At least five dead in California elementary school shooting - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE]At least five people are dead, including a suspected gunman, and more were wounded in a series of shootings in Northern California, authorities said on Tuesday.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://thehill.com/homenews/news/360315-at-least-3-dead-in-calif-elementary-school-shooting[/URL] [URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2017/11/14/officials-say-at-least-3-dead-after-shooting-at-multiple-scenes-including-california-elementary-school/?tid=sm_Fb&utm_term=.5d34bd607c4f[/URL]

God damnit. Those poor kids are gonna be traumatized for life

the shooting reportedly started at a nearby house and made its way to the school. let's pray the lives lost doesn't rise any higher than it is now, it seems like things are under control from what i've read

According to the article only one wounded kid at the school. Seems like the person was moving around taking shots at whoever he came across. Good thing the cops got to him before he could do anything more.

Business as usual in the US. My condolences to the families of the victims.

[QUOTE=OvB;52890224]According to the article only one wounded kid at the school. Seems like the person was moving around taking shots at whoever he came across. Good thing the cops got to him before he could do anything more.[/QUOTE] thehill article has a video along with it says two kids, one with two wounds and one hit in the leg I hate this about early news coverage on shootings, so much conflicting info it gets confusing

[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52890230]Business as usual in the US. My condolences to the families of the victims.[/QUOTE] Something about the way this was worded leads me to believe this lacks a little sincerity.

[QUOTE=Sleepy Head;52890315]Something about the way this was worded leads me to believe this lacks a little sincerity.[/QUOTE] It does because there's nothing left in me that feels anything when I see these headlines. It has become business as usual. There's a shooting, we cry about it, and then the new cycle continues. After Sandyhook I've lost hope. I am sorry to the families but what's the point of thoughts and prayers?

[QUOTE=Sleepy Head;52890315]Something about the way this was worded leads me to believe this lacks a little sincerity.[/QUOTE] By all means not to be mean or cruel, but after a certain point it is exhausting to see things like this play out over and over again and not see any meaningful progress. It is, quite horrifyingly, business as usual in the US. I've seen so many shootings and seen people go through the same motions every single time. Condolences to the families of victims, we need to talk about guns, we need to not talk about guns, it's a mental health issue, seemingly no impactful legislation is passed to solve either problem, everyone stops talking about it for a few months until the [I]next[/I] shooting, and we do it all again. I'm not saying I don't feel sympathy for those affected in these instances, far from it, but a certain part of me has started to feel numb from how often this happens.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52890365]By all means not to be mean or cruel, but after a certain point it is exhausting to see things like this play out over and over again and not see any meaningful progress. It is, quite horrifyingly, business as usual in the US. I've seen so many shootings and seen people go through the same motions every single time. Condolences to the families of victims, we need to talk about guns, we need to not talk about guns, it's a mental health issue, seemingly no impactful legislation is passed to solve either problem, everyone stops talking about it for a few months until the [I]next[/I] shooting, and we do it all again. I'm not saying I don't feel sympathy for those affected in these instances, far from it, but a certain part of me has started to feel numb from how often this happens.[/QUOTE] Yea I'm sorry he articulates this much better than I have. This is what I meant by my posts

:snip:

[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52890351]It does because there's nothing left in me that feels anything when I see these headlines. It has become business as usual. There's a shooting, we cry about it, and then the new cycle continues. After Sandyhook I've lost hope. I am sorry to the families but what's the point of thoughts and prayers?[/QUOTE] There is no point to thoughts and prayers, so take action - actual action - instead of whining on internet forums. Push your lawmakers to attack sources of violence and unrest. Volunteer in social programs to help struggling kids and impoverished people. If you can't be bothered to do those things, don't bother complaining about how numb you feel, either. Even something as simple as listening to someone on the edge vent and being there for them can prevent pointless violence like this.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52890379]There is no point to thoughts and prayers, so take action - actual action - instead of whining on internet forums. Push your lawmakers to attack sources of violence and unrest. Join the real fight. If you can't be bothered to do that, don't bother complaining about how numb you feel, either.[/QUOTE] One thing that bothers me about go out and vote/message your lawmakers rhetoric is that telling people to do it isn't really motivating a lot of them. They know they can, but the problem is they don't feel like it will do anything either. They don't trust the system isn't stacked against them in such a way that their vote in practical terms means nothing, or don't believe even if their vote wins that it will result in any meaningful change whatsoever, or that their email won't just go in some intern's trash folder. All they hear when you go "GO OUT AND VOTE BECAUSE YOU [I]CAN[/I]" is a bunch of corny feelgood bullshit. I'd like to know about any actual studies/answers on how effective voting or emailing your representatives actually is. ESPECIALLY if you're pushing a 'left' viewpoint (for example, voting for Hillary, or pushing for gun legislation) in a conservative state like Texas.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52890408] I'd like to know about any actual studies/answers on how effective voting or emailing your representatives actually is. ESPECIALLY if you're pushing a 'left' viewpoint (for example, voting for Hillary, or pushing for gun legislation) in a conservative state like Texas.[/QUOTE] Probably very little. I live in a conservative constituency in the UK, and I consistently write to my MP about things. He (or his secretary, mostly) just writes back saying 'here's why you're wrong about that'.

