A PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds player was falsely banned for stream sniping

[Mattk50]

[URL="https://www.pcgamesn.com/playerunknowns-battlegrounds/playerunknowns-battlegrounds-stream-snipe-ban-lotoe"]Source[/URL]
[QUOTE]Last night, two popular Counter-Strike-turned-PUBG streamers, Shroud and Summit1G, were duoing together. They were killed by a group of stream snipers a couple of times and were understandably a bit annoyed about it. After a short gunfight in which Summit died but Shroud took their mutual opponent out, Lotoe strolled up and killed Shroud.

“I was just outrunning the blue [the name given to PUBG’s ever-decreasing kill field] trying to get to the edge of the circle, which was [next to] the fight that Summit and Shroud were having with a duo of stream snipers,” Lotoe explains to me via Discord. “[I] heard all the shots being fired so I went to go [and] get some loot. When I got there, Shroud killed some guy on a hill and went to go loot him and get out of the blue, which is when I shot and killed him.”

You can see it from Shroud’s perspective in this (rather explicit) Twitch clip. Lotoe says that about 20 seconds after that he got sniped himself. He then loaded into another game, eventually died, and was booted to a screen that said he was banned. The assumption is that mass reporting from stream viewers - a fairly common practice - led to the ban.

Lotoe then got in contact with Hawkinz via Discord, a community coordinator for the game, who told him that the ban was for stream sniping and would last seven days. As Lotoe explained then and to me, “I don't even watch Twitch, if I do it’s normally some ESL thing or whatever.”[/QUOTE]

While pubg is one of a few games where stream sniping is probably disruptive enough to be worth preventing, it's still silly that they don't just put a delay on their stream and blur their match number. Why would they though, when they can just successfully use their viewer horde to get people that kill them banned. :speechless:

[Mr Skeltal]

I've heard about someone being banned for team killing (their friends), now this? I dunno if I want to buy this game anymore. I was thinking about it, but if you can't goof around without getting banned, what's the point?

[Patrick]

[QUOTE=IliekBoxes;52518207]I've heard about someone being banned for team killing (their friends), now this? I dunno if I want to buy this game anymore. I was thinking about it, but if you can't goof around without getting banned, what's the point?[/QUOTE]

yeah man fuck any game that doesn't let me stream snipe or team kill

[bitches]

[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;52518213]yeah man fuck any game that doesn't let me stream snipe or team kill[/QUOTE]

fuck any game that takes the word of angry twitch viewers as proof of cheating

[Elowin]

[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;52518213]yeah man fuck any game that doesn't let me stream snipe or team kill[/QUOTE]

when its with your friends and youre just goofing around its kinda shit

[Mattk50]

[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;52518213]yeah man fuck any game that doesn't let me stream snipe or team kill[/QUOTE]

The pvp sandbox genre (think eve-online and similar) is enjoyed by quite a few people, i think plenty of people do just that. People who want to stream snipe should stick to games where its allowed(and completely ignore twitch's silly no sniping rule) but this thread demonstrates how you can get banned just for killing someone popular.

[Raidyr]

I don't think stream sniping should be bannable anyway but is there any way to actually prove he was stream sniped?

[Reaper33]

[QUOTE=Community Manager50;52518235]Hi everyone.

First of all, as the lead community manager, I apologize for not addressing the recent issues earlier.

For team-killing and stream sniping, we require evidence to be submitted as with all reports against players. We do not ban players based on what we see on social media or streaming platforms ourselves. We ask players to submit reports with evidence on our forums which is a temporary measure. We take action when the evidence is sufficient to warrant a ban.

The current rules and ban process are not final. Our community team is doing the best to ban users that do not play fair or ruin the experience of others. However, we do not have a perfect system. So our appeals system was put in place to ensure that there are checks and balances regarding all and any bans, and to allow us to rectify any mistakes that may have been made. Recently, I have realized that this may not be enough.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused by the current system. We don't have an automated system to ban players who violate our Rules of Conduct yet. But in the future, our team will work with the engineering & platform team to implement tools and systems to effectively address the issues that could ruin anyone's experience in the game. We're currently designing the new systems.

If a ban has been issued incorrectly, we will admit our mistake and lift the ban. However, it may take some time for us if there is no evidence to prove the banned user's point. We need to make sure by looking into in-game data.

I apologize again if you have been frustrated with recent events or lack of communication. But it is our best interest to improve current systems to create a better environment for everyone and better serve our community.

Thank you.

Lead Community Manager

Sammie Kang[/QUOTE]

They issued a statement

[thepwnwar]

It's absurd to try and prevent stream sniping and it's self imposed handicap that streamers need to mitigate. Streaming however is not only a source of income for a lucky minority but also increasingly a marketing tool due the way that interactions are made. So if the quality of those games are impacted the bottom line suffers.

End of the day while there are some forms of stream sniping that cannot be prevented (Hearthstone card checking, Overwatch hero checking at start of game) There needs to be direct countermeasures within the videos themselves to obfuscate useful information to a sniper without compromising the ability to watch.

[bitches]

[QUOTE=Reaper33;52518243]They issued a statement[/QUOTE]

But what was the "evidence"?

[Mattk50]

[QUOTE=Reaper33;52518243]They issued a statement[/QUOTE]

kinda just a blame deflection. Especially the "If a ban has been issued incorrectly, we will admit our mistake and lift the ban. However, it may take some time for us if there is no evidence to prove the banned user's point. We need to make sure by looking into in-game data." sounds like guilty before proven innocent when it comes to stream sniping.

[UncaringNonchala]

[QUOTE=bitches;52518262]But what was the "evidence"?[/QUOTE]

Streamer died and threw a fit, consisting of "fucking stream snipers, man!!!"

