Family Of Man Killed By Girl With Machete Files Suit Against Walmart - Sensationalist Headlines

[url]http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/06/26/family-of-man-killed-by-girl-with-machete-files-suit-against-wal-mart/[/url] [QUOTE] CHICAGO (CBS) — The family of the Uber driver who was stabbed to death a month ago has filed suit against Walmart for failing to prevent the shoplifting of the murder weapons. Police in Lincolnwood say the 16-year-old girl charged with murdering the driver, Grant Nelson, shoplifted a knife and a machete from a Walmart. Police say she walked the aisles with both items in her hands, then walked out the door before she got in Nelson’s car and killed him. Now, Nelson’s family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Walmart and its security personnel for not stopping the shoplifting. “They didn’t inquire or stop her just to ask does she have a receipt?” the Nelson family’s attorney, Robert Bingle said. “That’s the most fundamental and important failure that we see that caused the death of Grant Nelson.” [/QUOTE]

i will have you know i also sued summer for making the temperature this hot, giving me a heat stroke

The family of a 16 year old has less money and is probably unable to settle for a multi-million dollar 'do away' payment unlike Wal Mart. The Nelson family lawyer must be exhausted from chasing ambulances.

I know the family are probably in shock but come on. If someones car got stolen and the thief killed someone with the car would you sue the owner of the car?

[QUOTE=Araknid;52410138]I know the family are probably in shock but come on. If someones car got stolen and the thief killed someone with the car would you sue the owner of the car?[/QUOTE] You haven't heard of the thief that injured himself breaking into someones house and successfully sued them for his injuries?

You people act like it's a sane thing to have machetes just... hanging around in easy enough reach that someone can actually shoplift them in a shop. Surely you realise that's [I]not[/I] sane, right?

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;52410151]You haven't heard of the thief that injured himself breaking into someones house and successfully sued them for his injuries?[/QUOTE] That seriously depends on the specifics though. It's really odd how it works. Unless they're a frequent trespasser, you set up literal booby traps, or they die on your property, then they can't sue you. So in the few cases where people have been successfully sued ([i]keep in mind many have tried suing as you can sue anyone for anything, that doesn't mean you'll win, and the vast majority don't[/i]) is usually because of those few reasons. The only one I know of which resulted in a successful lawsuit was when the dude booby trapped his house.

[QUOTE=sltungle;52410162]You people act like it's a sane thing to have machetes just... hanging around in easy enough reach that someone can actually shoplift them in a shop. Surely you realise that's [I]not[/I] sane, right?[/QUOTE] There are machetes hanging on the shelves of the Wal-mart outdoor section, the gardening section in Home Depot, and in the hunting section of sporting good stores. It's not an outlandish thing at all. Usually they are in that plastic packaging that requires another machete to open.

[QUOTE=sltungle;52410162]You people act like it's a sane thing to have machetes just... hanging around in easy enough reach that someone can actually shoplift them in a shop. Surely you realise that's [I]not[/I] sane, right?[/QUOTE] I guess you've never been in a Walmart or store that has such blades for sale. Not to say that the blades are super machete sized, but there's a NEX near me that sells knives larger than my hand just in plastic casing and a few legit sized ones in Virginia too.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;52410178][B]It's not an outlandish thing at all.[/B][/QUOTE] You're absolutely, unambiguously wrong. That's a weapon. You should have to get somebody who works there to retrieve it for you from a secure area. Every layer of difficulty you add in the acquisition or carrying out of something reckless/stupid/illegal only serves to attenuate the total number of people who go through with the process.

[QUOTE=sltungle;52410162]You people act like it's a sane thing to have machetes just... hanging around in easy enough reach that someone can actually shoplift them in a shop. Surely you realise that's [I]not[/I] sane, right?[/QUOTE] Do you want to lock shovels and garden shears and other tools behind bulletproof glass too?

[QUOTE=Omali;52410102]The family of a 16 year old has less money and is probably unable to settle for a multi-million dollar 'do away' payment unlike Wal Mart. The Nelson family lawyer must be exhausted from chasing ambulances.[/QUOTE] Neither should be sued, really. Seriously though, what's up with the lawsuit culture in the US? [QUOTE=IceWarrior98;52410151]You haven't heard of the thief that injured himself breaking into someones house and successfully sued them for his injuries?[/QUOTE] How the fuck does that work? If someone tried that bs on me I'd have told them to piss straight off.

