Uber to lose licence to operate in London - Sensationalist Headlines

[t]https://e3.365dm.com/17/06/1096x616/4d4baa0300310d2a0da70435dc8663e1c8174a21b4b0626f1c692840c8357f0d_3972048.jpg?20170921235252[/t] [quote]Uber’s application for a new licence to operate in [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/uk/london"]London[/URL] has been rejected on the basis that the company is not a “fit and proper” operator.The current licence expires on 30 September but [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/technology/uber"]Uber[/URL] has 21 days to appeal and can continue to operate until that process expires.[/quote] [URL]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/22/uber-licence-transport-for-london-tfl[/URL] [media]https://twitter.com/TfL/status/911168235189489669[/media]

I can't believe TFL is allowed to attempt to kill of the competition to black cab drivers like this, making a bunch of people potentially unemployed in the meantime. If you want them to be more accountable, then do that. Don't ruin the thousands of people employed by the service in London, or the many thousands that use the service because it is far cheaper than a black cab, and goes places the cabbies won't go. You can fix it while still allowing it to run.

Isn't the entire problem with Uber that it's set up in such a way that avoids all taxi / public transportation regulations?

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52706887]Isn't the entire problem with Uber that it's set up in such a way that avoids all taxi / public transportation regulations?[/QUOTE] dunno about the US but whenever I've talked with an Uber driver about it they've said they have to go through exactly the same jumps and hoops a regular taxi driver would. Taxi license, Taxi insurance, regular vehicle checks, CRB etc. They just like Uber because they work on their terms and regular cabbies in the UK suck big time. I have no idea where this idea that Uber are some unaccountable unregulated danger zone comes from. I guess it's different in the States.

Not sure about UK but in Russia uber is pretty shit from driver point of view. You basically need to work close to 24/7 in order to get a decent amount of money because price is usually very low and you don't know how much you'll get until you arrive to destination. (I once traveled to other part of the Moscow for ~10$, that's almost 50km/30 miles) And we're not even taking in consideration people who choose "cash" payment method and run away without paying.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52706887]Isn't the entire problem with Uber that it's set up in such a way that avoids all taxi / public transportation regulations?[/QUOTE] In London, you need a "[URL="https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing/private-hire-driver-licence"]private hire licence[/URL]". This is the same licence used by any other taxi service, other than black cabbies in London. Alongside that you need a CRB check and medical. If the TFL has issues with Uber, it's because they have failed to keep up with the times and are listening too hard to the complaints of black cab drivers. Uber has issues, but the TFL is handling it wrong.

Wow the license ends two days before I arrive, not keen on catching the tube during rush hour with my suitcase.. [editline]22nd September 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Megalan;52706894]Not sure about UK but in Russia uber is pretty shit from driver point of view. You basically need to work close to 24/7 in order to get a decent amount of money because price is usually very low and you don't know how much you'll get until you arrive to destination. (I once traveled to other part of the Moscow for ~10$, that's almost 50km/30 miles) And we're not even taking in consideration people who choose "cash" payment method and run away without paying.[/QUOTE] There's a cash payment option in Russia? Sure am glad that it's not an option where I drive. Fuck that for a joke.

It sucks that Taxify also lost its licence in London, because that was pretty much just like Uber, except suited for places with heavy regulation regarding taxis.

[QUOTE=icemaz;52706899]In London, you need a "[URL="https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing/private-hire-driver-licence"]private hire licence[/URL]". This is the same licence used by any other taxi service, other than black cabbies in London. Alongside that you need a CRB check and medical. If the TFL has issues with Uber, it's because they have failed to keep up with the times and are listening too hard to the complaints of black cab drivers. Uber has issues, but the TFL is handling it wrong.[/QUOTE] Black cabs can't even set their prices, they are definitely much more regulated than most taxis. TFL basically left them to rot for years despite playing by the rules while uber scummed their way around. Black cabs have every right to be pissed at TFL since until now they haven't listened to any suggestions to make them more competitive.

