Royal Navy chases Spanish patrol boat out of British waters off Gibraltar 48hrs after 'war' row - Sensationalist Headlines

[img]http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article10156497.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Royal-Navy-chases-Spanish-patrol-boat.jpg[/img] [b]HMS Scimitar on the left, near the Spanish patrol vessel.[/b] [quote]A Spanish naval vessel called the Infanta Christina sailed close to the Gibraltar coast this lunchtime - but HMS Scimitar demanded it leave immediately in wake of Brexit. The much smaller HMS Scimitar chased the much larger Spanish naval vessel, the Infanta Christina, out of British waters - ordering it to leave immediately. HMS Scimitar famously hit the headlines in November 2009 when it was accused of using the Spanish flag for machine gun target practice - and the British ambassador was forced to apologise to Spain.[/quote] [quote]The move also comes just hours after Spain told Britain to 'calm down' after Lord Michael Howard said he believed the PM would 'go to war' over the Rock like Margaret Thatcher did to defend the Falklands. Spain swiftly demanded that the Rock be returned to them when Britain finally quits the EU - which the UK swiftly responded would 'never happen'. [/quote] [quote]Photographs of the ship were taken by island resident David Parody on the mainland - who, according to MailOnline, claims it shows the vessel 'making incursions' into British waters.[/quote] [url=http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/royal-navy-chases-spanish-patrol-10156453]Mirror[/url] Spain tells us we need to calm down about this whole thing... So they send this

Spain would get their ass wooped by the UK.

If it is a military vessel going into British territorial waters off of Gibralter than the UK is well within their rights to demand that it leaves.

[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52058122]Spain would get their ass wooped by the UK.[/QUOTE] We'll get fucking destroyed being at war with the entirety of the EU, who's sided with Spain in this. Besides Spain doesn't want war in the slightest despite what our right wing shit rags would have you believe.

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52058129]We'll get fucking destroyed being at war with the entirety of the EU, who's sided with Spain in this. Besides Spain doesn't want war in the slightest despite what our right wing shit rags would have you believe.[/QUOTE] Depends who fires the first shot really, I agree it's unlikely we will go to war but Spain loves to dickwave and something could go wrong

[QUOTE=joshthesmith;52058132]Depends who fires the first shot really, I agree it's unlikely we will go to war but Spain loves to dickwave and something could go wrong[/QUOTE] Not any less than the hard right wing of the Tories love to dick wave. The hard right in both countries will beat the war drums but everyone else won't want fuck all to do with this. It's stupid.

I swear to jesus if war comes out of this I will fucking cry. Both sides need to back down, Gibraltar wants to be part if the UK as of the last poll. I see it as settled.

People have to take a chill pill, we wouldn't go to war with Spain over Gibraltar unless Spain was dead set on actually taking it from us by force, what is a simple "Military ship you have no reason to be here please leave." (which is commonplace by the way and has happened many times previously) is being taken as war-talk.

Spanish Armada 2.0: Brexit boogaloo

Spain'd loose the war anyway because their effective fighting time is cut in half due to excessive siestas. Though the UK's got tea to worry about but I think they'd be able to wrap the war up right in time for tea.

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52058129]We'll get fucking destroyed being at war with the entirety of the EU, who's sided with Spain in this. Besides Spain doesn't want war in the slightest despite what our right wing shit rags would have you believe.[/QUOTE] The EU is not an military alliance, NATO is. And if Spain fire first, they won't help them. NATO will unlikely aid either one, since it's a conflict between two member states.

What a hilarious picture. It's like the big German shepherds that are scared of noisy little chihuahuas.

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52058129]We'll get fucking destroyed being at war with the entirety of the EU, who's sided with Spain in this. Besides Spain doesn't want war in the slightest despite what our right wing shit rags would have you believe.[/QUOTE] The wildcard is us lot.

Ih wait this is a Mirror article. Theyre tabloid as fuck. Are they not banned?