[Richiee]

why does every game of this genre have shit devs? It seems like every time a game like this becomes popular the devs ruin it and everyone jumps to the next game.

[hobo4president]

i understand why they ban stream snipers. If more streamers play your game you get more money.

That said I think it's still retarded. The responsibility lies with the person publicly broadcasting their own location.

[Coldmute]

Banning team killers and stream snipers is fucking golden, especially for a game like this, and I love it. They just need to make sure they can actually prove it. So its a question of what evidence they have access to. Can they show the guy who did it was in their streams at the time? Do they have track of player movements and can show the guy made a direct line for the streamers? Things like that would be pretty definitive. But it gets a lot harder without stuff like that.

[editline]28th July 2017[/editline]

[QUOTE=ragin cajun;52518291]why does every game of this genre have shit devs? It seems like every time a game like this becomes popular the devs ruin it and everyone jumps to the next game.[/QUOTE]

Hardly being shit devs, making a mistake once in a while by accidentally banning someone, while not good, is hardly the sign of a shit dev.

[Curls]

[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;52518213]yeah man fuck any game that doesn't let me stream snipe or team kill[/QUOTE]

You can prevent these things in way smarter ways than banning people you know, through properly creating mechanics to avoid abuse, gameplay and otherwise

[Richiee]

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;52518298]Banning team killers and stream snipers is fucking golden, especially for a game like this, and I love it. They just need to make sure they can actually prove it. So its a question of what evidence they have access to. Can they show the guy who did it was in their streams at the time? Do they have track of player movements and can show the guy made a direct line for the streamers? Things like that would be pretty definitive. But it gets a lot harder without stuff like that.

[editline]28th July 2017[/editline]

Hardly being shit devs, making a mistake once in a while by accidentally banning someone, while not good, is hardly the sign of a shit dev.[/QUOTE]

Wasn't really trying to say they were bad right now but they've been making some questionable decisions. Hopefully they aren't going down that path as I'm pretty interested in this game

[angrytoadnoises]

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;52518298]
Hardly being shit devs, making a mistake once in a while by accidentally banning someone, while not good, is hardly the sign of a shit dev.[/QUOTE]

luckily as an aside from being ban happy when it comes to mundane stream trolling, [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1558389&p=52508017&viewfull=1#post52508017]they're proving themselves to be shit devs[/url] in other ways, don't you worry.

[DokVis]

I will not buy a game that bans you for stream snipping, since that's like banning me for singling out a friend in the same game.

[FuckOffEuroTrash]

[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;52518213]yeah man fuck any game that doesn't let me stream snipe or team kill[/QUOTE]

Yea, exactly. If you cant figure out an easy method to prevent stream sniping, then don't stream or don't bitch.

If youre going to ban for teamkilling, then why the fuck is the feature in the game?

[editline]29th July 2017[/editline]

[QUOTE=ragin cajun;52518291]why does every game of this genre have shit devs? It seems like every time a game like this becomes popular the devs ruin it and everyone jumps to the next game.[/QUOTE]

Games like this tend to grow too quick for devs to keep up with the playerbase.

Its a result of a game in alpha being sold and players expecting it to act like a finished product.

[zakededodead]

guys i was telling everyone where i was pver alltalk on the mic and i got killed pls ban

[c:]

This game is well beyond worth it. Ignore the shitty community. All Reddit does is jump on the hate bandwagon and blow shit out of proportion. I can't even go on there anymore because they're so insufferable.

[Daniel Smith]

Stream sniping is a thing now? Humans can be a little too creative...

[Matrix374]

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;52518509]Stream sniping is a thing now? Humans can be a little too creative...[/QUOTE]

Where have you been for the past few years?

[aznz888]

[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;52518394]I will not buy a game that bans you for stream snipping, since that's like banning me for singling out a friend in the same game.[/QUOTE]

Here's what stream sniping is like:

Imagine playing a round of CS against a friend. However, your friend has a bonus split-screen that shows what you see, which means they can see what weapons you have, how much ammo, where you are, etc.

Then that friend repeatedly kills you over and over, because they have a clear advantage by knowing where you'll be, what you're using, and where you're hiding. That's stream sniping.

edit:
are people dumbing this because i mentioned CS? ok then <generic FPS>

[waylander]

if streamers are such crybabys turn on stream delay, even 30 seconds to a minute is huge in pubg unless your a camping bitch

infact with 60 seconds delay itd make sniping pretty hard because people wouldnt be able to tell if they were in the same lobby, you could even just put up a overlay until you landed

[DokVis]

[QUOTE=aznz888;52518535]Here's what stream sniping is like:

Imagine playing a round of CS against a friend. However, your friend has a bonus split-screen that shows what you see, which means they can see what weapons you have, how much ammo, where you are, etc.

Then that friend repeatedly kills you over and over, because they have a clear advantage by knowing where you'll be, what you're using, and where you're hiding. That's stream sniping.[/QUOTE]

So splitscreen, I've dealt with it, if that's a problem then tell streamers to fucking put a delay on their streams.

[garbage ellie]

They want to appeal to streamers because they're the only thing keeping the game afloat

[BlackMageMari]

[QUOTE=Naught;52518584]They want to appeal to streamers because they're the only thing keeping the game afloat[/QUOTE]

I'm fairly sure what's keeping the game afloat is the fact that it's really fucking good and has rapidly spread by word of mouth - not streamers.

[Lowland]

Stream snipers are 110% pure cancer. So for a game that's as streamable as Battlegrounds, I understand that the devs want to discourage it as much as possible.

That said, banning people with no or little evidence is dumb.