University of Florida becomes second institution to deny white supremacist rally a venue - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote]The University of Florida on Wednesday denied a request by a group headed by white nationalist Richard Spencer to rent space on the campus for a September event and his supporters vowed to file a court challenge. UF President W. Kent Fuchs said in a statement that the decision was made after assessing risks to the campus, community and law enforcement following last weekend’s deadly violence during a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. Members of the National Policy Institute, which Spencer heads, had contacted the university about renting space on the campus in Gainesville on Sept. 12. [b]“I find the racist rhetoric of Richard Spencer and white nationalism repugnant and counter to everything the university and this nation stands for,”[/b] Fuchs’ statement said. Fuchs said UF is dedicated to free speech and public discourse, but the First Amendment does not require risk of imminent violence to students. [b]Spencer said he was angry with the university’s decision, and his supporters planned to file a legal challenge.[/b] “Such a brazen attack on free speech from a public university is infuriating,” Spencer said in a text message.[/quote] [url=https://apnews.com/2833455c302f44b4aa20a0e4c49e1b66?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP]Source: The Associated Press[/url] Looks like they're not gonna be able to find anyone to accept them, after both Texas A&M (and the Governor of Texas) and the University of Florida have turned them down.

[QUOTE]“Such a brazen attack on free speech from a public university is infuriating,” Spencer said in a text message. [/QUOTE] Free Speech =/= being forced to give shitty views a platform [t]https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png[/t]

Worth mentioning that U of F was originally going to allow it. Probably not a a free speech issue so much as one of public safety.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;52581016]Worth mentioning that U of F was originally going to allow it. Probably not a a free speech issue so much as one of public safety.[/QUOTE] yeah people were protesting against this dude showing up kinda hard more importantly nazis have already been punched out at uf so thats really probably the reason lmao

[quote] “Such a brazen attack on free speech from a public university is infuriating,” Spencer said in a text message.[/quote] News flash, brainiac: Free Speech is only protected from [i]governmental[/i] reprisal. You can preach all the hate your tongue will spew forth and you can't be arrested and charged for it, but you're not guaranteed the right to orally defecate all over a college auditorium. They're well within their right to tell you to sod right the fuck off.

why would you file a legal challenge. a university doesn't want to be involved in this saga and become tainted by a rally.

Get fucked spencer, you and your cronies.

[QUOTE=Liem;52580962]Free Speech =/= being forced to give shitty views a platform [t]https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png[/t][/QUOTE] free speech isn't just "government can't make it illegal to say stuff" there's the spirit of it as well (which this comic forgets). sure it could be technically legal to say XYZ within a society, but if you will get fired from your job for it, expelled from school, you get sent death threats, etc then i don't really know if that society has free speech the government is not the only factor to take into consideration with free speech - it ignores that influence of the wider society. if its impossible to express an opinion at all within a society (even if technically legal) then does it have free speech?

[QUOTE=Liem;52580962]Free Speech =/= being forced to give shitty views a platform [t]https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png[/t][/QUOTE] Comic alt text: I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that its' not literally illegal to express.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52581518]free speech isn't just "government can't make it illegal to say stuff" there's the spirit of it as well (which this comic forgets). sure it could be technically legal to say XYZ within a society, but if you will get fired from your job for it, expelled from school, you get sent death threats, etc then i don't really know if that society has free speech the government is not the only factor to take into consideration with free speech - it ignores that influence of the wider society[/QUOTE] "Free speech" refers to the literal governmental rights written in countries like the United States. I've never heard it used for anything else before. What world are you living in where you think you should be able to say whatever you want and not have people be upset by it?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52581518]free speech isn't just "government can't make it illegal to say stuff" there's the spirit of it as well (which this comic forgets). sure it could be technically legal to say XYZ within a society, but if you will get fired from your job for it, expelled from school, you get sent death threats, etc then i don't really know if that society has free speech the government is not the only factor to take into consideration with free speech - it ignores that influence of the wider society[/QUOTE] Preach horrible ideology, get fired for being horrible human being after boss finds out, "Wtf my free speech!!!!" You deserve to be ostracized from society if you want to dismantle society itself

[QUOTE=Destroyox;52581525]"Free speech" refers to the literal governmental rights written in countries like the United States. I've never heard it used for any of that before. What world are you living in where you think you should be able to say whatever you want and not have people be upset by it?[/QUOTE] i'm talking about the actual spirit of free speech, not the de jure of it. that's not the point - [b]It isn't just some legal technicality[/b]. It's a societal moral value that exists outside of legislation [QUOTE=joshuadim;52581526]Preach horrible ideology, get fired for being horrible human being after boss finds out, "Wtf my free speech!!!!" You deserve to be ostracized from society if you want to dismantle society itself[/QUOTE] so wheres all the bans on anarcho-primitivists then? my point is that if its functionally impossible to express an opinion (due to the extreme personal risk of doing so and the potential for ruining your life), it doesn't matter if its legal or not to express that opinion - you won't be able to regardless