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52058251]I swear to jesus if war comes out of this I will fucking cry. Both sides need to back down, Gibraltar wants to be part if the UK as of the last poll. I see it as settled.[/QUOTE] Curious why Gibraltar would rather stay with the UK through Brexit than join Spain. edit: yeesh I was genuinely curious, fuckin' hell.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52058444]Ih wait this is a Mirror article. Theyre tabloid as fuck. Are they not banned?[/QUOTE] Well [url=https://uk.news.yahoo.com/spanish-ship-chased-out-of-british-waters-off-gibraltar-by-royal-navy-boats-150039323.html]Yahoo[/url] had an article but I thought they weren't as reputable as the Mirror, so did [url=http://www.dhakatribune.com/world/europe/2017/04/04/spanish-ship-enters-gibraltar-waters-chased-uk-navy-vessel/]Dhahatribune[/url] and [url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2782586/Spanish-ship-carries-dangerous-manoeuvres-indisputably-British-Gibraltar-waters.html] DailyMail[/url] at the time of posting this article, however over those I ratherer the Mirror. If you want perhaps a more 'reputable' source then I would suggest [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gibraltar-spanish-ship-enters-uk-waters-illegally-brexit-government-a7666576.html]reading the independent's article[/url]. Although the news is all the same, point still stands Also I read the [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1559003]rules[/url] so no mention of which or which news sites shouldn't be reported on [editline]4th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;52058627]Curious why Gibraltar would rather stay with the UK through Brexit than join Spain.[/QUOTE] More than likely due to the fact they wouldn't want Spanish rule?

[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;52058627]Curious why Gibraltar would rather stay with the UK through Brexit than join Spain.[/QUOTE] Gibraltar has been part of the UK longer than it has been part of Spain, the UK is more important within both their national and historical positioning, they're as British as anyone from the mainland is what I'm saying, much like the case with the Falklands, they see themselves as British and want to stay as that. [QUOTE=joshthesmith;52058917]Well [url=https://uk.news.yahoo.com/spanish-ship-chased-out-of-british-waters-off-gibraltar-by-royal-navy-boats-150039323.html]Yahoo[/url] had an article but I thought they weren't as reputable as the Mirror, so did [url=http://www.dhakatribune.com/world/europe/2017/04/04/spanish-ship-enters-gibraltar-waters-chased-uk-navy-vessel/]Dhahatribune[/url] and [url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2782586/Spanish-ship-carries-dangerous-manoeuvres-indisputably-British-Gibraltar-waters.html] DailyMail[/url] at the time of posting this article, however over those I ratherer the Mirror. If you want perhaps a more 'reputable' source then I would suggest [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gibraltar-spanish-ship-enters-uk-waters-illegally-brexit-government-a7666576.html]reading the independent's article[/url]. Although the news is all the same, point still stands Also I read the [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1559003]rules[/url] so no mention of which or which news sites shouldn't be reported on[/QUOTE] I would recommend avoiding using tabloids as the main source (because they're tabloids), if you can find multiple sources that are related, append them to it. Yahoo news is a fairly alright source while DailyMail I'd shoot you for even using.

They are tabloids though, meant bring out the worst in us. Depends how you take it I just find Spain entirely ironic here

[QUOTE=joshthesmith;52059846]They are tabloids though, meant bring out the worst in us. Depends how you take it I just find Spain entirely ironic here[/QUOTE] Tabloids should never be taken into consideration for any kind of issue and should be left to die out. Idiots who regularly read tabloids is one of the many factors who made people vote leave

[QUOTE=Ctrl;52059883]Tabloids should never be taken into consideration for any kind of issue and should be left to die out. Idiots who regularly read tabloids is one of the many factors who made people vote leave[/QUOTE] Good job I did't vote then! I will stick by "Keep calm and carry on". As always, thing will get better. This is the UK after all!