[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52890351]It does because there's nothing left in me that feels anything when I see these headlines. It has become business as usual. There's a shooting, we cry about it, and then the new cycle continues. After Sandyhook I've lost hope. I am sorry to the families but what's the point of thoughts and prayers?[/QUOTE] Could you tone down the edgelord for at least one post? If you dont care, then dont post. Nobody cares to see your snide shitposting.

Y'know, its been said a lot of times and counter arguments have been brought up aswell and all but... Guns being so easy to get doesn't makes this any harder to happen.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52890530]Could you tone down the edgelord for at least one post? If you dont care, then dont post. Nobody cares to see your snide shitposting.[/QUOTE] There's much less substance in your post than his, imo. It breaks my heart when these incidents happen and I still really haven't become numb to them as some have, but its easy to become jaded and cynical to hopes that it doesnt happen again when we recycle empty words and condolences in the face of the reality that maybe this *is* the price we pay to live with our right to bear arms. Plenty of people are pressuring lawmakers to take action as Grenadiac said, but what really makes the biggest difference is getting people who care and who can pass effective and thoughtful legislation into office in the first place.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;52890547]Y'know, its been said a lot of times and counter arguments have been brought up aswell and all but... Guns being so easy to get doesn't makes this any harder to happen.[/QUOTE] Good thing California banned high capacity .30 calibre murderzine clips or a mass shooting might've happened, oh fucking wait. On whichever side of the gun control fence you fall, you all gotta recognise that a "gimped" gun is still a lethal weapon, as is grandad's hunting rifle

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52890408]One thing that bothers me about go out and vote/message your lawmakers rhetoric is that telling people to do it isn't really motivating a lot of them. They know they can, but the problem is they don't feel like it will do anything either. They don't trust the system isn't stacked against them in such a way that their vote in practical terms means nothing, or don't believe even if their vote wins that it will result in any meaningful change whatsoever, or that their email won't just go in some intern's trash folder. All they hear when you go "GO OUT AND VOTE BECAUSE YOU [I]CAN[/I]" is a bunch of corny feelgood bullshit. I'd like to know about any actual studies/answers on how effective voting or emailing your representatives actually is. ESPECIALLY if you're pushing a 'left' viewpoint (for example, voting for Hillary, or pushing for gun legislation) in a conservative state like Texas.[/QUOTE] I added some more - writing your congressman really is pretty pointless (I gave up on it several years ago personally) but you can try to steer them toward certain measures that will help (which some people have had success with, depending on the individual). I know our representatives in Texas are bought and paid for so nothing the constituency says will really sway them either way. Really taking hands-on action like working in social programs is the best way to guarantee you'll make a difference. My point is really that I think it's a bit asinine to sit on internet forums and wail about how nobody's doing anything... when a lot of our society's problems can be mitigated by people putting effort in to give back to their communities. With no word on the shooter's motives obviously I can't even begin to think of something more specific one could do to help, but I tried to be all inclusive. Volunteering in social programs to help combat poverty and drug abuse weakens gang culture, which is a big source of violence. A lot of your run of the mill psycho killers could probably have had their courses changed if people paid more attention to others around them, so being there for people who need it (be that family, coworkers, or even distressed-looking strangers) can help prevent senseless violence. There are other causes for this kind of thing but attacks on schools rarely, if ever, seem to be religiously motivated, so I left that out, but those cases are often caused by the perpetrator feeling attacked for something beyond his control (e.g. his religion) and lashing out at people he feels represent a source of that ostracization. Even if you really feel like guns need to be banned or heavily restricted or whatever you have to know that the war on violence doesn't end there. Why not take other steps while you work on larger goals?

Nothing will come out of this. Nothing ever comes out of this. People ask, people plead, people cry about changing something, trying anything to stop this but lawmakers aren't interested. They are just here to yell at each other in the name of future elections where they will drop any promises they are going to make soon (for n-th time) and do jackshit. It's horrifying isn't it?

[QUOTE=Damjen;52890602]Nothing will come out of this. Nothing ever comes out of this. People ask, people plead, people cry about changing something, trying anything to stop this but lawmakers aren't interested. They are just here to yell at each other in the name of future elections where they will drop any promises they are going to make soon (for n-th time) and do jackshit. It's horrifying isn't it?[/QUOTE] I mean, what would you suggest? There are more guns than people in the US. A lot of the shootings (and, likely, a good amount of the bigger picture of generic gun violence) this past year have been done with unlawfully acquired firearms, some that are illegal in the first place. The damage has been done, irrevocably so. That doesn't mean that there isn't effective legislation that *could* be passed regarding firearms, but it seems like lawmakers are missing the target no matter who's aiming.

