Kobe Steel admits to selling metal that failed QC tests to more than 500 companies - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote]Kobe Steel Ltd. has made a startling admission: It sold products that failed quality control tests to about 500 companies. Worse still, it did so not in error but by falsifying data to make it appear that items had made the grade. Aircraft, electronics, car and bullet train manufacturers were among the recipients, raising obvious safety concerns. From Boeing Co. to Ford Motor Co., companies are scrambling to check any affected products. And Japan Inc. is facing up to another embarrassing scandal.[/quote] [url]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-13/kobe-steel-scam-hits-planes-trains-automobiles-quicktake-q-a-j8pto39q[/url]

Jesus how do you fuck up like this. That's terrifying. Jail time for all responsible please.

How do people who sell faulty steel to companies that make aircraft, bullet trains, and consumer vehicles sleep at night

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;52780968]How do people who sell faulty steel to companies that make aircraft, bullet trains, and consumer vehicles sleep at night[/QUOTE] not in a train

How to Tank your Company in One Easy Step (With Pictures)

This is a quality fuck up beyond anything I've ever seen before. Having the raw material you're using ending up being junk is a HIGH LEVEL problem. It's not a danger to just the end user either, but to also those who have to turn/mill/weld this stuff. A faulty piece of steel can split and shatter under cutting pressure. This is going to shakeup the metalworking industry a bit as basically any company who supplied product with stuff is going to have to recall. This company is as good as dead now, but I hope they can contain the damage in time.

[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52780959]Jesus how do you fuck up like this. That's terrifying. Jail time for all responsible please.[/QUOTE] Well for starters it wasn't a fuckup, it was fraud. [editline]15th October 2017[/editline] If I ran a high tech engineering/manufacturing company I'd be testing every lot of material for composition and yield strength that comes into the factory. In a large company hiring a lab technician would be cheaper than the financial and reputation loses caused by a material failure.

Absolutely appalling, I hope the people responsible for this are pulled out from their holes and charged accordingly and not just given the opportunity to scapegoat people who were following managerial directions.

Jeez, I work in quality control with the mentality of not approving anything I wouldn't want to use myself, how the hell can those people sell poor quality materials that could at some point end up in their own cars, let alone put others in danger?

[QUOTE=Thunderbolt;52781416]Jeez, I work in quality control with the mentality of not approving anything I wouldn't want to use myself, how the hell can those people sell poor quality materials that could at some point end up in their own cars, let alone put others in danger?[/QUOTE] Because [B]M O N E Y[/B]

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;52781433]Because [B]M O N E Y[/B][/QUOTE] Yeah but like, say you're an evil CEO, tell your workers this is okay to do, you buy a new car, crash it and fucking die because the frame cracked instead of bending and absorbing the impact since it was made with the shitty metal you sold, at that point you're putting money potentially over even your own life which is pretty damn stupid if you ask me :v:

the liability they're opening themselves up to simply by selling that steel is astronomical. It doesn't even make economic sense to take that risk. All it would take is the collapse of a building, the faulty steel causing issues with a flight, and poof, that money is GONE.

[QUOTE=atva300ex;52781122]This is a quality fuck up beyond anything I've ever seen before. Having the raw material you're using ending up being junk is a HIGH LEVEL problem. It's not a danger to just the end user either, but to also those who have to turn/mill/weld this stuff. A faulty piece of steel can split and shatter under cutting pressure. This is going to shakeup the metalworking industry a bit as basically any company who supplied product with stuff is going to have to recall. This company is as good as dead now, but I hope they can contain the damage in time.[/QUOTE] There is nothing worse than trying to repair chinesium, I feel bad for the guys who might end up breaking tooling over this crap thinking it was their fault.

[QUOTE=download;52781131]If I ran a high tech engineering/manufacturing company I'd be testing every lot of material for composition and yield strength that comes into the factory. In a large company hiring a lab technician would be cheaper than the financial and reputation loses caused by a material failure.[/QUOTE] Except you're not liable for material failure if your material was guaranteed to be of a certain quality.

