Jesus, the comments :v:
"VR is dying"
"It's just an expensive gimmick"
"lol, didn't take long"
Even though HTC is making losses in other fields and simply thinking of selling their VR stuff as long as it's valuable.
All HTC was to Valve is a partner. I'm sure Valve will approach someone else very quickly or just continue working on the Vive2 themselves
They've been considering this for over a year and a half
January 2016 article about them separating the Vive brand
[url]https://www.roadtovr.com/htc-considering-separating-vive-vr-into-standalone-business-report-suggests/[/url]
HTC itself is in massive debt and losing market value very fast from their failing mobile division. While the Vive sold better than expected and at cost, it's not going to keep the company afloat by any means.
Should be interesting to see what happens next and how they will exit the brand, since Valve owns the rights to most of the development, since they designed everything.
Yeah this is more about HTC as a company than VR as a business.
Its sad that people are going to use this to try and act like "VR IS DYING, I TOLD YOU ALL ALONG IT WAS A FAD, you guys just didn't listen!!!!"
HTC was fucked before they even entered the VR game, and they weren't unfucked by entering it. I don't think anything could save them, unless they effectively snuffed their own company into a small R&D company just for VR. They certainly aren't doing good with everything else. At that point though they may as well die.
No final decisions have been made and they might not choose to sell the division as well. Though it would be interesting to see what would happen to the technologies.
[QUOTE=Novangel;52612173]Though it would be interesting to see what would happen to the technologies.[/QUOTE]
Valve developed/designed the tech for the Vive. I assume their contract with HTC says that they can't sell off Valve's work willingly.
oculus is probably losing a ton of money as well. PC vr is just way too niche to be profitable atm.
[QUOTE=Novangel;52612173]No final decisions have been made and they might not choose to sell the division as well. Though it would be interesting to see what would happen to the technologies.[/QUOTE]
imagine if VR died because HTC basically screwed valve really hard some how (I don't think they can however, even if they tried), and Zenimax could actually do what they wished and basically shit on Oculus, and banned sales / took away rights or some insane crap
Neither will ever happen, but that would be the shittiest way for VR to be killed off. You'd still have PSVR but sony doesn't have the tech the other 2 have, it wouldn't exactly outright kill VR but it's certainly slow progress.
[QUOTE=bananaslamma;52612185]oculus is probably losing a ton of money as well. PC vr is just way too niche to be profitable atm.[/QUOTE]
Difference is that Facebook can afford to dump billions into something with no returns. They are investing in the future, and HTC cannot afford to do that.
i can't wait for this VR meme to die
it's just 3d with headtracking
woooahhh
edit: ignore this post, i'm a moron, please scroll down, i was just out of the loop :saddowns:
[QUOTE=bananaslamma;52612185]oculus is probably losing a ton of money as well. PC vr is just way too niche to be profitable atm.[/QUOTE]
HTC is considering selling the VR division [I]because[/I] it is profitable though.
Valve should start funding VR games like oculus is doing.
[QUOTE=Xyrec;52612191]i can't wait for this VR meme to die
it's just 3d with headtracking
woooahhh[/QUOTE]
Now that you said this I'm going to quote this post just so I can post it whenever VR hits a big release
[QUOTE=J!NX;52612196]Now that you said this I'm going to quote this post just so I can post it whenever VR hits a big release[/QUOTE]
Now that you said this I'm going to quote this post just so I can post it whenever it never happens
[QUOTE=Xyrec;52612191]i can't wait for this VR meme to die
it's just 3d with headtracking
woooahhh[/QUOTE]
Yeah well, electric cars are just "electric motors on wheels".
[QUOTE=Novangel;52612192]HTC is considering selling the VR division [I]because[/I] it is profitable though.[/QUOTE]
Oh, they are selling it to save the rest of the company. That's honestly kinda stupid, they aren't going to make a big comback in the phone market.
[QUOTE=simkas;52612202]Yeah well, electric cars are just "electric motors on wheels".[/QUOTE]
You can't really compare VR to EVs, since driving is a necessity for most people, and VR is not.
[QUOTE=Xyrec;52612199]Now that you said this I'm going to quote this post just so I can post it whenever it never happens[/QUOTE]
But it basically already happened.
[editline]25th August 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Xyrec;52612210]You can't really compare VR to EVs, since driving is a necessity for most people, and VR is not.[/QUOTE]
Yeah and you can't simplify VR to just "3d with headtracking" but you just did.