[QUOTE=bdd458;52058125]If it is a military vessel going into British territorial waters off of Gibralter than the UK is well within their rights to demand that it leaves.[/QUOTE] While I do agree that the UK is in their rights here right now, the whole Gibraltar-territorial waters thing is a retarded idea. Anyone who thinks it's absolutely right that the UK should be able to just block off the strait of Gibraltar from anyone passing through just because it's "their waters" is completely mad, and already it is a massive problem for the Spanish fisherman and Spanish military to navigate their way through the straight because of it, and theoretically would be for any other Mediterranean power as well.. There needs to be some sort of deal here where the UK can't go "lolololol u can't go through the strait because we own this arbitrary piece of land, guess ur out of luck kiddo" to any nation's vessels trying to make their way through it.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;52060605]While I do agree that the UK is in their rights here right now, the whole Gibraltar-territorial waters thing is a retarded idea. Anyone who thinks it's absolutely right that the UK should be able to just block off the strait of Gibraltar from anyone passing through just because it's "their waters" is completely mad, and already it is a massive problem for the Spanish fisherman and Spanish military to navigate their way through the straight because of it, and theoretically would be for any other Mediterranean power as well.. There needs to be some sort of deal here where the UK can't go "lolololol u can't go through the strait because we own this arbitrary piece of land, guess ur out of luck kiddo" to any nation's vessels trying to make their way through it.[/QUOTE] It's not so much about the straight, but more about the surrounding waters and the fishing inside of them, which is still retarded since they go "lolololo, you can't still fish here since these are BRITISH waters, even though we're surrounded by Spanish ones and our little rock doesn't have the capability to take the full advantage of these resources :)"

Why would we have to give the rock back to Spain? We had it before we were part of the EU, no reason we can't keep it after it's gone.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;52060605]While I do agree that the UK is in their rights here right now, the whole Gibraltar-territorial waters thing is a retarded idea. Anyone who thinks it's absolutely right that the UK should be able to just block off the strait of Gibraltar from anyone passing through just because it's "their waters" is completely mad, and already it is a massive problem for the Spanish fisherman and Spanish military to navigate their way through the straight because of it, and theoretically would be for any other Mediterranean power as well.. There needs to be some sort of deal here where the UK can't go "lolololol u can't go through the strait because we own this arbitrary piece of land, guess ur out of luck kiddo" to any nation's vessels trying to make their way through it.[/QUOTE] I explained this to you in the previous thread. [QUOTE=bdd458;52038084]Read the 1982 UNCLOS Treaty sometime, you might realize then that the Straight of Gibralter is considered an International Straight, which guarantees"Transit Passage". In other words, everyone is allowed to go through the straights in their normal mode of operations (ex. A submurged Submarine. A merchant ship going to Italy etc...) it just has to be continuous and expeditious. You can't sit around loitering. The only issues come in the form of Territorial Waters, Contiguous Zones, and Exclusive Economic Zones. Not brushed up entirely on the situation in Gibralter but I'm pretty sure that those have been worked out in the region. Source: i took a class on that treaty, and its a major component of other classes I have to take for my degree.[/QUOTE] I'm going to give you some helpful links you so can do your own reading. First up, the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea or UNCLOS for short. [url]http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/unclos_e.pdf[/url] So first I'm going to describe how "lines in the water" are drawn roughly and what each Zone gives a state. So basically you have your baseline set by the baseline rules (only a couple of nautical miles out), then up to 12 nautical miles off of that for a "Territorial Sea" where a state does exercise sovereign control except in a couple of cases, mainly being innocent passage. Then you have Contiguous Zones (which go up to 24 Nautical Miles off of the baseline) where a nation has the ability to enforce its FISC regulations/laws. That would stand for Fiscal, Immigration, Sanitary, and Customs laws. Beyond that 24nm a nation may have up to 200 nm of "Exclusive Economic Zone", where they have almost no enforcement power of their laws - but they can however enforce that vessels from other nations do not fish etc... there, otherwise taking resources. Beyond that is the high seas. There's some complicated stuff about continental shelf but I'd rather not get into that because of the scope of this discussion. Relevent passages for International Straights and this discussion are [I]articles 34-44[/I]. All in Part 3 "[B]STRAITS USED FOR INTERNATIONAL NAVIGATION[/B]. This starts on page 30 of the PDF. What that states is as follows: That International Straights are a thing, that ALL nations have a right to Transit Passage through international straights (You don't idle in the waters, but you can go through in your normal mode of transportation. So for example again, a submarine that is submerged. This is one of the key differences from Innocent Passage in the Territorial Sea), that a nation can make sealanes and change traffic to make transit passage easier and safer, and that a nation whose waters contain an international straight can not stop people from using it. As a heads up, both Spain and the UK are party to the Treaty. The US is not party to it, but does observe it as law for pretty much everything. So, onto [B]Part 2: Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone[/B]. [I]Articles 17-24[/I]. For anything besides internal waters vessels have this lovely right called [I]Innocent Passage[/I] (internal waters are waters behind the baseline). Innocent passage says that a vessel can pass through, as long as they're doing so continuously and expeditiously. Or in other words, as the treaty says, [quote]"Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law."[/quote] Basically as long as you're not doing bad things which Article 19, subsection 2 lists, you're golden and have the full right to move through someone's territorial waters and CZ. Freedom of Navigation was a huge thing that the US fought for in the treaty, and we got it done. So I don't know where you're pulling this whole "they can't pass through!!" garbage from. [QUOTE=Ctrl;52060627]It's not so much about the straight, but more about the surrounding waters and the fishing inside of them, which is still retarded since they go "lolololo, you can't still fish here since these are BRITISH waters, even though we're surrounded by Spanish ones and our little rock doesn't have the capability to take the full advantage of these resources :)"[/QUOTE] That's how that works. Spain and the UK I'm assuming have worked together like other nations to draw lines that they both agree with and that comply with UNCLOS. It doesn't matter if you have the processing power or not, they help guarantee that you can't be fucked out of your own resources. Why do you think Iceland fought so hard for their fisheries during the latter half of the 20th century? The British had been fishing in Icelandic waters until Iceland said "fucking stop" and started cutting nets, ramming British ships, etc... since the UK was not recognizing their claims. Pre-UNCLOS of course. France has a couple islands in the North Atlantic off of Newfoundland, know what they get? Some rights regarding waters!!!!

