Police responding to shooting at Aztec High School - Sensationalist Headlines

[URL]http://www.kob.com/new-mexico-news/developing-active-shooter-situation-at-aztec-high-school/4698511/[/URL] [QUOTE]AZTEC, N.M. – Law enforcement in the Four Corners are responding to a shooting Thursday morning at Aztec High School in Aztec, New Mexico, San Juan County Sheriff Ken Christensen told KOB. SJCSO posted on Facebook shortly before 9 a.m. that the school is being evacuated. Parents are able to pick up their children at 516 and Mesa Verde. [/QUOTE] I'll update this post as more information becomes available. [URL]http://krqe.com/2017/12/07/police-responding-to-school-shooting-at-aztec-high-school/[/URL] [QUOTE] AZTEC, N.M. (KRQE) – The San Juan County Sheriff Department is responding to a shooting at Aztec High School in Aztec, NM. Officials tell us the shooter is in custody and it is not known how many people have been wounded. At this time the Lt. Kyle Lincoln from the San Juan County Sheriff Department is clearing the building and actively searching the school. [/QUOTE] [URL]http://www.koat.com/article/active-shooter-reported-at-aztec-high-school/14380005[/URL] [QUOTE] Aztec police tell KOAT the suspect in the shooting is dead. San Juan County posted to Facebook about the school being evacuated but did not confirm the shooting. [/QUOTE] EDIT: A source (Can't provide, but a combination of word of mouth and audio from a police scanner feed [URL]https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/26049/web[/URL]) claims 2 shooters, one of which dead, other in custody, 15 injured, and 3 (no idea if this includes the shooter) dead. [URL]https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/aztec-new-mexico-high-school-shotin_us_5a29652be4b0b185e539e866[/URL] [QUOTE]Officers in Aztec, New Mexico, responded to a shooting at Aztec High School on Thursday. Officials at the San Juan County Sheriff’s Office first told KRQE the shooter is in custody, though later reports given to KOAT indicate the suspect has since died. The extent of injuries in the school is unknown at this time. Calls to the Sheriff’s office weren’t immediately returned, but the department did confirm via Facebook the school was placed on lockdown and evacuated Thursday morning. [/QUOTE]

The problem isn't (just) guns, it's rampant bullying and abuse that gets overlooked or ignored by those who have the power to do something about it. Oh well, here comes the media firestorm about how guns need further regulation, rather than teachers and parents being held accountable for their childrens and students actions. [editline]7th December 2017[/editline] More kids are going to die because we keep dodging the actual problem, it pisses me off to no end.

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;52955039]The problem isn't guns, it's rampant bullying and abuse that gets overlooked or ignored by those who have the power to do something about it. Oh well, here comes the media firestorm about how guns need further regulation, rather than teachers and parents being held accountable for their childrens and students actions. [editline]7th December 2017[/editline] More kids are going to die because we keep dodging the actual problem, it pisses me off to no end.[/QUOTE] Depends. I think we need better regulation to prevent children from having access to firearms

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;52955039]The problem isn't guns, it's rampant bullying and abuse that gets overlooked or ignored by those who have the power to do something about it. Oh well, here comes the media firestorm about how guns need further regulation, rather than teachers and parents being held accountable for their childrens and students actions. [editline]7th December 2017[/editline] More kids are going to die because we keep dodging the actual problem, it pisses me off to no end.[/QUOTE] how easy is it to keep track of hundreds of children? can you really blame the "people who have the power to do something about it?"

[QUOTE=proboardslol;52955066]Depends. I think we need better regulation to prevent children from having access to firearms[/QUOTE] You can't stop mass stabbings or bombs by banning guns, or even keeping kids from running each other over, if a troubled child wants people dead, they'll figure out a way to make it happen. I'd rather kill the mindset they get locked into where they honestly believe violence is the only solution, rather than just minimize the tools they have available. Again, I'd rather fix the [I]real[/I] problem, than pretend the only problem is guns.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;52955066]Depends. I think we need better regulation to prevent children from having access to firearms[/QUOTE] And what would that be? Please elaborate.