[QUOTE=BAZ;52781594]Except you're not liable for material failure if your material was guaranteed to be of a certain quality.[/QUOTE] Which you won't know until after an investigation. In the mean time everyone will avoid your products and/or you won't be able to sell them.

[QUOTE=BAZ;52781594]Except you're not liable for material failure if your material was guaranteed to be of a certain quality.[/QUOTE] It's still expected that your company does some self-testing and internal QC

So if my car is made with the same metal, I can sue ?

[QUOTE=Thunderbolt;52781446]Yeah but like, say you're an evil CEO, tell your workers this is okay to do, you buy a new car, crash it and fucking die because the frame cracked instead of bending and absorbing the impact since it was made with the shitty metal you sold, at that point you're putting money potentially over even your own life which is pretty damn stupid if you ask me :v:[/QUOTE] I mean, you are assuming the evil CEO isn't savvy enough to NOT buy a car that isn't a liability. He wouldn't give a shit, he'd be as safe as houses.

Jesus FUCK Jail every piece of shit involved that willingly did this. These lawsuits are going to create records.

this happens way more in industry than you think, just not the falsifying bit, its just usually someone does their job and catches it. everybody today seems content to let the other guy's lab do all the testing. my plant keeps getting burned by our suppliers and my co worker still got rejected for funds to purchase some analysis equipment [editline]15th October 2017[/editline] I guess this is a good day for Alcoa, kobe is going to be run right out of the aluminum market for this.

Watch those individuals responsible walk away with a slap on the wrist disgusting

[QUOTE=Saxon;52781937]Watch those individuals responsible walk away with a slap on the wrist disgusting[/QUOTE] The steel industry is watched with serious eye and protected with a heavy, heavy hand. If the allegations are true, expect the company go under entirely and some people may end up jailed. Also, this is an international issue. Countries' government agencies tend to be less friendly to oversea corporations. Many companies across the globe will be looking for blood at the very least too. [editline]15th October 2017[/editline] Actually - it's unlikely they'll be going under. It looks like the investigation is company-run and is being driven by the current heads of the corporation. This practice of lying about the quality has dated back [b]10 years[/b], under a completely different head. It's likely the Japanese government won't let them take too large a hit, steel industry is quite important, and the current Kobe Steel is pushing to fix it. [quote]Kobe Steel is likely to face lawsuits from investors, customers, consumers and regulators in Japan and U.S., experts say[/quote] They're going to be very close to being crushed, though. [quote]Shares in Kobe Steel have plunged 42 percent since its initial mea culpa, wiping out $1.8 billion of market value. “This is not going to be the end of Kobe Steel, it could be the end for management,” said Thanh Ha Pham, an analyst at Jefferies Japan Ltd. “It could result in the break-up of the company.” [/quote] Yeah, the company won't be crushed in all likelihood, it'll be broken up and the entire management over the last decade is going to be in deep shit. It'll be up to the Japanese justice system to decide if they're worthy of jail time. Still though, almost half of their original market value lost, that's kind of insane. They fucked up big and everyone knows there is no way in hell they're getting away with it. [editline]15th October 2017[/editline] nevermind, the japanese government is going to behead them as an example LOL [quote]Japan Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Kotaro Nogami has said the faked data undermined the basis of fair trade, calling it “inappropriate”. It’s another scandal that threatens to undermine confidence in Japanese manufacturing.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;52780968]How do people who sell faulty steel to companies that make aircraft, bullet trains, and consumer vehicles sleep at night[/QUOTE] Lots of companies do crap like this, especially when their income depends on moving product. If you don't move product, you don't make money. So if the product is sub-standard, you move it anyway. Scummy as fuck to do, but here we are. For instance, I used to work for a company called Western Dairy Transport, and my job was to be the "sample puller". My job was just to take milk samples from trucks and record the temperature of the milk in the tank before it was sent to the nearby cheese plant, and I was told that if the temperature was above 38F, I was to reject the load. The first time this happened I was told to just make up a number and send him through anyway. :why: Because if the trucker is paid by the load, and if he doesn't get the load through, he doesn't get paid. And if the load doesn't go through, the dairy (who likely has faulty refrigeration equipment because they can't be arsed to shut-down for the several hours needed to fix critical refrigeration problems/leaks) doesn't get paid, either. [QUOTE=BrickInHead;52781510]the liability they're opening themselves up to simply by selling that steel is astronomical. It doesn't even make economic sense to take that risk. All it would take is the collapse of a building, the faulty steel causing issues with a flight, and poof, that money is GONE.[/QUOTE] A lot of folks in the business of making money are astoundingly short-sighted. Example: 2008.