If some sick bastard wants to go on a murder spree, there isn’t a whole lot somebody can do to stop that. Ban guns, they’ll make bombs. Ban cleaning products, they’ll use vehicles. Ban vehicles, they are going to run around with a fucking rock cracking people in the head. This last year proved that. It’s horrible, and my heart aches for the victims families and loved ones who’s beloved was taken from this world for NO REASON at all. But we need to attack the real problem, and that is finding a way to identify the monsters that are capable of these atrocious acts and ensure they are segregated very far away from society at the very least.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52890842]One side claims that gun bans are the only solution, the other side is so tired of hearing about how guns are evil that they declare "not one step back" and refuse to do anything regarding anything.[/QUOTE] Plus we've always had guns, but this didn't always happen with such frequency. The 2010's have had a significantly higher number of mass casualty attacks than the previous decades. And then there's the legislation they push, it's always the same god damn thing, rather than push for anything meaningful, they try to ban the sale of new "assault weapons". It didn't do anything for crime in '94, it won't do for crime anything now, that's because these "assault weapon" bills attack easy targets (legal owners) for easy re-election points. I blame declining social conditions and the media frenzy over every mass shooting. People are out there thinking mass shootings are the biggest cause of gun crime, yet as far as real gun crime goes, they're barely a blip on the radar. You wouldn't know that by watching the news, aside from occasional scare pieces about how gangbangers are using the Fourth of July to carry out hits, you never really hear them report on common gun crime. [editline]14th November 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RichyZ;52891015]im assuming the glaring elephant in the room is mental healthcare, an issue that the pro-gun side (on a political official level) generally doesn't give a fuck about until its a shield against anti-gun legislation[/QUOTE] Don't lump all pro-gun in with Republicans. Heck, don't lump anyone in with Republicans or Democrats. Neither side's representatives seem to care at all, Democrats put forth another shitty assault weapons ban for brownie points, and the Republicans shoot it down for brownie points. Neither side is interested in a real solution, because that takes effort and is politically inconvenient to both sides.

As with most things, tragedies like these are the result of a combination of several factors. Some things made it worse, some prevented further deaths. You can't pinpoint a single root cause and say "that's it, there's nothing else we need to tackle". There are several ways you can reduce these events. To pick a single issue out of all of them and conclude that nothing needs to be done about anything else is delusion.

Hearing reports that this guy had some domestic violence issues the day before, and had been charged and booked a half dozen times previously. Neighbor also says he was a felon. What the fuck

Today in minneola FL, another possible shooting happened about 2 miles from me, but the boy took his own life with a gun instead of shooting anyone.

[QUOTE=Morbo!!!;52890583]Good thing California banned high capacity .30 calibre murderzine clips or a mass shooting might've happened, oh fucking wait. On whichever side of the gun control fence you fall, you all gotta recognise that a "gimped" gun is still a lethal weapon, as is grandad's hunting rifle[/QUOTE] Actually, I fall more on the side of actually restricting gun ownership altogether than idiotic bans made by people who expect a pistol to be able to kill 100 people without ever reloading.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;52891216]Actually, I fall more on the side of actually restricting gun ownership altogether than idiotic bans made by people who expect a pistol to be able to kill 100 people without ever reloading.[/QUOTE] Wasn't directed toward you specifically, but this is my point - If you're against private ownership of firearms, you should be against private ownership of [I]any[/I] firearms. The nature of firearms is that they spout chunks of metal heavy enough and at high enough velocities to be fatal, which renders an otherwise unarmed individual fucked whether it's some stupid break-action, single-shot .22, or a belt-fed automatic in the hands of the person trying to kill them - Arbitrary restrictions on furniture and capacity and imo even select-fire capability or emulation thereof don't change that fact. If someone isn't okay with private ownership of a semi-auto AR I don't see why they'd be fine with private ownership of a break-action shotgun.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52890842]Pretty easy to see why nothing's getting done when the one party stating that we have a problem is looking past the problem and saying "THAT'S IT, THAT OVER THERE" rather than the GLARING elephant in the room.[/QUOTE] so what's this "GLARING" elephant in the room? what's enabling all these shootings other than guns being so readily available?

[QUOTE=Eric95;52891488]so what's the elephant in the room? what's enabling all these shootings other than guns being so readily available?[/QUOTE] As I said above, the uptick in shootings is recent, while the availability hasn't changed. Gun laws have only been strengthened over time, so it's not that either. In my opinion it's media glorification of shootings and worsening social conditions that are driving more people to do it. Social outcasts are increasingly seeing mass shootings as a way to get back at the society that rejected them, or bloodthirsty psychopaths who are seeing it as an alternative to the slower and more personal serial killing. There are also terrorist attacks, those are a separate issue unrelated to the others.