New London £10 a day "Toxic" charge comes into force for older cars - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE]Drivers of older, more polluting vehicles will have topay almost twice as much to drive in central London. Mayor Sadiq Khan's £10 T-Charge, which mainly applies to diesel and petrol vehicles registered before 2006, has come into force. It covers the same area as the existing congestion charge zone, bumping up the cost to £21.50 for those affected. ... "Roughly speaking each year more than 9,000 Londoners die prematurely because of the poor quality air - children in our city whose lungs are underdeveloped, with adults who suffer from conditions such as asthma, dementia and strokes directly caused by poor quality air." However, Simon Birkett, from the campaign group Clean Air London, does not believe the move goes far enough.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41695116[/url]

The air in central London is terrible, sucks for me every time I go in due to asthma. There's no reason for people who live there and drive through frequently to own diesel vehicles.

If you think this is dumb you care more about cool cars than children not dying slow and horrible deaths.

I don't understand people who live in the city and own a diesel car. I get that it's better miles for the money but not by much and generally diesel cars have a filter. The filter blocks up if you do slow or short journeys so you need to do a long journey like once a month in order to clean it out, which generally means one of two things. 1. You are too lazy to do that journey and you car seems to stop working and you have no idea why, so you take it to a mechanic and he says "Your diesel filter is blocked, how many miles do you do a week/month?" "I do about 20 miles a week/80 a month." at this points he walks off and laughs at you behind your back because he realizes how much of a moron you are. So then he can charge you like £40 to clean it but you instead you buy someone online for like £15 and do it yourself because you have a job that pays for your £50,000 Range Rover so how hard can it be. 20 minutes later you are spraying diesel filter cleaner onto your windscreen because you filled up the wrong hole like an idiot and you take it back to the man that is now openly laughing at you who now charges you £80 because you are desperate and you go about your daily life afterwards until next month when you have to do it all again. 2. Just buy a petrol car. Edit: Or a car that isn't killing everyone slowly, but don't worry you are saving £5 per fill up. Good on you Sandra. I fucking hate you Sandra.

[QUOTE=Clive;52811322]I don't understand people who live in the city and own a diesel car. I get that it's better miles for the money but not by much and generally diesel cars have a filter. The filter blocks up if you do slow or short journeys so you need to do a long journey like once a month in order to clean it out, which generally means one of two things. 1. You are too lazy to do that journey and you car seems to stop working and you have no idea why, so you take it to a mechanic and he says "Your diesel filter is blocked, how many miles do you do a week/month?" "I do about 20 miles a week/80 a month." at this points he walks off and laughs at you behind your back because he realizes how much of a moron you are. So then he can charge you like £40 to clean it but you instead you buy someone online for like £15 and do it yourself because you have a job that pays for your £50,000 Range Rover so how hard can it be. 20 minutes later you are spraying diesel filter cleaner onto your windscreen because you filled up the wrong hole like an idiot and you take it back to the man that is now openly laughing at you who now charges you £80 because you are desperate and you go about your daily life afterwards until next month when you have to do it all again. 2. Just buy a petrol car. Edit: Or a car that isn't killing everyone slowly, but don't worry you are saving £5 per fill up. Good on you Sandra. I fucking hate you Sandra.[/QUOTE] Or an electric car. If you was only doing 80 miles a month then a single charge on my leaf would last you a month and a half. Maybe more if you are just crawling around London at 15 mph.

[QUOTE=Morgen;52811331]Or an electric car. If you was only doing 80 miles a month then a single charge on my leaf would last you a month and a half. Maybe more if you are just crawling around London at 15 mph.[/QUOTE] I'm glad i3s are becoming more popular in London, they are the perfect city car.

after living in scotland my whole life and moving to england where i have to move through london regularly to get to heathrow to go vist home it absolutely shocked me how bad the air in central london is, first time i went to piccadilly circus i felt like i was suffocating

Yeah that's why I added [Quote]Or a car that isn't killing everyone slowly[/Quote] I agree with you though, it's just stupid when people own cars with engines that they don't really need. What's the point. You car can do 0 to 60 in 4 seconds? Great, when would that be useful, top speed of 160mph? I bet you can't wait to go on the motorway so you can do 70mph...pointless.