Are you seriously implying that the reason other first world countries don't have similar gun homicide rates is because they've solved bullying? And not because gun proliferation has made firearms a go-to method for people? Fights and stabbings still happen in Britain, but that's because knives are more proliferated and are thus the go-to, stabbings are much less lethal.

[QUOTE=_Chewgum;52955093]how easy is it to keep track of hundreds of children? can you really blame the "people who have the power to do something about it?"[/QUOTE] There's ~300 million [i]registered[/i] guns in the US, are those going to be easier to keep track of than 41 million 13-19 year olds, who most likely live with a parent/guardian who can talk to them about the stresses of youth?

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;52955099]You can't stop mass stabbings or bombs by banning guns, or even keeping kids from running each other over, if a troubled child wants people dead, they'll figure out a way to make it happen. I'd rather kill the mindset they get locked into where they honestly believe violence is the only solution, rather than just minimize the tools they have available. Again, I'd rather fix the [I]real[/I] problem, than pretend the only problem is guns.[/QUOTE] It doesn't have to be one or the other, both are rampant problems? You're severly overestimating the capabilities of an angsty child, what do you mean they'll figure out a way to make it happen? Bullying is not a problem solely in the USA, but the number of school shootings is vastly disproportionate compared to the rest of the world and I think there's a reason for that.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52955106]Are you seriously implying that the reason other first world countries don't have similar gun homicide rates is because they've solved bullying? And not because gun proliferation has made firearms a go-to method for people?[/QUOTE] Just like cars, bomb, and knife attacks don't happen in these other countries. Doing something about the mentality that makes people do these attacks is a way more effective means of solving violence than focusing on the object by which they acted out the violence.

[QUOTE=Kigen;52955115]Just like cars and bomb attacks don't happen in these other countries. Doing something about the mentality that makes people do these attacks is a way more effective means of solving violence than focusing on the object by which they acted out the violence.[/QUOTE] You can have a high degree of both to achieve strong results.

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;52955039]The problem isn't guns, it's rampant bullying and abuse that gets overlooked or ignored by those who have the power to do something about it. Oh well, here comes the media firestorm about how guns need further regulation, rather than teachers and parents being held accountable for their childrens and students actions. [editline]7th December 2017[/editline] More kids are going to die because we keep dodging the actual problem, it pisses me off to no end.[/QUOTE] Dude we're the only developed nation with a mass shooting problem. Dont act like mass shootings only happen in schools too, they happen everywhere. Shouting "b-b-but bullying is the problem, not my guns!" Is ignoring the obvious issue at hand and solves nothing. This obsessive gun culture in the US has to fucking end.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52955119]You can have a high degree of both to achieve strong results.[/QUOTE] One solves the issue without affecting others. The other involves stripping the right of everyone in the country. Seems they aren't equal to me. Again, throw out the 4th and 5th amendments. It'd help the cops solve a lot more crimes faster.

[QUOTE=Bigstivie;52955120]Nigga we're the only developed nation with a mass shooting problem.[/QUOTE] We're the only developed nation with a spree-killing-in-schools problem of any sort. I'm disinclined to believe that guns are the only reason we see headlines like this when things like mass stabbings in schools don't seem to occur in other developed countries much at all. Edit: I readily admit that a prevalence of guns in the wrong hands makes mass attacks more lethal than they otherwise would be, but when other countries don't seem to have rampant problems with kids deciding to end their lives via public killing spree, it seems incredibly short-sighted and stupid to blame guns, call for gun control, and only pay lip service to figuring out the underlying factors that only seem to affect us. Like, it was abnormal when two Australian teens were caught planning an attack last week. Here attempts and successful attacks seem to occur all the time. Why do you think that is?