[QUOTE=Ctrl;52060627]It's not so much about the straight, but more about the surrounding waters and the fishing inside of them, which is still retarded since they go "lolololo, you can't still fish here since these are BRITISH waters, even though we're surrounded by Spanish ones and our little rock doesn't have the capability to take the full advantage of these resources :)"[/QUOTE] Yes, God forbid a country should give a shit about their own resources.

[QUOTE=TestECull;52058367]The wildcard is us lot.[/QUOTE] No, not really. You'll sit back and do nothing because you won't want to antagonise the wrong side, like during the Falklands War. Not saying that we will go to war with Spain or that I want it, just that you guys are no wildcard.

I'm also not sure how Spain can - with a straight face - demand back Gibraltar as long as they control Cueta and Mellila.

[QUOTE=David29;52063017]I'm also not sure how Spain can - with a straight face - demand back Gibraltar as long as they control [B]Cueta and Mellila[/B].[/QUOTE] The problem of those two cities that Spain currently controls are now officially declared themselves as Autonomous cities within Spain since 1995. So pretty very much too late about that, except if UN step in and demanding Spain give those two cities back to Morocco (which even that nation is also hypocritical with their politics of invading someone else land). And I quickly researched that back in 2002 Moroccan Military did try similar idea by invading one of their island Perejil (enough that location offically control by no one) within day dubbed "Perejil Island Crisis" from Wikipedia called it? [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perejil_Island_crisis"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perejil_Island_crisis[/URL] [QUOTE=Reagy;52059290]Gibraltar has been part of the UK longer than it has been part of Spain, the UK is more important within both their national and historical positioning, they're as [B]British[/B] as anyone from the mainland is what I'm saying, much like the case with the Falklands, they see themselves as British and want to stay as that.[/QUOTE] Gibraltar's population is already like all colonies in real life have created their own culture (Gibraltarians), Language (Llanito, which is mix language of Spanish with English and somehow Genoese elements) and the majority of region's religious popluation are Catholic with Anglican minority. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar#Religion"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar#Religion[/URL], [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanito"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanito[/URL], [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltarians"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltarians[/URL] or [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Gibraltar"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Gibraltar[/URL] So I'm try saying that subregion is more Bi-cultural than pure British.

Aren't the chances of literal war between Spain and UK basically next to zero?