DPFs are weird though. You won't know you've got one until it starts to play up on you and mechanics start telling you to change your habits or pay up ££££. I had to find out for myself that I couldn't buy the 2.2 DTEC Civic because my driving habits are inappropriate for a Euro 6 diesel. And that's as the daily driver of a Euro 6 van. Now I know, I try to spread the word that you shouldn't buy diesels for town driving. But yeah, we really need to get old and dirty diesels off the road. Petrol is a little bit bad, but diesel is far worse. I'm shocked every time an old diesel BMW or similar pulls off a roundabout in front of me and I get showered with black smoke - we used to think this was okay? And yet, cars aren't really the sum of the problem. Khan had better be putting money where his mouth is and putting towards replacing public transport and freight with Euro 6 models or EVs. The emissions of old HGVs and buses are hugely dirty and toxic.

[QUOTE=PyroCF;52811342]I'm glad i3s are becoming more popular in London, they are the perfect city car.[/QUOTE] When I was down in London in March I saw loads of Leafs and i3s around Greenwich. Cities in general (at least in the UK) should probably mandate zero emissions. That doesn't necessarily mean the end of the ICE before anyone gets worked up, a lot of plugin hybrids have an electric only mode which you could save for use in the city.

i've noticed, at least here in the US, many people who are driving older cars are not doing so out of want but because they cannot afford anything else. perhaps things are different across the pond but i can't imagine fining people who are driving a polluting shitbox will give them any easier of a time getting something cleaner.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;52811354]i've noticed, at least here in the US, many people who are driving older cars are not doing so out of want but because they cannot afford anything else. perhaps things are different across the pond but i can't imagine fining people who are driving a polluting shitbox will give them any easier of a time getting something cleaner.[/QUOTE] This is what bothers me, too. It seems counter-intuitive to be fining the people that are likely the most financially challenged

Cars are expensive and if you do have an older car or a car that has bad emissions because you can't afford a new one then it's totally understandable. That being said when that person can afford a new car, they will generally look for the cheaper ones and diesel (in the long run) is cheaper or used to be before all this tax malarkey.

[QUOTE=Duck M.;52811363]This is what bothers me, too. It seems counter-intuitive to be fining the people that are likely the most financially challenged[/QUOTE] i think if revenues from this fine were used to subsidize the purchase of new or used cars which fit their emissions standards, it would feel less counter-intuitive and would likely have a better effect in general.

London traffic is fucking terrible anyways. Its horrible for cars, the roads are tiny af, and the underground works fine.

[QUOTE=Duck M.;52811363]This is what bothers me, too. It seems counter-intuitive to be fining the people that are likely the most financially challenged[/QUOTE] kinda the wrong interpretation, imo. Your fining cars that are artificially cheaper because those cars don't have the real cost to the environment taken into account, it really doesn't matter *who* is using the cheap car, its that the cheap car isn't *really* cheap, its just the cost is made up in cost on environment and the society. People will need to adjust to paying for the damage they do. then again i'd be all for general programs that funnel huge amounts of money to the poor, but doing it though keeping cars that are killing everyone cheap just seems like an odd place to do that.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;52811354]i've noticed, at least here in the US, many people who are driving older cars are not doing so out of want but because they cannot afford anything else. perhaps things are different across the pond but i can't imagine fining people who are driving a polluting shitbox will give them any easier of a time getting something cleaner.[/QUOTE] Probably not very poor if they are driving in central London everyday, and was already paying £11.50 everyday to do so.

[QUOTE=Jon27;52811349]DPFs are weird though. You won't know you've got one until it starts to play up on you and mechanics start telling you to change your habits or pay up ££££. I had to find out for myself that I couldn't buy the 2.2 DTEC Civic because my driving habits are inappropriate for a Euro 6 diesel. And that's as the daily driver of a Euro 6 van. Now I know, I try to spread the word that you shouldn't buy diesels for town driving. But yeah, we really need to get old and dirty diesels off the road. Petrol is a little bit bad, but diesel is far worse. I'm shocked every time an old diesel BMW or similar pulls off a roundabout in front of me and I get showered with black smoke - we used to think this was okay? And yet, cars aren't really the sum of the problem. Khan had better be putting money where his mouth is and putting towards replacing public transport and freight with Euro 6 models or EVs. The emissions of old HGVs and buses are hugely dirty and toxic.[/QUOTE] Back when those diesels came out, they weren't as harmful as they are now. They're old so they're obviously gonna pollute more than before. But it doesn't makes sense having a car in London. Don't you guys got subways? Sounds like a better idea than being stuck in traffic all day.