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52581518]free speech isn't just "government can't make it illegal to say stuff" there's the spirit of it as well (which this comic forgets). sure it could be technically legal to say XYZ within a society, but if you will get fired from your job for it, expelled from school, you get sent death threats, etc then i don't really know if that society has free speech the government is not the only factor to take into consideration with free speech - it ignores that influence of the wider society[/QUOTE] The spirit of it isn't "you can say literally anything and there will be no consequences for you in your life and people are obliged to continue to associate with you even when you're spouting abhorrent garbage". The spirit of it is that you can say whatever you want, the government can't lock you up for it, and people can come to their own conclusions about you based on what you say. This includes agreeing with you or accepting you, as well as criticizing you, alienating you, or even hating you. Freedom of speech is about keeping the government out of regulation what we can and cannot discuss, and instead letting society and the people around you decide whether you deserve to be listened to, based on the merits of your ideas. The consequences of that can be you getting ostracized from the people around you if what you say is dreadful enough.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52581518]free speech isn't just "government can't make it illegal to say stuff" there's the spirit of it as well (which this comic forgets). sure it could be technically legal to say XYZ within a society, but if you will get fired from your job for it, expelled from school, you get sent death threats, etc then i don't really know if that society has free speech the government is not the only factor to take into consideration with free speech - it ignores that influence of the wider society. if its impossible to express an opinion at all within a society (even if technically legal) then does it have free speech?[/QUOTE] there is no "spirit of it" in any law, constitution included

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52581537]The spirit of it isn't "you can say literally anything and there will be no consequences for you in your life and people are obliged to continue to associate with you even when you're spouting abhorrent garbage".[/QUOTE] yeah there's legislation saying that you can technically say whatever you want and the government won't come after you, but we're also supposed to have a cultural norm that says you shouldn't really suppress stuff through private channels either, and certainly not by forming mobs to harass people, get them fired, attack their families, etc it's the culture of free speech - the entire point of having a culture of free speech is to protect the minority from the majority if you don't have a culture of free speech, then why even bother having the first amendment?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52581532]i'm talking about the actual spirit of free speech, not the de jure of it. that's not the point - [b]It isn't just some legal technicality[/b]. It's a societal moral value that exists outside of legislation[/QUOTE] This is the first time I've ever heard of "the spirit of free speech". You do know that part of the 1st Amendment was written in the 18th century by men who didn't want to allow a tyrant to suppress their criticism of government, right?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52581518]free speech isn't just "government can't make it illegal to say stuff" there's the spirit of it as well (which this comic forgets). sure it could be technically legal to say XYZ within a society, but if you will get fired from your job for it, expelled from school, you get sent death threats, etc then i don't really know if that society has free speech the government is not the only factor to take into consideration with free speech - it ignores that influence of the wider society. if its impossible to express an opinion at all within a society (even if technically legal) then does it have free speech?[/QUOTE] Freedom of speech != freedom from consequences.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52581421]why would you file a legal challenge. a university doesn't want to be involved in this saga and become tainted by a rally.[/QUOTE] Well, depending on how you look at it, unless it's a private university, it's government (state) owned property, and therefore denying speech could be seen as the "government" denying someone's first amendment rights. However, I'm not sure if this will count since they aren't denying him necessarioly space on campus, but denying him use of facilities, which is different.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;52581526]Preach horrible ideology, get fired for being horrible human being after boss finds out, "Wtf my free speech!!!!" You deserve to be ostracized from society if you want to dismantle society itself[/QUOTE] That doesn't sound like Mccarthyism at all...

[quote]That doesn't sound like Mccarthyism at all...[/quote] Ironically, you're right! It doesn't. How McCarthyism works: "You're a Communist!" "No, I'm not." "That's what a [I]Communist[/I] would say. Take him away, boys!" How McCarthyism doesn't work: "I'm a Nazi!" "You're a Na... wait." "That's what a liberal would say! Fuck off, communist!" "Right. Take him away, boys." "WTF, FREE SPEEECH"

[QUOTE=Joffy;52581716]That doesn't sound like Mccarthyism at all...[/QUOTE] they're fucking nazis

[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52581721]Ironically, you're right! It doesn't. How McCarthyism works: "You're a Communist!" "No, I'm not." "That's what a [I]Communist[/I] would say. Take him away, boys!" How McCarthyism doesn't work: "I'm a Nazi!" "You're a Na... wait." "That's what a liberal would say! Fuck off, communist!" "Right. Take him away, boys." "WTF, FREE SPEEECH"[/QUOTE] Back then you lost your job if you were a communist, today if you're a nazi, what's the difference? You can say one is worse than the other, but to the person holding such views it the see the opposite. Really, it worries me a lot. These people aren't going away by telling them that they're trash and that their opinions are awful. All it does is strengthen their idea that they're being persecuted and legitimizes undemocratic tactics. I think white nationalists and nazis are a growing number and it will only continue to grow as long as this keeps happening. I worry that I'll see actual fascist uprisings in the west within my lifetime. Nazi Germany wasn't even a 100 years ago.

