Worth every damn penny, it's better than its competition AAA title diablo 3 imo
[QUOTE=Sir Spicy Buns;39071223]Worth every damn penny, it's better than its competition AAA title diablo 3 imo[/QUOTE]
Not disagreeing with you, just asking why you think so.
Is it more fun to play, are there more abilities, etc.?
Even though I did about one playthrough of this, it was an excellent game and worth every penny.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;39071618]more depth, better developers, higher players per game, less dependent on beating the game multiple times to get the full experience, higher level cap, pets[/QUOTE]
Awesome, thanks.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;39071618][B]more depth[/B], better developers, higher players per game, less dependent on beating the game multiple times to get the full experience, higher level cap, pets[/QUOTE]
eh
I disagree, I felt like the D3 skill system was a nice change of pace from the until-then standard ARPG fare of working down a tree and getting a selection of actives and passives. Plus a lot of the abilities in D3 were really fun to use.
I really [B][I]really[/I][/B] like this game, but I got bored of it, because the sheer length of the first chapter.
[QUOTE=Selek;39071595]Not disagreeing with you, just asking why you think so.
Is it more fun to play, are there more abilities, etc.?[/QUOTE]
More fun to play, I dunno. People swear it is but none of the people I know who bought TL2 played it for near as long as they played Diablo 3, even the fanboys. I played the demo and beta and felt it was rather boring. The artstyle is too flat and the abilities aren't particularly exciting. I only played the first part of the game though. Personally I felt Diablo 3 was more fun but not by much. They are very similar games where you hit monsters with swords.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;39072707]More fun to play, I dunno. People swear it is but none of the people I know who bought TL2 played it for near as long as they played Diablo 3, even the fanboys. I played the demo and beta and felt it was rather boring. The artstyle is too flat and the abilities aren't particularly exciting. I only played the first part of the game though. Personally I felt Diablo 3 was more fun but not by much. They are very similar games where you hit monsters with swords.[/QUOTE]
I played both through one run through of the campaign on both. I feel TL2 the superior game but I played it more recently. Certainly is more friendly to offline play and such and NOT having real money in it is a plus to me.
Well I have a reliable internet connection and didn't use the auction house anyway because I find it defeats the point of a lootrun game anyway.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;39072526]I disagree, I felt like the D3 skill system was a nice change of pace from the until-then standard ARPG fare of working down a tree and getting a selection of actives and passives. Plus a lot of the abilities in D3 were really fun to use.[/QUOTE]
D3's "skill system" was just everyone gets the same skills at the same level and you choose which ones you use. As far as game design depth, that's like picking which guns you want to use before a match of call of duty :v:
I mean there was a bit of customization with runes but overall D3 was such a massive disappointment that after beating the campaign on a friend's copy I was no longer interested. There was no point in continuing on, my character was the same as every other witch doctor of the same level, and I'd already seen the storyline.
Oh, and there's going to be mod tools for torchlight 2 although I've been pretty disappointed with how long they've taken I'm sure that'll add a lot of really cool yet very poorly balanced content to the game
How is that at all different from two Berserkers in Torchlight going down the same tree?
Also by a "bit of customization with runes" you mean most abilities had runes that completely changed the way abilities work? As far as combat depth D3 is second to none, and I don't even like the game that much. It's just a matter of numbers.
[editline]2nd January 2013[/editline]
And your anecdotes cool and all but I played Diablo 3 for 120 hours which consisted of a Monk playthrough of Inferno and a Demon Hunter through Hell. Meanwhile I couldn't get more than a couple hours into Torchlight 2 without being bored. But again, that was mostly the art style. The gameplay itself is decent as far as action RPGs go, I just disagree with the assertion that it's deeper than Diablo 3, or even Diablo 2 to an extent.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;39074436]How is that at all different from two Berserkers in Torchlight going down the same tree?
Also by a "bit of customization with runes" you mean most abilities had runes that completely changed the way abilities work? As far as combat depth D3 is second to none, and I don't even like the game that much. It's just a matter of numbers.