[QUOTE=Radical_ed;52811316]If you think this is dumb you care more about cool cars than children not dying slow and horrible deaths.[/QUOTE] Cool cars come in diesel?

[QUOTE=Megadave;52811518]Cool cars come in diesel?[/QUOTE] Yesish... The affordable ones do. Or at least the ones that don't slurp fuel, and you obviously don't get much choice other than german cars.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;52811503]kinda the wrong interpretation, imo. Your fining cars that are artificially cheaper because those cars don't have the real cost to the environment taken into account, it really doesn't matter *who* is using the cheap car, its that the cheap car isn't *really* cheap, its just the cost is made up in cost on environment and the society. People will need to adjust to paying for the damage they do. then again i'd be all for general programs that funnel huge amounts of money to the poor, but doing it though keeping cars that are killing everyone cheap just seems like an odd place to do that.[/QUOTE] So basically if you're poor and can't afford an electric car, tough shit? Want to be effective just ban everyone over a certain pay grade from driving gas cars, or tax them more. Or even better, create financial bonuses for owning an electric car, make people want to get an electric car. The ultimate would be getting a great public transportation system built on these things, though I think London's is pretty damn good so I can see the tax being justified under circumstances. Point being don't be the type of person that taxes poor people. Keep in mind this is from an American perspective, and transportation conditions in London may be ideal enough to warrant such taxes. [editline]23rd October 2017[/editline] Of coarse if this just applies to diesel cars, then tax the fuck out of them. Diesels have no business in the new age.

It mainly applies to cars registered before 2006, these days you could scrap your old car or part exchange it for like £500 and add £200 - £300 to that to get a 2007 car, it's pretty cheap.

[QUOTE=Megadave;52811539]So basically if you're poor and can't afford an electric car, tough shit? Want to be effective just ban everyone over a certain pay grade from driving gas cars, or tax them more. Or even better, create financial bonuses for owning an electric car, make people want to get an electric car. The ultimate would be getting a great public transportation system built on these things, though I think London's is pretty damn good so I can see the tax being justified under circumstances.[/QUOTE] As you said, london has great public transportation systems. For cities in the United States, you have to create a public transportation system first. For areas outside the city, you cant be quite so aggressive.

[QUOTE=Ignhelper;52811470]London traffic is fucking terrible anyways. Its horrible for cars, the roads are tiny af, and the underground works fine.[/QUOTE] I remember driving through Central London (which I avoid to do like a plague) with my GPS. The roads are so tightly packed that my GPS was getting confused on which road it was on and kept recalculating my route. Not an ideal situation when you are unsure where you're going in traffic.

[QUOTE=Clive;52811552]It mainly applies to cars registered before 2006, these days you could scrap your old car or part exchange it for like £500 and add £200 - £300 to that to get a 2007 car, it's pretty cheap.[/QUOTE] My 2006 truck is still worth $8000 why in gods name would I scrap it for a fraction of a fraction of its worth? Most cars from '00 to '06 are still worth more than scrap if they were maintained at all. Also applying the fine as a blanket on all 06 and older cars is stupid. There's plenty of eco friendly 06 and older cars that get good mileage. I'd definitely bet money on an '04 Honda Civic polluting less than a '15 F150 or Jeep Wrangler. On a different tangent, why is London's air so bad? I've never been but there's tons of complaints. It sounds worse than New York City or Chicago... I've been to both of those places and the air is fine.

Cars are probably only a small fraction of London's problem, but it's easier to go after them than the polluting industries that pay for your politics :^)

[QUOTE=Morgen;52811287][url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41695116[/url][/QUOTE] I recognize the issue that the air in London is horrible but all this is doing is fucking over people who need a car but can't afford a better/newer one.

[QUOTE=Zay333;52811745]I recognize the issue that the air in London is horrible but all this is doing is fucking over people who need a car but can't afford a better/newer one.[/QUOTE] [I]You don't need a car to travel in Central London.[/I]

I feel like this wont really fix the problem, its just palming it off onto your everyday people. People with old shitty polluting cars usually only have them because its their only choice.

[QUOTE=orcywoo6;52811778]I feel like this wont really fix the problem, its just palming it off onto your everyday people. People with old shitty polluting cars usually only have them because its their only choice.[/QUOTE] You literally don't need a car to travel in the areas affected by this charge. There's been a congestion charge in this area for over a decade now, it just effects more polluting vehicles now. It's always cheaper for you to just park outside of the congestion area and buy a travel card or something.