[QUOTE=Van-man;52781745]It's still expected that your company does some self-testing and internal QC[/QUOTE] Companies QC their own products and (occasionally) test supplied materials but I think it's completely unreasonable to expect every company to QC ALL steel they receive when Kobe was giving you guarantees. Do you independently QC all of your household purchases?

> [B]Aircraft, electronics, car and bullet train manufacturers[/B] were among the recipients, raising obvious safety concern > the company confessed to falsifying data about the strength and durability of some copper and aluminum > that was used in cars and trains and possibly [B]planes and a space rocket[/B], too. > Then Kobe Steel said it also faked data about iron ore powder and materials used in [B]DVDs and LCD screens[/B]. > Chief Executive Officer Hiroya Kawasaki said on Oct. 12 more cases could emerge as the company continues its investigations. > A day later it flagged misconduct related to more items [B]including steel wire and copper piping[/B] omfg, this is 3rd largest japanese metal producers (so far aluminium, copper, steel products listed) if this include deliveries to constructions (bridges, buildings etc.) then in areas like Japan or Taiwan it can end quite deadly same goes for transportation industry as falsified products ended in trains, airplanes, cars etc. airplanes manufacturers like Boeing, Airbus and some jet engine makers on list >e.g. IHI supplies both Boeing and Japan’s defence and aerospace industries if this was systematic and went 10+ years back the damage could be beyond repair jail sentences needs to roll along with public list of every delivery affected note: actual Japanese prime minister worked at Kobe Steel before entering politics

Between this and Equifax I think we need to start being harder on large corporations that fuck up monumentally. Nothing will ever improve otherwise.

It's hard to think of sanctions that can make a huge corporation shit its pants and fall in line without impacting its output in a way that other members of its sector who rely on it also suffer. The people at fault within the corporations should be fired, fined, and jailed. Promote the next guy in line and assign government agents to monitor their work for a set period of time?? I don't know.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52782140]It's hard to think of sanctions that can make a huge corporation shit its pants and fall in line without impacting its output in a way that other members of its sector who rely on it also suffer. The people at fault within the corporations should be fired, fined, and jailed. Promote the next guy in line and assign government agents to monitor their work for a set period of time?? I don't know.[/QUOTE] The problem is the whole point of incorporating is to protect individuals from being fined and jailed. Since you can't jail a corporation, all you can really do is fine them. The problem with [I]that[/I] is corporations then start to see breaking the law as a business expense. If they make more money by breaking the law then paying the fine, they do it.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;52782125]Between this and Equifax I think we need to start being harder on large corporations that fuck up monumentally. Nothing will ever improve otherwise.[/QUOTE] Large corporations can much easier lobby to things to change in their favor than smaller companies. Would be better to have them split up if their influences in various ways become possibly dangerous.

[QUOTE=ultra_bright;52781529]There is nothing worse than trying to repair chinesium, I feel bad for the guys who might end up breaking tooling over this crap thinking it was their fault.[/QUOTE] This is especially dangerous when the steel has to go though a really high pressure process, like knurling or thread rolling. The steel can shatter and injure operators of these machines.