[editline]2nd January 2013[/editline]
And your anecdotes cool and all but I played Diablo 3 for 120 hours which consisted of a Monk playthrough of Inferno and a Demon Hunter through Hell. Meanwhile I couldn't get more than a couple hours into Torchlight 2 without being bored. But again, that was mostly the art style. The gameplay itself is decent as far as action RPGs go, I just disagree with the assertion that it's deeper than Diablo 3, or even Diablo 2 to an extent.[/QUOTE]
Uhm, it's different because you get to choose which skill you want? It's not some kind of linear path you have to choose if you want to go down a "tree" (which you don't, that's ludicrous. your skills are even more open in T2 than they were in D2). I have an engineer which is built 100% support, that can generate shields for 34k health whereas most players don't have more than 8k. As well as that I can renegerate party members HP/MP and buff them. Another player playing engineer might have none of this, and be totally effective in a different way. One of my friend's has one that's full offense, and does quite a bit of good AOE DPS. It's true runes do add a slight amount (basically the only) customization, and some of the runes are actually a pretty neat change, but a lot are just basic buffs and on the whole it's nowhere near as good as being able to customize your character's every stat and skill advancement
So no, D3 has nowhere near the depth of torchlight in terms of character customization pretty much factually, and it's fine if you like it better that way but it's not going to change it being simplified and casual
[QUOTE=Elspin;39074844]Uhm, it's different because you get to choose which skill you want? It's not some kind of linear path you have to choose if you want to go down a "tree" (which you don't, that's ludicrous. your skills are even more open in T2 than they were in D2). I have an engineer which is built 100% support, that can generate shields for 34k health whereas most players don't have more than 8k. As well as that I can renegerate party members HP/MP and buff them. Another player playing engineer might have none of this, and be totally effective in a different way. One of my friend's has one that's full offense, and does quite a bit of good AOE DPS. It's true runes do add a slight amount (basically the only) customization, and some of the runes are actually a pretty neat change, but a lot are just basic buffs and on the whole it's nowhere near as good as being able to customize your character's every stat and skill advancement[/QUOTE]
You can do the same in Diablo 3 though??? My monk can be a healer a tank or just raw damage dealer. The only difference is that I'm not pigeonholed into a role by skill trees. I can change what abilities I want from a list and combine those with runes to do whatever I want. Stats were dropped because they don't add much to the game and skill advancement is still there you just don't go down a tree. Are you sure you played Diablo 3?
[QUOTE] So no, D3 has nowhere near the depth of torchlight in terms of character customization pretty much factually, and it's fine if you like it better that way but it's not going to change it being simplified and casual[/QUOTE]
It doesn't have stats but makes up for it in skill/rune combinations.
Also casual? Really? In a Torchlight II thread you are going to call another game casual? The same game whos Inferno difficulty had to be nerfed several times before most players could beat it? [I]Really[/I]?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;39074905]You can do the same in Diablo 3 though??? My monk can be a healer a tank or just raw damage dealer. The only difference is that I'm not pigeonholed into a role by skill trees. I can change what abilities I want from a list and combine those with runes to do whatever I want. Stats were dropped because they don't add much to the game and skill advancement is still there you just don't go down a tree. Are you sure you played Diablo 3?
It doesn't have stats but makes up for it in skill/rune combinations.
Also casual? Really? In a Torchlight II thread you are going to call another game casual? The same game whos Inferno difficulty had to be nerfed several times before most players could beat it? [I]Really[/I]?[/QUOTE]
You do realize you don't have to get skill A in tree X to get skill B right? I'm kinda thinking YOU didn't even play torchlight :v:.
Skills in torchlight are only restricted by level, not by what other skills you have. As for you actually trying to claim that [b]stats[/b], a system that [b]defines your characters strength and weaknesses[/b] don't add much to a game, while forcing every character to unlock the exact same skills at the same time does... oh lord, what are you doing
The [I]allocation [/I]of stats doesn't mean much, not the entire concept of stats as a game mechanic. In most action RPGs the allocation of stats is relatively straightfoward and while you have the freedom to do something silly like boost your mana as a warrior it's not really viable. Diablo 3 was designed with classes using specific stats so instead of asking your Wizard to choose between Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence it just gives you Intelligence. You can still gear for other weird stats, it just cuts out the middleman to save time for the player and developer.
As for "forcing every character to unlock the exact sames skills at the same time", I don't understand why this is a problem. You can change your skills literally at any time you aren't in combat, and combined with the runes, this gives you thousands of customization options compared to TL2s hundreds. You can argue that some of the runes don't add much if anything interesting and I'd agree but those runes are in the minority.