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52706928]Black cabs can't even set their prices, they are definitely much more regulated than most taxis. TFL basically left them to rot for years despite playing by the rules while uber scummed their way around. Black cabs have every right to be pissed at TFL since until now they haven't listened to any suggestions to make them more competitive.[/QUOTE] I know, which is why I highlighted black cabs have a different licence compared to other taxi ranks. Uber never scummed there way around, their drivers have the correct licences and checks to be a taxi driver in London. This isn't a business move hurting Uber, it's hurting the people who use Uber as their primary source of income and its frankly irresponsible to just take that mode of income away from thousands of people because the TFL and black cab drivers are angry. Black cab drivers also seem to have no desire to modernise, or even see why people use Uber instead. My partners father is a cab driver, and he dislikes Uber for all the wrong reasons ("Sending money off to some CEO in San Francisco"), and can't see why it's succeeding. It's succeeding because it's cheaper, more reliable and frankly easier than getting a black cab. If the black cab drivers have their own problems, then maybe now is the time to get fixes implemented. But they shouldn't be halting competition because of it, that's kind of fucked up.

I personally have never understood why people use Uber.. my local taxi company will cost me £5 to get to work whilst Uber some how get off on charging between £8-9 for the same journey.

[QUOTE=AncientFryup;52706969]I personally have never understood why people use Uber.. my local taxi company will cost me £5 to get to work whilst Uber some how get off on charging between £8-9 for the same journey.[/QUOTE] It's purely situational. Cheaper for most routes (shorter ones usually I think) - more expensive for some.

[QUOTE=AncientFryup;52706969]I personally have never understood why people use Uber.. my local taxi company will cost me £5 to get to work whilst Uber some how get off on charging between £8-9 for the same journey.[/QUOTE] Uber has always been really convenient (and cheaper) for me on a night out. When you're drunk/tired and don't want to get the bus home. It was handy very recently when I was out with my girlfriend in Central London. We finished an event and it was roughly 12am. We were both tired and didn't want to face spending 1-2 hours getting home via public transport. We got an Uber that was very comfy and the price of the journey was much better compared to what a Black Cab with have been.

The only reason to use Uber was cashless payment and the app. Local taxi firm here now has an app with cashless payments, prebookings and the ability to see where your driver is. And if you use the app you fairly often get priority booking during peak times.

[QUOTE=icemaz;52706947]I know, which is why I highlighted black cabs have a different licence compared to other taxi ranks. Uber never scummed there way around, their drivers have the correct licences and checks to be a taxi driver in London. This isn't a business move hurting Uber, it's hurting the people who use Uber as their primary source of income and its frankly irresponsible to just take that mode of income away from thousands of people because the TFL and black cab drivers are angry. Black cab drivers also seem to have no desire to modernise, or even see why people use Uber instead. My partners father is a cab driver, and he dislikes Uber for all the wrong reasons ("Sending money off to some CEO in San Francisco"), and can't see why it's succeeding. It's succeeding because it's cheaper, more reliable and frankly easier than getting a black cab. If the black cab drivers have their own problems, then maybe now is the time to get fixes implemented. But they shouldn't be halting competition because of it, that's kind of fucked up.[/QUOTE] Their announcement doesn't mention black cab drivers or competition though, and gives a list of completely different reasons for the decision. What's your response to their points in the letter (tweet in OP)?

[QUOTE=Doozle;52707050]The only reason to use Uber was cashless payment and the app. Local taxi firm here now has an app with cashless payments, prebookings and the ability to see where your driver is. And if you use the app you fairly often get priority booking during peak times.[/QUOTE] Local taxi firm here has an app. I used it and set to pay by card. Then the taxi driver came and said it had to be paid by cash. Safe to say I went back to Uber

[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52707070]Their announcement doesn't mention black cab drivers or competition though, and gives a list of completely different reasons for the decision. What's your response to their points in the letter (tweet in OP)?[/QUOTE] They tweeted out the letter the same time they informed Uber of the decision. Does this seem like the actions of an organisation which is being fair, and not totally bending to outside influences and using social media to spin this story? In response to the points in the OP, it's hard for me to comment on that at all as I don't know what they are talking about. I don't know the ins and outs of their internal process in reporting crimes, or getting medical certificates. I don't know what an Enhanced DBS has to do with anything when a DBS check for the private licence is done through a TFL supported service provider. It feels like fear mongering, and as I said Uber has problems which need to be fixed, but you can do that without making 30,000 - 40,000 with this mode of income suddenly disappearing. But as long as the TFL and the Mayor of London get a bomb ass tweet out of it

London's different, but even though I have an Uber account I rarely use it because Uber is more expensive and has longer waiting times than the local private hire firms around where I live. I can even pay via app in advance or in the cab via contactless. Uber is a last resort when everyone else is is super busy.

