yes, I also suffered from math anxiety as a kid, and felt stress from it. You're however, overblowing it.

[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52497015]I'm sure I could show that quote to plenty of people and they would think the same, but whatever, it's interpretation like you said, the general vibe is that he's being a bit short-sighted to think that it's nothing to be scared of for everyone[/QUOTE] Sure, maybe I worded it poorly. But maybe you were also too eager to assume I meant the worst. Either way, this shit is fucking irrelevant.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52497012]Not really, algebra IS really simple concept-wise. People aren't failing algebra because it's something intrinsically out of their grasp, it's going to be because they either can't be arsed, or were let down in the past. This can happen with anything really, for example you can be put off of playing music easily if your parents set you up with a poor teacher as a child practicing on some $40 guitar that sounds like shit off of craigslist. Same applies with math.[/QUOTE] I think poor teaching or poor teaching methods is highly to blame, so maybe it just needs a rethink, and people would understand it much better. In the current way it's taught at least in the UK, many people do struggle with it. Maybe not so much in other countries, though