[QUOTE=sltungle;52410183]You're absolutely, unambiguously wrong. That's a weapon. You should have to get somebody who works there to retrieve it for you from a secure area. Every layer of difficulty you add in the acquisition or carrying out of something reckless/stupid/illegal only serves to attenuate the total number of people who go through with the process.[/QUOTE] Kitchenware, sewing-section scissors, crowbars, tire irons, large wrenches, hammers, and such should also require a lock and key as well, correct? Or should we just schedule a chaperone for you on your next trip to the supermarket?

[QUOTE=Revenge282;52410203]Kitchenware, sewing-section scissors, crowbars, tire irons, large wrenches, hammers, and such should also require a lock and key as well, correct? Or should we just schedule a chaperone for you on your next trip to the supermarket?[/QUOTE] You have to have your government licensed and approved chaperone on your next trip, and then when you get home (s)he has to supervise you in your chores to make sure you don't cut yourself or harm someone else.

[QUOTE=sltungle;52410183]You're absolutely, unambiguously wrong. That's a weapon. You should have to get somebody who works there to retrieve it for you from a secure area. Every layer of difficulty you add in the acquisition or carrying out of something reckless/stupid/illegal only serves to attenuate the total number of people who go through with the process.[/QUOTE] Almost anything you find in a gardening or carpentry store can be used as a weapon, though. A machete is a tool before it's a weapon.

it's tragic as fuck he died because of that machete but as someone whose worked retail all their life, some shoplifting is just unstoppable. most of all why the fuck would unarmed, store staff untrained in security/apprehension ever stop someone stealing a machete?

[QUOTE=Revenge282;52410203]Kitchenware, sewing-section scissors, crowbars, tire irons, large wrenches, hammers, and such should also require a lock and key as well, correct? Or should we just schedule a chaperone for you on your next trip to the supermarket?[/QUOTE] You're right. Hell, I could murder somebody with a pillow if I wanted to. There's a spectrum of ease of use as a weapon and potential for injury/death. A machete is pretty high on both of those. Have you ever worked anywhere where you've had to do a risk assessment ever before? You assess the likelihood/frequency of the problem occurring, and you assess how dangerous/damaging the problem would be. If it's high in both you take measures to mitigate the risk. If it's high in one, but sufficiently low in another, you can usually get away without putting measures in place, and if it's low in both don't worry about it. Machete has high potential for injury/death and the ease of use as a weapon is high. That's just begging for abuse. A pillow is low on both fronts and you probably don't need to take any counter measures as a result. A shovel has moderate potential for injury/death and a moderate ease of use as a weapon. Not great, but I'll take my chances with a shovel wielding maniac over a machete wielding one. At least I can grab the shovel in many locations to liberate it from the crazy person using it; good fucking luck grabbing a machete when it's being swung at you. I love the, "let's blow things out of proportion and use an extreme argument," thing that Americans love doing. It's such a cute little quirk of your culture.

[QUOTE=sltungle;52410264]A shovel has moderate potential for injury/death and a moderate ease of use as a weapon. Not great, but I'll take my chances with a shovel wielding maniac over a machete wielding one. At least I can grab the shovel in many locations to liberate it from the crazy person using it; good fucking luck grabbing a machete when it's being swung at you.[/QUOTE] i will bet very good money that regardless of the weapon, your ass would be smoked in seconds. [editline]28th June 2017[/editline] imagine trying to grab ANY weapon being swung at you

[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52410269]i will bet very good money that regardless of the weapon, your ass would be smoked in seconds. [editline]28th June 2017[/editline] imagine trying to grab ANY weapon being swung at you[/QUOTE] A blow to the head? Good chance, yeah. I'll take my odds with that than a machete to the torso still though. Also, if somebody is walking towards you with a shovel and they're readying it to use it as a weapon there's a lot of body language cues that'll make it fairly obvious (or at least tip you off). They're probably going to have to be brandishing it with two hands in a manner ready to swing and the object's big enough that it can be seen from a distance. It's easier for somebody to get up close and do damage with a blade than with something like that. A hard enough hit to the right spot on the skull will do you in. A sharp blade to a large portion of the torso... or to the right part of your arms, or neck, or into your shoulders, or your legs, or your head too can quite easily spell death.

[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52410221]it's tragic as fuck he died because of that machete but as someone whose worked retail all their life, some shoplifting is just unstoppable. most of all why the fuck would unarmed, store staff untrained in security/apprehension ever stop someone stealing a machete?[/QUOTE] It isn't just the unarmed and untrained part, most companies explicitly tell their employees to avoid shoplifters and report them to the manager. Otherwise the company is liable for any injury sustained by either party.