[QUOTE=Joffy;52581761]Back then you lost your job if you were a communist, today if you're a nazi, what's the difference? You can say one is worse than the other, but to the person holding such views it the see the opposite.[/QUOTE] To reiterate, they're fucking nazis.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52581800]To reiterate, they're fucking nazis.[/QUOTE] don't you see, the only way to fight nazism is to treat them as nicely as possible and make sure they face no consequences for anything they say and do and then they'll come to naturally see the error of their ways instead of taking advantage of your kindness and killing you

[QUOTE=TheHydra;52581814]don't you see, the only way to fight nazism is to treat them as nicely as possible and make sure they face no consequences for anything they say and do and then they'll come to naturally see the error of their ways instead of taking advantage of your kindness and killing you[/QUOTE] I don't think you can change the views of people who have become nazis 90% of the times, but the people who are on the edge, who might just have some controversial opinions, can be almost all of the times. Besides that, do you actually think being the better man is a bad thing and always end up with you being taken advantage of?

[QUOTE=Joffy;52581829]I don't think you can change the views of people who have become nazis 90% of the times, but the people who are on the edge, who might just have some controversial opinions, can be almost all of the times. Besides that, do you actually think being the better man is a bad thing and always end up with you being taken advantage of?[/QUOTE] Being the better men to Nazi's led to the holocaust. Literally. Appeasment gave Hitler the time and space to do some of the most horrific shit in human history. I do not agree with assaulting a nazi. I don't agree with violence in general unless it's the only resort. But these are not "Fringe" ideas like being a conspiracist, or like being a anti-vaxxer or other equally dumb lines of thought. This is literally "YOU ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO LIVE ON MY PLANET". I don't get what's hard about this. I honestly don't. Communists don't have "Untermensch must die" as the core tennant of their philosophy, even if they do get violent. But what do Nazis have? They don't have a complicated belief system dude. They have "You're dead for being born wrong". What do you want me to do with that besides outright reject that? What compromise will YOU give to that?

[QUOTE=Joffy;52581829]I don't think you can change the views of people who have become nazis 90% of the times, but the people who are on the edge, who might just have some controversial opinions, can be almost all of the times. Besides that, do you actually think being the better man is a bad thing and always end up with you being taken advantage of?[/QUOTE] nazis view jews, black people, etc. as subhumans who must be exterminated at all costs, and white people who defend them as race traitors who must suffer the same fate. they are viewed the same way you might look at a rat infestation in your house. no matter how one of them might act, they're still a target for extermination. their very existence is an offense to a nazi; their existence is a crime that must be punished with death. any kindness shown is seen as a opportunity to take advantage of. it doesn't matter if you try to "be the better man" when your opponent wants to kill you because he thinks you're an inherently lower life form who contributes to white genocide by virtue of being in the same area as him.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52581854]Being the better men to Nazi's led to the holocaust. Literally. Appeasment gave Hitler the time and space to do some of the most horrific shit in human history. I do not agree with assaulting a nazi. I don't agree with violence in general unless it's the only resort. But these are not "Fringe" ideas like being a conspiracist, or like being a anti-vaxxer or other equally dumb lines of thought. This is literally "YOU ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO LIVE ON MY PLANET". I don't get what's hard about this. I honestly don't. Communists don't have "Untermensch must die" as the core tennant of their philosophy, even if they do get violent. But what do Nazis have? They don't have a complicated belief system dude. They have "You're dead for being born wrong". What do you want me to do with that besides outright reject that? What compromise will YOU give to that?[/QUOTE] I don't think I ever said that you shouldn't reject that which you don't believe in and neither will I. And it's not appeasment which I'm talking about. If the nazis believe that "You're dead for being born wrong", then ask why. No logical answer can come out of that in the end of things and even if the Nazis themselves will not see this, the people who as I said, are likely to become in the future will realize how nonsensical it actually is. That has nothing to do with giving Hitler an extremely short sentence for trying to actually take over a nation through undemocratic means.

Hitler took over via democratic methods. Please go learn history.

[QUOTE=TheHydra;52581882]nazis view jews, black people, etc. as subhumans who must be exterminated at all costs, and white people who defend them as race traitors who must suffer the same fate. they are viewed the same way you might look at a rat infestation in your house. no matter how one of them might act, they're still a target for extermination. their very existence is an offense to a nazi; their existence is a crime that must be punished with death. any kindness shown is seen as a opportunity to take advantage of. it doesn't matter if you try to "be the better man" when your opponent wants to kill you because he thinks you're an inherently lower life form who contributes to white genocide by virtue of being in the same area as him.[/QUOTE] It takes quite a long time of indoctrination to get to the point where you actually believe this. Most nazis today are probably just poltards who thinks they're right to hate black people and jews because they saw a few infographics that tells them what they want to see, such things are easy to debunk and those people can easily be proven wrong. [editline]17th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52581933]Hitler took over via democratic methods. Please go learn history.[/QUOTE] I meant the beer hall putsch.