[editline]2nd January 2013[/editline]
Do you not know that you can change your skills in Diablo 3 :v:?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;39075045]The [I]allocation [/I]of stats doesn't mean much, not the entire concept of stats as a game mechanic. In most action RPGs the allocation of stats is relatively straightfoward and while you have the freedom to do something silly like boost your mana as a warrior it's not really viable. Diablo 3 was designed with classes using specific stats so instead of asking your Wizard to choose between Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence it just gives you Intelligence. You can still gear for other weird stats, it just cuts out the middleman to save time for the player and developer.
As for "forcing every character to unlock the exact sames skills at the same time", I don't understand why this is a problem. You can change your skills literally at any time you aren't in combat, and combined with the runes, this gives you thousands of customization options compared to TL2s hundreds. You can argue that some of the runes don't add much if anything interesting and I'd agree but those runes are in the minority.
[editline]2nd January 2013[/editline]
Do you not know that you can change your skills in Diablo 3 :v:?[/QUOTE]
That's the problem, for some reason you keep seeing the game doing it for you because you're no competent enough to choose for yourself as being... deep? What? That's the definition of casual. As for combinations, you're wrong again because the addition of stats means you'll have way more depth of character development as well as different strategies. A berserker could put a high amount into just dex and vit, making them tanky and crit often - as well as allowing them to life steal from crits (a passive skill). Their damage may still be low (because str effects how much damage crits add, and the base damage), but they'll consistently deal damage and gain life back. If not for the ability to choose where to place your stats, the strategy might not be possible because crit chance would be too low from what you could get from gear. At the very least, allowing your stats to be allocated increases the amount of viable strategies. If you want to go bog standard with your stats, you can still do that.
As for being able to change skills, that's pretty big "duh" considering I already addressed that and mentioned it's a [b]bad thing[/b]. Not that I have a problem with character respecs, but that's a poor way of handling it. The biggest problem though is that by forcing a character to unlock certain skills/runes at certain levels you're denying them flexibility until later in the game. In torchlight 2, I have 6 skills I can rank up at level 1, and that increases quite drastically over the course of the game. In Diablo 3, you just get what you're given.
[QUOTE=Elspin;39075360]That's the problem, for some reason you keep seeing the game doing it for you because you're no competent enough to choose for yourself as being... deep? What? That's the definition of casual. [/QUOTE]
"Not competent enough"? Wow. I've played Diablo 2, Titan Quest, Diablo 3, Torchlight, Torchlight 2, and Path of Exile. I think I have a pretty firm grasp on how these games work. Thanks for the massive judgement just because I prefer the way Diablo 3 skills work to Torchlight 2.
[editline]3rd January 2013[/editline]
Honestly I was going to say I was done arguing about action RPGs because it's as stupid as arguing about politics and I've wasted enough of my life doing both. With ad hominems being thrown around I guess now is a good time as any.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;39075484]"Not competent enough"? Wow. I've played Diablo 2, Titan Quest, Diablo 3, Torchlight, Torchlight 2, and Path of Exile. I think I have a pretty firm grasp on how these games work. Thanks for the massive judgement just because I prefer the way Diablo 3 skills work to Torchlight 2.
[editline]3rd January 2013[/editline]
Honestly I was going to say I was done arguing about action RPGs because it's as stupid as arguing about politics and I've wasted enough of my life doing both. With ad hominems being thrown around I guess now is a good time as any.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't calling you incompetent, sorry. I was referring to the idea that players should have their stats allocated automatically because the game somehow knows better. It's true that it's harder to fuck up your character if the game allocates the stats but at the same time it can kill your ability to build your own character. This idea is what I was referring to, the "you" did not actually mean you, it meant a player of the game in general:
[QUOTE=Raidyr]In most action RPGs the allocation of stats is relatively straightfoward and while you have the freedom to do something silly like boost your mana as a warrior it's not really viable.[/QUOTE]
In any case I'll just concede that I am wrong about everything I've said in this thread.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;39072526]I disagree, I felt like the D3 skill system was a nice change of pace from the until-then standard ARPG fare of working down a tree and getting a selection of actives and passives. Plus a lot of the abilities in D3 were really fun to use.[/QUOTE]
Besides the random insults getting thrown about, I can definitely see what you're getting at.
I like the idea of the rune system and the possibilities to explore, but I never bothered to go that far into D3's skills.
It’s a puzzling move and it took me some getting used to, but I’ll (grudgingly) admit it works.
That said, the added limits of not being able to pick multiple skills from individual categories and being
confined to six skills seems like an arbitrary step back from Diablo II.
Runes can be neat, but they’re largely hit or miss.
Some runes can be extremely useful, but many of them will never receive even a passing glance.