[QUOTE=simkas;52612211]But it basically already happened.[/QUOTE]
Please enlighten me
[editline]25th August 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=simkas;52612211]Yeah and you can't simplify VR to just "3d with headtracking" but you just did.[/QUOTE]
How so? That is literally all it is. Unless they have built-in headphones, then I guess they have 3D sound as well.
[QUOTE=Xyrec;52612199]Now that you said this I'm going to quote this post just so I can post it whenever it never happens[/QUOTE]
its pretty shitty of you to basically wish for a genuinely cool concept to die off just because you don't like it tbh
Imagine if I told you "I wish for this twitch.tv meme to die... its just youtube with no editting"
like what would even be the point in this :v:
[QUOTE=Xyrec;52612215]
How so? That is literally all it is. Unless they have built-in headphones, then I guess they have 3D sound as well.[/QUOTE]
Let me quote an old post
[QUOTE]
VR has a long history of being shit-canned for being terrible. Pre-Rift kickstarter VR is genuinely all pretty much either a full blown scam designed to screw parents out of money, or would never have worked because the tech wasn't even slightly good enough to have ever been even slightly playable. Its been pretty much just selling on hype and buzz-wording alone.
However people don't quite understand why VR didn't work previously. And if it needs to be detailed why previous VR didn't work to those who don't already know.
1. No head tracking, gyroscopic tech was pretty poor and emulated mice just barely. Rifts prototypes emulated mouse movement however pretty much everyone moved away from that due to it being awful. [U]Even for seated VR, room tracking changes everything.[/U]
2. Not even close to enough computing power. Resolution (and thus FoV), and framerate couldn't be nearly high enough to not make you basically puke. Even at 1200p like today its really not enough. But past VR you could get 720p which is seizure enduving trash. Mind you, you /are/ eye to eye with a screen, using lens no less, making even 2160p too 'low'.
3. Absolute shit tier to null controller tracking. The wiimotes were great for their time and did what they did pretty well, however they were a laser pointer and a gyro. If you don't have 1:1 controller tracking you're honestly just using a monitor that's taped to your face. Tracked controllers are everything with VR. Todays controllers are far better than wiimotes and rely on true tracking.
However people don't see the issues that came with previous vr. They just see how primitive older tech was and assume its a hacky solution like 'oh, you're basically using a phone gyro and wiimotes and that is VR'
Tell everyone that doesn't believe in VR that the reason VR today is amazing is because
1. Higher def and higher Hertz screens that allow you to not suffer headaches. The lens as well pretty much makes it strain free. These screens are 100% around because smart phones exist, go figure.
2. Multiple high accuracy Camera's / light sensors. Perfect tracking around anywhere in a space, which means that the hands + head are perfectly 1:1 tracked.
3. It's 'seamless', which is hard to describe but when you put it on it quite accurately represents a 1:1 3D space. You put the goggles on and you pretty much immediately are aware of your simulated area.
4. It invents new games and mechanics. I played Serious Sam blind firing around corners, a game where that literally wouldn't have ever worked otherwise. You can have genuine full 3D interaction with puzzles (Think of how Penumbra/Amnesia has puzzles, but much more effectively done with 1:1 tracking)[/QUOTE]
VR isn't even remotely "Just 3d goggles", there is way the hell more going on here than you think.
[QUOTE=J!NX;52612228]its pretty shitty of you to basically wish for a genuinely cool concept to die off just because you don't like it tbh
Imagine if I told you "I wish for this twitch.tv meme to die... its just youtube with no editting"
like what would even be the point in this :v:[/QUOTE]
I never said I don't like it. VR has just come too early IMO, the hardware required to run a decent VR setup that can run games stable at 90+ fps is just too out of reach for most people. I wouldn't mind seeing it come back in 5-10 years when hardware has gotten better.
[QUOTE=Xyrec;52612232]I never said I don't like it. VR has just come too early IMO, the hardware required to run a decent VR setup that can run games stable at 90+ fps is just too out of reach for most people. I wouldn't mind seeing it come back in 5-10 years when hardware has gotten better.[/QUOTE]
The hardware came woo early
that couldn't be more objectively far from the truth. The interesting thing about expensive hardware is that it gets less expensive as time goes on. Waiting 10 years would be totally pointless because the tech already works very well. If you used VR, you'd know exactly how well VR tracks. You'd also probably see how they're developing hardware and will improve upon what we have in time.