[QUOTE=Louis;52955114]It doesn't have to be one or the other, both are rampant problems? You're severly overestimating the capabilities of an angsty child, what do you mean they'll figure out a way to make it happen?[/QUOTE] I put my focus on the people and their mindset before I even worry about the tools they have at their disposal. I don't see why an "angsty child" would just give up on their rampage fantasies, just because they can't get a hold of a single tool out of many.

[QUOTE=Kigen;52955131]One solves the issue without affecting others. The other involves stripping the right of everyone in the country. Seems they aren't equal to me. Again, throw out the 4th and 5th amendments. It'd help the cops solve a lot more crimes faster.[/QUOTE] I didn't say ban guns outright tho lol. And one does not solve the issue. You can't just say "solve mental illness," we can try to use policy to ameliorate things. However, due to basic psychology of choice if guns are still proliferated as they are people will, more often, select them to commit violence.

[QUOTE=Bigstivie;52955120]Nigga we're the only developed nation with a mass shooting problem. Dont act like mass shootings only happen in schools too, they happen everywhere. Shouting "b-b-but bullying is the problem, not my guns!" Is ignoring the obvious issue at hand and solves nothing. This obsessive gun culture in the US has to fucking end.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1587274"]Really?[/URL] Also, don't miss out on my point that my concern is the mental wellness of people, as opposed to what they use to kill people.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52955142]I didn't say ban guns outright tho lol.[/QUOTE] No, what most people in your position say (not saying you directly, but assumptions n' all) is that we should have laws like they do in the UK or Australia. Where the legal possession is at the whim of the authorities who can deny it for whatever reason they want and also require you build a vault in your house. Basically making it prohibitively expensive for most to own weapons. This comes from a very different mindset were the possession and carrying of weapons is a privilege not a right. Whoever the shooter is would have violated no less than 5 different laws just on the possession of weapons. What exactly is the solution here?

[QUOTE=Kigen;52955154] Whoever the shooter is would have violated no less than 5 different laws just on the possession of weapons. [B]What exactly is the solution here?[/B][/QUOTE] Get rid of the reasons why people want to kill each other in the first place, that's why the concept of profiling exists, there's almost always a "reason" why somebody would want someone else dead. One of my best friends fell victim to a dating scheme a little over a year ago, he was kidnapped and taken into the middle of the woods, where he was beaten and crushed to death with sticks and rocks. Jeremy didn't deserve to die the way he did, but I feel like his death could have been prevented had he talked to his friends about his loneliness, rather than trying to meet up with some random chick he supposedly met on a dating app. "What could have been done before his death to prevent it?" is what I keep thinking about, not "why did they beat him to death with sticks and stones?"

[QUOTE=Kigen;52955115]Just like cars, bomb, and knife attacks don't happen in these other countries. Doing something about the mentality that makes people do these attacks is a way more effective means of solving violence than focusing on the object by which they acted out the violence.[/QUOTE] No guns seems to work for almost every other country in the world... [editline]7th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Kigen;52955154]Whoever the shooter is would have violated no less than 5 different laws just on the possession of weapons. What exactly is the solution here?[/QUOTE] Guns ought to be licensed and not a right. Amend the constitution to reflect this and require a mental health evaluation (and not just a background check; you must SEE a psychiatrist). Additionally, you must provide a valid reason for owning the gun. Additionally, no semi-automatic weapons (handguns, many rifles, etc.) I think this is about how it works in Europe.