(If you’re anything like me you’ll find the three you like then promptly forget they exist.)
The new system is fast and functional, but I’m left to wonder why the decision to limit skills in such a severe way was made.
Using a large amount of your skills on the fly for offensive, defensive, and party buffing actions was an important part of combat in Diablo II.
With the small number of spaces for hotkeys on Diablo III‘s action bar and the limit of one skill within each category usable at a time, changing
skills in combat is not a viable action in Diablo III. You need to stick with your six chosen skills until you can change your settings in a safe location.
Attempting to change your skills in the middle of combat clogs up your screen with a view blocking menu and forces you to wait a few seconds before using the newly chosen skill.
I guess the best way to put it is to compare my experience with the Demon Hunter and the Outlander.
Once I unlocked Rapid Fire with Withering Fire and Multishot with Fire at Will for my Demon Hunter in D3 I had absolutely no desire to try any of the new skills or runes I unlocked. Those two skills were incredibly useful, covered all the bases, and were satisfying to use. Nothing else came close, so I didn't bother.
Comparatively, I tried out most of the new abilities in T2 because they were more interesting to me. I could also use any of those skills I wanted.
Being able to upgrade my passive bonuses was also pretty great.
[URL=http://filesmelt.com/][IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/kiss.png[/IMG][/URL]
Is this the part where you two kiss?
I'm just dead tired of arguing about action RPG's. I'm happy TL2 sold 1 million copies.
I said it in the last TL2 thread and I'll say it again:
So where's the editor, Runic?
I might grab this game, I really liked Torchlight. However I felt like it was a bit to tedious and the levels to lengthy. Although it looks like multiplayer could be a lot of fun and make up for it.
Haven't played it yet, waiting to finish TL1 first
Is it true you can import your TL1 character in TL2?
I heard this is fun to play with others
too bad I don't have anyone to play with so I never bought it
[QUOTE=Kuro.;39077006]I said it in the last TL2 thread and I'll say it again:
So where's the editor, Runic?[/QUOTE]
2 things are apparently getting in the way of this, they've said they're working on an early 2013 release free expansion pack of some sort for torch light 2 that'll probably come as a steam update, as well as trying to finish a full series of helpful video tutorials for the editor (which I believe is now called GUTS). It's supposed to be released soon but I think they may be working on valve time so don't get your hopes up :v:
[QUOTE=SatansSin;39079504]I heard this is fun to play with others
too bad I don't have anyone to play with so I never bought it[/QUOTE]
Username is Elspin, pretty busy lately but if you grab it I'd join you. Got a few characters that are still on their first game and could play with a new character
[QUOTE=Super Muffin;39075641]Besides the random insults getting thrown about, I can definitely see what you're getting at.
I like the idea of the rune system and the possibilities to explore, but I never bothered to go that far into D3's skills.
It’s a puzzling move and it took me some getting used to, but I’ll (grudgingly) admit it works.
That said, the added limits of not being able to pick multiple skills from individual categories and being
confined to six skills seems like an arbitrary step back from Diablo II.
Runes can be neat, but they’re largely hit or miss.
Some runes can be extremely useful, but many of them will never receive even a passing glance.
(If you’re anything like me you’ll find the three you like then promptly forget they exist.)
The new system is fast and functional, but I’m left to wonder why the decision to limit skills in such a severe way was made.
Using a large amount of your skills on the fly for offensive, defensive, and party buffing actions was an important part of combat in Diablo II.
With the small number of spaces for hotkeys on Diablo III‘s action bar and the limit of one skill within each category usable at a time, changing
skills in combat is not a viable action in Diablo III. You need to stick with your six chosen skills until you can change your settings in a safe location.
Attempting to change your skills in the middle of combat clogs up your screen with a view blocking menu and forces you to wait a few seconds before using the newly chosen skill.
I guess the best way to put it is to compare my experience with the Demon Hunter and the Outlander.
Once I unlocked Rapid Fire with Withering Fire and Multishot with Fire at Will for my Demon Hunter in D3 I had absolutely no desire to try any of the new skills or runes I unlocked. Those two skills were incredibly useful, covered all the bases, and were satisfying to use. Nothing else came close, so I didn't bother.
Comparatively, I tried out most of the new abilities in T2 because they were more interesting to me. I could also use any of those skills I wanted.
Being able to upgrade my passive bonuses was also pretty great.[/QUOTE]
You can select more than one skill from a category. You just have to enable it in the menu.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