Just look at how many thousands of dollars 4k monitors cost. Now you can run 4k on a cheap GPU and it'll cost $400 at a high price. You can even run many games in 4k on a cheap GPU. You no longer need a 4 way sli titan set up or whatever the hell it ran on.
[editline]25th August 2017[/editline]
We're getting eye and finger tracking, we're also getting leg tracking and object tracking as well. You could theoretically even put a vive puck on a wheel and track it for seated racing games.
this shit may sound useless but we're seeing a lot of great applications in games that enhance interactivity more than you could possibly have with any other game. And unlike shitty 3d TV's or that monitor eye tracking tech it actually works and is actually being applied.
[QUOTE=Xyrec;52612215]Please enlighten me
[editline]25th August 2017[/editline]
How so? That is literally all it is. Unless they have built-in headphones, then I guess they have 3D sound as well.[/QUOTE]
No other medium comes even close to allowing people to accurately interact with virtual environments. That's more than just seeing 3D. You also have 3 dimensions of control, all completely as natural as interacting with the real world. You feel a sense of presence, socializing in a VR chat app feels like those people are actually there hanging with you. The presence allows you to more easily connect on an empathetic level to characters and stories that would otherwise be generic on a flat screen (I'm not saying that all VR entertainment right now is generic, I'm just saying it's that easy to suspend disbelief).
Even if games weren't mindbogglingly entertaining in VR, entertainment isn't the only applications it has. Creators everywhere from sculptors to graffiti artists have been given a refined space to work with their medium like they would IRL with virtually infinite resources. The creative VR community is large enough as it is and VR isn't even that old yet.
VR isn't going anywhere (aside from progression) any time soon.
[QUOTE=Xyrec;52612232]I never said I don't like it. VR has just come too early IMO, the hardware required to run a decent VR setup that can run games stable at 90+ fps is just too out of reach for most people. I wouldn't mind seeing it come back in 5-10 years when hardware has gotten better.[/QUOTE]
I think with Ryzen (cheap but very good performance for the price, having more than 4 cores being established as the new standard, etc) and the next generation of graphics cards that'll come in the next few years, it won't be out of reach for almost all PC gamers who can afford to build even a mid-end system here soon.
As a programmer I'm super excited for VR to be releasing now as even just a gimmick for those who can buy a good system and drop $600-800 on a vive. It means the tech gets refined through broader sources than an R&D lab, you get a better sample size of users and hardware. You get developers playing with it. It's literally the same thing as when we jumped from having a very narrow set of usable colour pallets, to being able to use a larger range of colours in early consoles. Suddenly graphics were this huge deal and we got these beautiful hand-drawn styles like Metal Slug becoming the norm versus the very ugly graphics we saw in the early consoles like the Atari and even many NES games. We're seeing a revolution to not just how we play, but how we experience the world we play in. It's fucking amazing.
I guess I hadn't taken all of the interaction into account. The last time I was interested in VR stuff was just after the Vive and the Oculus headset had come out, when everything was essentially just a VR scene or movie that took you for a ride.
After looking a bit more into it, being able to interact with the environment with input devices like body tracking and 360 treadmills looks pretty cool.
I guess I was just out of the loop. I no longer want VR to die. It just needs to mature. Sorry for getting this thread off topic
On the topic of hardware requirements:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foveated_rendering[/url]
I think this is going to one of the most important techs in vr going forward.
[QUOTE=Xyrec;52612260]I guess I hadn't taken all of the interaction into account. The last time I was interested in VR stuff was just after the Vive and the Oculus headset had come out, when everything was essentially just a VR scene or movie that took you for a ride.
After looking a bit more into it, being able to interact with the environment with input devices like body tracking and 360 treadmills looks pretty cool.
I guess I was just out of the loop. I no longer want VR to die. It just needs to mature.[/QUOTE]
That's the spirit
that being said its no wonder so many people shit on VR when before the kickstarter happened, around the 80's/90's it was [I]a pipe dream and a huge scam[/I] to trick parents into blowing money.
[editline]25th August 2017[/editline]
Now we actually have the tech and its great
Palmer Luckey is on reddit and Twitter right now talking about potentially purchasing Vive from HTC.
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