Cleveland Indians Will Abandon Chief Wahoo Logo Next Year

[Hail Satan]

[QUOTE]The Cleveland Indians will stop using the Chief Wahoo logo on their uniforms beginning in 2019, according to Major League Baseball, which said the popular symbol was no longer appropriate for use on the field.

The logo has long been the source of anguish and frustration for those who consider it offensive, outdated and racist, but for many of the team’s fans it is a cherished insignia — a divide that has played out at all levels of sports in recent years with teams featuring such nicknames and insignias. Most universities have stopped using Native American nicknames, while other teams, like the Washington Redskins in the N.F.L., have resisted growing pressure to do so.

Chief Wahoo, a cartoonish caricature of a Native American that has assumed several forms over the years, first appeared on the Indians’ uniforms in 1948. In recent decades various groups across North America have appealed to the team to renounce the logo, to no avail. But over the past year the commissioner of baseball, Rob Manfred, has pressured Paul Dolan, Cleveland’s chairman and chief executive, to make a change.

Citing a goal of diversity and inclusion, Manfred said in a statement provided to The New York Times that the Indians organization “ultimately agreed with my position that the logo is no longer appropriate for on-field use in Major League Baseball, and I appreciate Mr. Dolan’s acknowledgment that removing it from the on-field uniform by the start of the 2019 season is the right course.”

Phillip Yenyo, the executive director of the American Indian Movement of Ohio, cheered the decision as “another step in the right direction” but lamented that the move was being put off for a year.

“Why wait?” he said. “If you are going to go this far and get rid of it, why not do it now? All they are doing is testing it out, because the name has to go, too. The nickname absolutely has to go. It’s not just the logo.”
[/QUOTE]

[url=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/sports/baseball/cleveland-indians-chief-wahoo-logo.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur]Source[/url]

[zakededodead]

I like this onion tweet I saw on the subject (even though I thought they weren't supposed to be real)

[url]https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/958113039663984642[/url]

[Grenadiac]

I don't know a single Native American who cares about this (or the Redskins) at all.

[Not DuCT]

No.

Fuck that

There is nothing shameful about Chief Wahoo.

[zakededodead]

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53094657]I don't know a single Native American who cares about this (or the Redskins) at all.[/QUOTE]

People on my reservation seem to care when it's brought up...

but you have [del]black[/del] red friends so you can't be racist.

[InfectedPotato]

[QUOTE=DuCT;53094731]No.

Fuck that

There is nothing shameful about Chief Wahoo.[/QUOTE]

Idk this looks pretty racist to me
[IMG]https://cdn.newsbusters.org/styles/blog_body-50/s3/images/chief-wahoo-logo.jpg[/IMG]

[AMOneEighty]

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53094657]I don't know a single Native American who cares about this (or the Redskins) at all.[/QUOTE]

A few of my Native friends are pretty happy to hear about this.

I'm pretty indifferent but I understand the reason for it.

[Alec W]

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53094657]I don't know a single Native American who cares about this (or the Redskins) at all.[/QUOTE]

I know quite a few.

It's good to step away from characterizations like this.

[Johnny Joe]

Notre Dame Fighting Irish and Minnesota Vikings logo abandonment when?

[Flameon]

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53094833]Notre Dame Fighting Irish and Minnesota Vikings logo abandonment when?[/QUOTE]
when enough Irish or enough Vikings complain about it and explain why they find it offensive i see no reason to keep it around

[Anteep]

[QUOTE=Flameon;53094841]when enough Irish or enough Vikings complain about it and explain why they find it offensive i see no reason to keep it around[/QUOTE]

isnt the problem with this and the redskins incident that its actually not natives complaining about its, its just silly people who have no ties to the natives?

[Wafflemonstr]

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53094833]Notre Dame Fighting Irish and Minnesota Vikings logo abandonment when?[/QUOTE]

Vikings existed and no loner exist, they're not called the Minnesota Swedes, Norwegians, or Danes and have that logo.

Leprechauns do not exist, and were a creation of Irish people regardless.

Native Americans exist, and [I]never[/I] looked like that piece of shit logo so stop trying to compare things that are incomparable.

[InfectedPotato]

[QUOTE=Anteep;53094856]isnt the problem with this and the redskins incident that its actually not natives complaining about its, its just silly people who have no ties to the natives?[/QUOTE]

...no, there are a lot of Native American organizations that have voiced their distaste against the use of branded stereotypes against them. Thats one of the big reasons why this is happening now.

Also I wouldnt exactly call people who are concerned about a racism issue "silly". Thats how these things get pushed back and not viewed as a serious issue.

[Johnny Joe]

[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;53094865]

Leprechauns do not exist, and were a creation of Irish people regardless.

[/QUOTE]

Then why not call them the Fighting Leprechauns, why represent all Irish people as a tiny angry nymph?