Back to paying £5 a mile/ £2.50 minute I guess

black cabs are extortionate and rude. I've never had a naff experience with uber. Maybe Khan should finish his fucking night tube instead of doing this shit. wow this news has made me unreasonably angry

I'm not a fan of black cabs and their high prices although they are pretty good when it comes to accessibility for those of us who are less mobile. Black cabs are overpriced and they shouldn't get special treatment but I am increasingly dubious about tech companies who can undercut by removing any type of regulation, cocking up other markets, and keep running at a loss while burning through private equity/venture capitalist cash (a luxury black cab drivers don't happen to have) Uber basically just do this; •Aggressively enter the market and attempt hostile takeover •Flat out refuse to follow even the most basic of safety checks (or follow any regulations really) •Claim they don't have to follow the rules because their drivers are all self employed (whilst having to adhere strictly to the rules of an Uber contractual obligation and exclusively work for Uber) •'Lobby' for deregulation of public safety laws •Monitor Law enforcement and regulatory bodies through shady/illegal methods •Publicly decry regulation and threaten to pull out of a market if their conditions for business are not met •Hope the public backlash forces the regulatory body to acquiesce, if not then pull out of market before being thrown out and blame the regulator despite breaking every rule in the book. They are essentially a complete sham of a company propped up by Silicon Valley billionaires who dream of monopolizing inner city travel for their own profit. The bubble they've created will burst. Uber is NOT a ridesharing platform - it is a taxi company that masquerades as one. Uber interviews 'job applicants', has them take exams, commands them, and quality controls them. Ridesharing means 'I'm going to this location, and I'm willing take some folks with me in exchange for their share of the fuel cost'. Being an Uber driver means clocking in, following instructions from the Uber dispatcher, and driving people around for primary income. I think it's about time for the development of some kind of distributed/decentralised taxi platform where private hire drivers and more traditional taxi firms are able to register for a small percentage of fares/donating some computing power which would go towards server and development costs etc. Uber has some good ideas in it's app and ecosystem but unfortunately they're awful in their business practices and maintain a stranglehold over their platform.

Wasn't the real issue with uber that regardless of how much time you did it's basically impossible to get minimum wage out of it?

There will be a replacement. Uber is ubiquitous, there's a huge gap in the market if it goes. But my guess is Uber will throw money into the legal proceedings, and as long as the legal proceedings are open they can continue to operate AFAIK [editline]22nd September 2017[/editline] Also the only time I took a black cab was to compare it to an Uber which I regularly take on the same route. The driver wouldn't shut up when we got to the destination and also said the card machine didn't work so I had to go and get cash for him. And he took me to technically the right place but also the wrong place (wrong side of a park), which wouldn't have happened with Uber since Uber uses GPS All other times the cabbie has told me to get lost because the journey is to south of the river at night Black cabs are a joke and they NEED this competition.

If they're going to revoke Uber's license they should do the same for companies like City taxis (Derbyshire/Yorkshire area) which have drivers who get their licenses in other areas then abuse a loophole that allows them to operate in areas they aren't otherwise licensed to operate it. It's getting with the times.

You may be paying less for Uber and that may be the bottom line for a lot of people but the company is a complete sham. Iirc they've stil yet to become profitable and basically artificially keep their shares high by drumming up unlikely new ideas and markets they claim to be taking on. From their sadistic ex-CEO to refusing to own up to their employees liabilities to basically being Enron 2.0, the company embodies every dark excess of the new startup economy. Black cabs may suck and there's definitely room for someone to do better, shame it had to be Uber, though.

[QUOTE=eirexe;52707446]Wasn't the real issue with uber that regardless of how much time you did it's basically impossible to get minimum wage out of it?[/QUOTE] Seems to be around $50 an hour here before counting the fuel costs. Short trips to work go up to $60 an hour. Minimum wage is $18.29. Can't remember what Uber takes from the fare but I feel I remember someone mentioning the driver gets 75%.

[QUOTE=AncientFryup;52706969]I personally have never understood why people use Uber.. my local taxi company will cost me £5 to get to work whilst Uber some how get off on charging between £8-9 for the same journey.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=AncientFryup;52706969]my [B]local[/B] taxi company[/QUOTE] Surely this isn't hard to figure out.