[QUOTE=Kigen;52955154]No, what most people in your position say (not saying you directly, but assumptions n' all) is that we should have laws like they do in the UK or Australia. Where the legal possession is at the whim of the authorities who can deny it for whatever reason they want and also require you build a vault in your house. Basically making it prohibitively expensive for most to own weapons. This comes from a very different mindset were the possession and carrying of weapons is a privilege not a right. Whoever the shooter is would have violated no less than 5 different laws just on the possession of weapons. What exactly is the solution here?[/QUOTE] Carrying and bearing are essentially privileges in the US and have been pretty much forever. Rights are irrevocable. And I can't say that this individual wouldn't have; but evidence-based policy is not based on individual cases like this. It's based on statistics. I was pretty careful to state the proliferation is the problem, not fully laws in themselves. This is the most difficult aspect, really. As countries with relatively lax laws will still sometimes have low homicide rates like Switzerland, because guns are still relatively low per-capita and are mostly used for recreational purposes without much ammo. As well, the evidence in the US is rare and difficult to fund. This has a decent overview of a lot of what's [URL="https://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/1/140.full.pdf+html"]been attempted though[/URL]. In the long run, we probably will need some stricter controls on acquisition. Licensure, and tight restrictions on private flow of guns (people call this the "gun show loophole",) along with pigovian taxation on guns and ammo to discourage large amounts of ownership and usage. Gun buybacks do reduce the amount of guns too, albeit, it's usually low-risk people who participate. Just due to our history this will probably be a few decades before the US is in line with other countries in regards to gun homicides and suicide.

Whoa WHOA everyone needs to back the fuck up a second. First of all I don’t see anything identifying who the suspects are or what the motive is. Why are we just assuming it’s angsty teenagers with guns and trying to push narratives/start debates when nobody even has the full picture yet? This is getting stupid.

[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;52955254]Whoa WHOA everyone needs to back the fuck up a second. First of all I don’t see anything identifying who the suspects are or what the motive is. Why are we just assuming it’s angsty teenagers with guns and trying to push narratives/start debates when nobody even has the full picture yet? This is getting stupid.[/QUOTE] Either way, considering how touchy of an issue guns are in the US, it seems pretty agreeable that trying to remove the motives for shooting people is far more productive than trying to remove the weapons involved. Fix the root of the problem, whatever it is; the gun control debate isn't going to move any time soon.

CNN reporting 3 dead including shooter. No word on number injured or if the shooter was a student.

same arguments over and over again in these threads

[QUOTE=Orkel;52955523]same arguments over and over again in these threads[/QUOTE] I mean, I can't think of anything related to these shootings that has actually changed in the past few years aside from some mostly feel-good gun legislation. It seems pretty natural that we're all just repeating the same shit.

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;52955039]The problem isn't (just) guns, it's rampant bullying and abuse that gets overlooked or ignored by those who have the power to do something about it. Oh well, here comes the media firestorm about how guns need further regulation, rather than teachers and parents being held accountable for their childrens and students actions. [editline]7th December 2017[/editline] More kids are going to die because we keep dodging the actual problem, it pisses me off to no end.[/QUOTE] why not both? [editline]8th December 2017[/editline] every one of these types of threads people say that it's not a gun problem AT ALL and it's something else, when surely it's a bit of a gun problem aswell?

[QUOTE=Araknid;52958216]why not both? [editline]8th December 2017[/editline] every one of these types of threads people say that it's not a gun problem AT ALL and it's something else, when surely it's a bit of a gun problem aswell?[/QUOTE] Because guns are at fault in these scenarios just as much as a car is in a hit-and-run. But no one blames the car for being too big or easy to hit people with, they blame the driver, rightly so. The next step in that process would be to find out why the driver did what they did, and find out how to prevent that from happening again.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;52958370]Because guns are at fault in these scenarios just as much as a car is in a hit-and-run. But no one blames the car for being too big or easy to hit people with, they blame the driver, rightly so. The next step in that process would be to find out why the driver did what they did, and find out how to prevent that from happening again.[/QUOTE] Guns and cars are not comparable at all, always bothers me when people use the car argument in a gun thread.

I feel like restricting access to guns might have the same effect as restricting access to suicide methods, where deaths reduce despite other methods being available. Nobody can give 1 right answer to whether guns should be a privilege or a right. Culture alone means so much.