Also, as a mixed race Scandanavian I find that the representation of my people's common historical forerunner as rapacious raiders fairly offensive.

[Chronitonity]

[QUOTE=Anteep;53094856]isnt the problem with this and the redskins incident that its actually not natives complaining about its, its just silly people who have no ties to the natives?[/QUOTE]

Thats usually the biggest defense in keeping it is that "well real Native Americans dont care!"

[QUOTE=The Article in the OP]Phillip Yenyo, the executive director of the American Indian Movement of Ohio, cheered the decision as “another step in the right direction” but lamented that the move was being put off for a year[/QUOTE]

So yeah obviously they do care

[Zillamaster55]

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53094833]Notre Dame Fighting Irish and Minnesota Vikings logo abandonment when?[/QUOTE]

Okay as someone of Irish and Swedish descent, those logos aren't stereotypical caricatures.

The Vikings one is just a dude in a horned helmet with a huge 'stache, and the Fighting Irish is a Leprechaun (a fictional creature) ready to go with fisticuffs.

After some examination, I'm okay with changing the logos/names in some regards.

[cdr248]

Redskins is kinda like if the Yankees were historically owned by black people and the team was called The New York Crackers instead.

The owners now might not be racist, and cracker isn't the most derogatory or most used term, but it's still fucken weird.

[benwaddi]

[QUOTE=cdr248;53094893]Redskins is kinda like if the Yankees were historically owned by black people and the team was called The New York Crackers instead.[/QUOTE]

[t]https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/v08AAOSw-0xYUbqf/s-l300.jpg[/t]

Some of the old Negro League names weren't the most creative :v:

[Grenadiac]

[QUOTE=zakedodead;53094789]People on my reservation seem to care when it's brought up...

but you have [del]black[/del] red friends so you can't be racist.[/QUOTE]

That's not what I said. If the Native Americans I know don't feel profiled by it, why the fuck should I get up in arms about it for them? "Silly indians, don't you know you're supposed to be offended by this? Here, let me lead the charge for you!"

They have just as much right to their opinions as you do and yours isn't better than theirs just because you're taking a more actively offended stance. This mentality that white people need to coddle minorities and show them what's offensive to them is fucking ridiculous. If they felt singled out and harmed by it, as their friend, I would be right there with them arguing for its elimination. But they don't. What do you expect me to do about that?

[Alec W]

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53094982]That's not what I said. If the Native Americans I know don't feel profiled by it, why the fuck should I get up in arms about it for them? "Silly indians, don't you know you're supposed to be offended by this? Here, let me lead the charge for you!"

They have just as much right to their opinions as you do and yours isn't better than theirs just because you're taking a more actively offended stance.[/QUOTE]

Since you said the Native Americans you know don't feel profiled by it - guess what;
You don't need to be up in arms at all if you don't want to be. You [B]can[/B] choose to not have an opinion. That's your apparent privilege, because this portrayal doesn't impact you or anyone you know apparently.

You have a right to an opinion on this, but this also literally isn't your business if you don't care. lol.

[Grenadiac]

[QUOTE=Alec W;53095011]Since you said the Native Americans you know don't feel profiled by it - guess what;
You don't need to be up in arms at all if you don't want to be. You [B]can[/B] choose to not have an opinion. That's your apparent privilege, because this portrayal doesn't impact you or anyone you know apparently.

You have a right to an opinion on this, but this also literally isn't your business if you don't care. lol.[/QUOTE]

That's fine. I commented on a news article with my relevant experience, just like you did. I don't care if they do anything about it or not. My opinion, based on the opinions of my Native American friends, is that this issue is being massively overblown. That's it. I'm not going to lose sleep or cry about PC culture if it goes away. I just think this is much ado about nothing, which reflects my actual experience with the people who "should" be affected by it.

All I said was that nobody I know cares about it even though the media is acting like this is some huge deal offending Native Americans everywhere. How is that not relevant input?

I'm not going to be painted as a racist over this, get a grip.

[Thelurker1234]

That's just taking bad sampling and acting as if it's representative or useful in any way.

[Alec W]

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53095017]That's fine. I commented on a news article with my relevant experience, just like you did. I don't care if they do anything about it or not. My opinion, based on the opinions of my Native American friends, is that this issue is being massively overblown. That's it. I'm not going to lose sleep or cry about PC culture if it goes away. I just think this is much ado about nothing, which reflects my actual experience with the people who "should" be affected by it.

All I said was that nobody I know cares about it even though the media is acting like this is some huge deal offending Native Americans everywhere. How is that not relevant input?

I'm not going to be painted as a racist over this, get a grip.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately for your opinion on the matter there are more Native Americans than your friends.
Not painting you as a racist.

I'd also like to point out that Chief Wahoo is part of an exhibit at the Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia, and has been the target of protesting and movements since [B]1971.[/B]
In addition - The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights released an advisory opinion against the use of Native American mascots by non-native teams.