[QUOTE=sltungle;52410264]You're right. Hell, I could murder somebody with a pillow if I wanted to. There's a spectrum of ease of use as a weapon and potential for injury/death. A machete is pretty high on both of those. Have you ever worked anywhere where you've had to do a risk assessment ever before? You assess the likelihood/frequency of the problem occurring, and you assess how dangerous/damaging the problem would be. If it's high in both you take measures to mitigate the risk. If it's high in one, but sufficiently low in another, you can usually get away without putting measures in place, and if it's low in both don't worry about it. Machete has high potential for injury/death and the ease of use as a weapon is high. That's just begging for abuse. A pillow is low on both fronts and you probably don't need to take any counter measures as a result. A shovel has moderate potential for injury/death and a moderate ease of use as a weapon. Not great, but I'll take my chances with a shovel wielding maniac over a machete wielding one. At least I can grab the shovel in many locations to liberate it from the crazy person using it; good fucking luck grabbing a machete when it's being swung at you. I love the, "let's blow things out of proportion and use an extreme argument," thing that Americans love doing. It's such a cute little quirk of your culture.[/QUOTE] [quote]I love the, "let's blow things out of proportion and use an extreme argument," thing that Americans love doing. It's such a cute little quirk of your culture.[/quote] That's really funny coming from the guy having a meltdown about agricultural equipment being treated like tools instead of nuclear weapons. Lose this stupid "lol stupid americans amirite" shit. Not everyone lives or wants to live in a padded room.

[QUOTE=sltungle;52410287]A blow to the head? Good chance, yeah. I'll take my odds with that than a machete to the torso still though. Also, if somebody is walking towards you with a shovel and they're readying it to use it as a weapon there's a lot of body language cues that'll make it fairly obvious (or at least tip you off). They're probably going to have to be brandishing it with two hands in a manner ready to swing and the object's big enough that it can be seen from a distance. It's easier for somebody to get up close and do damage with a blade than with something like that. A hard enough hit to the right spot on the skull will do you in. A sharp blade to a large portion of the torso... or to the right part of your arms, or neck, or into your shoulders, or your legs, or your head too can quite easily spell death.[/QUOTE] if you get accosted by anyone with any fucking weapon and you don't have a gun or an objectively superior weapon you dont try to fucking do some john woo shit and BLOCK WITH YOUR HANDS metal gear rising style, you just get the fuck out of there. also im pretty sure that someone with a machete coming toward you like a night train is just as much of a Tell as someone wielding a shovel Aggressively. i also question why you think only a blow to the head from a shovel would kill your ass. like.. you realize the edge of a shovel can shank you real fucking good, right? my brother (then 13) once put a shovel clean into his fucking foot and create a reaming wound even through a combat boot. [editline]28th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Lijitsu;52410306]It isn't just the unarmed and untrained part, most companies explicitly tell their employees to avoid shoplifters and report them to the manager. Otherwise the company is liable for any injury sustained by either party.[/QUOTE] as a former manager i can safely say that it's not always a liability issue. at least in my position it was because i genuinely didn't want my staff to get shanked to death by methheads over a £2 bottle of cider.

[QUOTE=sltungle;52410287]A blow to the head? Good chance, yeah. I'll take my odds with that than a machete to the torso still though. Also, if somebody is walking towards you with a shovel and they're readying it to use it as a weapon there's a lot of body language cues that'll make it fairly obvious (or at least tip you off). They're probably going to have to be brandishing it with two hands in a manner ready to swing and the object's big enough that it can be seen from a distance. It's easier for somebody to get up close and do damage with a blade than with something like that. A hard enough hit to the right spot on the skull will do you in. A sharp blade to a large portion of the torso... or to the right part of your arms, or neck, or into your shoulders, or your legs, or your head too can quite easily spell death.[/QUOTE] Mate you can stab someone in the throat with fucking garden shears, what are you gonna do, keep them in a locked steel cabinet?

[QUOTE=sltungle;52410183]You're absolutely, unambiguously wrong. That's a weapon. You should have to get somebody who works there to retrieve it for you from a secure area. Every layer of difficulty you add in the acquisition or carrying out of something reckless/stupid/illegal only serves to attenuate the total number of people who go through with the process.[/QUOTE] I usually get really aggravated by people using the "guns aren't a weapon, they're just a tool" argument, but I really can't think of any other way to put it. A machete's primary purpose is chopping and cutting, and the vast majority of the time it is used on trees, bushes, and other plants.

A shovel blow to the neck will probably kill you, and if stories from the First World War are to be believed, have the power to easily take your head off. Really anywhere is probably enough to put you out easily.