If anything this is an issue that has been swept under the rug since forever, not overblown by media.

[Grenadiac]

[QUOTE=Alec W;53095060]Unfortunately for your opinion on the matter there are more Native Americans than your friends.
Not painting you as a racist.

I'd also like to point out that Chief Wahoo is part of an exhibit at the Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia, and has been the target of protesting and movements since [B]1971.[/B]
In addition - The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights released an advisory opinion against the use of Native American mascots by non-native teams.

If anything this is an issue that has been swept under the rug since forever, not overblown by media.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=zakedodead;53094789]People on my reservation seem to care when it's brought up...

but you have [del]black[/del] red friends so you can't be racist.[/QUOTE]

You may not be, but this guy is.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;53095057]That's just taking bad sampling and acting as if it's representative or useful in any way.[/QUOTE]

Maybe I should have used more words. "I'm surprised this is an issue. I was under the impression from the Native Americans that I know that they didn't actually find this offensive."

You guys will take any opportunity to jump on people, it's absurd.

[Carlito]

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53095068]You may not be, but this guy is.

Maybe I should have used more words. "I'm surprised this is an issue. I was under the impression from the Native Americans that I know that they didn't actually find this offensive."

You guys will take any opportunity to jump on people, it's absurd.[/QUOTE]

You're surprised it was an issue even though it's been in the news for years? People are jumping on you because you said something silly, don't get too offended, it happens to everyone.

[Dumpus]

I don't think this is as big a deal as either side will make it.
This isn't some big win against racism. This is a team finally changing it's branding so that it'll have more mainstream appeal at the expense of people who want to keep the name and logo (mostly) for tradition.
And for the same reasons it isn't some sjw attack on free speech.

[153x]

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53094833]Notre Dame Fighting Irish and Minnesota Vikings logo abandonment when?[/QUOTE]

Except we didn't commit genocide against them, steal their land and then use a racist caricature of them to sell baseball tickets

Here's something I read this morning from a native american artist that put things into perspective:

[quote]Upto that point the terms like “redskins”, “Indians” and “savages” never really bothered me. the old saying -“stick and stone may break my bones, but names will never hurt me”. Was my motto.
It’s wasn’t until I stood by my Sioux brothers at Standing Rock, where sticks, stones, concussion grenades, rifles and mace, were actually used to break us. And these terms where used to label us while bones were being broke.
I pondered on this extensively. And realized that maybe there’s something more to it. I thought about the opposing side, just like the elders asked. Putting myself in their shoes. And I also watched as natives fought to remove those terms from mascots and official documents.
I realized something.
These terms were feeding the root of the problem.
To many I was a redskin, Indian, a savage. And why wouldn’t I be, when it was so acceptable. These wonderful elders that spoke of peace and forgiveness while being incarcerated, beat, stripped down, Maced, demoralized... were also the “ redskins, Indians, savages”. The mothers that stood at the front were too.
I was there. I witness this with my own eyes as they filled with tears and my heart with pain. As I asked how could someone treat another human this way?
Well maybe, just maybe it could be how natives are referred to by the world. Maybe if we could be actually recognized enough to change a silly mascot then other things would fall in line. Maybe this could help for my wonderful brothers and sisters to heal and feel relevant.
I love them. All of them. They are relevant to me!
Today we have a step in the right direction. The logo will be removed! Thank you. Thank you for listening thank you for healing. Thank you for being bigger than the rest of the industry. Thank you for being human. [/quote]

[Johnny Joe]

[QUOTE=153x;53095657]Except we didn't commit genocide against them, steal their land and then use a racist caricature of them to sell baseball tickets

[/QUOTE]

I wasn't aware that that somehow made the Irish caricature any less insensitive.

[153x]

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53095667]I wasn't aware that that somehow made the Irish caricature any less insensitive.[/QUOTE]

The leprechaun is a mythical creature. It's edging on being insensitive, sure, but the Redskins mascot is just outright racist

[editline].[/editline]

This is also a good example of why context is important. If we slaughtered the population of Ireland to near non-existence and continued to harass the remaining population even still to this day, we would be having a different discussion

[Johnny Joe]

[QUOTE=153x;53095688]The leprechaun is a mythical creature. It's edging on being insensitive, sure, but the Redskins mascot is just outright racist[/QUOTE]

So representing a whole race as a cartoonish interpretation of a mythical creature which also incorporates the stereotype of the angry and looking for a fight irishman is just a wee bit insensitive but a big smiley man is just plain racism.

[QUOTE=153x;53095688]

[editline].[/editline]

This is also a good example of why context is important. If we slaughtered the population of Ireland to near non-existence and continued to harass the remaining population even still to this day, we would be having a different discussion[/QUOTE]

Why should this matter, racism is racism.