[QUOTE=sltungle;52410264]You're right. Hell, I could murder somebody with a pillow if I wanted to. There's a spectrum of ease of use as a weapon and potential for injury/death. A machete is pretty high on both of those. Have you ever worked anywhere where you've had to do a risk assessment ever before? You assess the likelihood/frequency of the problem occurring, and you assess how dangerous/damaging the problem would be. If it's high in both you take measures to mitigate the risk. If it's high in one, but sufficiently low in another, you can usually get away without putting measures in place, and if it's low in both don't worry about it. Machete has high potential for injury/death and the ease of use as a weapon is high. That's just begging for abuse. A pillow is low on both fronts and you probably don't need to take any counter measures as a result. A shovel has moderate potential for injury/death and a moderate ease of use as a weapon. Not great, but I'll take my chances with a shovel wielding maniac over a machete wielding one. At least I can grab the shovel in many locations to liberate it from the crazy person using it; good fucking luck grabbing a machete when it's being swung at you. I love the, "let's blow things out of proportion and use an extreme argument," thing that Americans love doing. It's such a cute little quirk of your culture.[/QUOTE] A shovel, being longer and heavier, is probably more dangerous as a weapon than a machete. Especially considering many shovels have slightly sharpened edges to help them cut through dirt and small roots.

[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52410312]as a former manager i can safely say that it's not always a liability issue. at least in my position it was because i genuinely didn't want my staff to get shanked to death by methheads over a £2 bottle of cider.[/QUOTE] I mean yeah sure there's that if you're a manager, - or well a decent manager, pretty sure most of mine didn't give a fuck about any of us - but from a corporate standpoint it's a major liability so at least for a lot of big companies like Walmart and major retail chains - I worked at Kroger and it was like this there - it's part of employee training that comes down from the top.

[QUOTE=bdd458;52410330]A shovel blow to the neck will probably kill you, and if stories from the First World War are to be believed, have the power to easily take your head off. Really anywhere is probably enough to put you out easily.[/QUOTE] entrenchment tools were used to kill motherfuckers hardcore in BOTH world wars

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52410307]Not everyone lives or wants to live in a padded room.[/QUOTE] Taking precautions to help [I]minimise[/I] this shit from happening–not stop it altogether because that's never going to happen; just minimise the likelihood–doesn't require "living in a padded room" and is not equivalent to it. Requiring objects that have a high potential for harm and a high ease of use as an object that causes harm to be obtained from behind the counter is in no way an insane requirement. Like I said before, every single layer of annoyance/difficulty/risk you put in place to prevent an undesired effect occurring only serves to that end. You attenuate the total number of people who are going to go through with it. You'll never stop it from happening entirely but you can make it less of an issue quite easily. [editline]29th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Pissfuck;52410312]if you get accosted by anyone with any fucking weapon and you don't have a gun or an objectively superior weapon you dont try to fucking do some john woo shit and BLOCK WITH YOUR HANDS metal gear rising style, you just get the fuck out of there. also im pretty sure that someone with a machete coming toward you like a night train is just as much of a Tell as someone wielding a shovel Aggressively. i also question why you think only a blow to the head from a shovel would kill your ass. like.. you realize the edge of a shovel can shank you real fucking good, right? my brother (then 13) once put a shovel clean into his fucking foot and create a reaming wound even through a combat boot.[/QUOTE] Fair points, though I feel like you're being intentionally contrarian if you tell me you'd rather have to defend yourself against somebody wielding a machete than a shovel. I'd rather not find myself in either situation but if I had to pick between the two I'd take having to defend myself against the shovel. I reckon I've got a better chance that way.

[QUOTE=sltungle;52410340]Taking precautions to help [I]minimise[/I] this shit from happening–not stop it altogether because that's never going to happen; just minimise the likelihood–doesn't require "living in a padded room" and is not equivalent to it. Requiring objects that have a high potential for harm and a high ease of use as an object that causes harm to be obtained from behind the counter is in no way an insane requirement. Like I said before, every single layer of annoyance/difficulty/risk you put in place to prevent an undesired effect occurring only serves to that end. You attenuate the total number of people who are going to go through with it. You'll never stop it from happening entirely, but you can make it less of an issue quite easily.[/QUOTE] At some point it's not worth the trouble. This is the only documented case of someone walking out of Walmart with a machete and chopping someone to death, and even if they were locked up, she'd just fucking buy one if she had to because they're like $3. I have a pile of 10+ machetes in my room because they're so cheap and so useful. We already live in a bubble-wrap world where over-cautious safety regulations are a hassle. Let's not make it even more ridiculous. For the record, I'd rather defend myself against someone with a machete. There's no way you can stop a shovel that's being swung at you with lethal force without sustaining a dangerous injury and almost no way to actually get away from one. Most store-bought machetes aren't sharp enough to go through thick leather.